OT: Apple and Privacy vs. National Security

Submitted by StephenRKass on

I haven't generated any posts lately, but there's a current hot topic I'm interested in. I'm curious for info on the privacy vs. national security questions raised in recent days, between the FBI and Apple. Here's the synopsis, if you've been living under a rock. Apparently, the San Bernardino terrorist's Apple i-phone wasn't destroyed, and the FBI wants Apple to help unlock the encryption so they can presumably see a record of calls and stored information, contacts, etc.. And (edit) Tim (not Robert) Cook of Apple is refusing, suggesting that to do this would be to create a "backdoor" giving the government access to every single i-phone out there, and all the content.

I've googled this topic, and read several articles on it, but still am unsure about what to think. Here's what I don't understand. Why can't Apple unlock the phone for the FBI and assist them in getting the data off of the phone? Can't they do this without giving the FBI software that would allow for the creation of a universal backdoor the FBI could use on everyone's phone? From what I've read, the encryption is so good that even Apple can't get in . . . it would have to write new software to be able to get in. And Cook doesn't even want that kind of software written, even if it is in-house at Apple. Is that correct?

My interest is really in what Apple can do to preserve privacy, and at the same time allow for the government to do everything it can towards national security. Is it possible, or do we really have to choose between either privacy, or national security concerns? I want to have my cake and eat it too!

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SalvatoreQuattro

February 18th, 2016 at 8:49 PM ^

despite what people want to believe our government has never been ran by Stalins' and Maos'. 

 

Possessing guns is no defense against a well-trained and armed, espeically since the population is bitterly divided among racial, class, and political lines. 

Joined: 11/30/2010

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I'm Batman

February 18th, 2016 at 9:59 PM ^

There have been 1,516,863 gun-related deaths since 1968, compared to 1,396,733 cumulative war deaths since the American Revolution. That’s 120,130 more gun deaths than war deaths -- about 9 percent more, or nearly four typical years worth of gun deaths. And that’s using the most generous scholarly estimate of Civil War deaths, the biggest component of American war deaths. These stats were from August 2015.

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Yessir

February 18th, 2016 at 6:16 PM ^

Give the phone to Apple and let them open it and give back to the Government.  Don't give code to them.

 

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ska4punkkid

February 18th, 2016 at 6:19 PM ^

I find it hard to believe that giving them acces to a known criminal/terrorists phone would automatically give the government acces to ever iPhone out there. Give me a break! This is 2016 and the phone is evidence in a criminal case. There is definitely a way to unlock it without giving away a "Backdoor" to everyone else's phone.

Joined: 07/09/2015

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rockydude

February 18th, 2016 at 6:19 PM ^

This was featured on last night's town hall. The problem was that one candidate said all the government wanted was for Apple to hack one phone, no biggie. Another candidate said they wanted Apple to put a backdoor in all phones, thus weakening privacy. Bit of a difference. I have no idea how to respond, as I don't know which is the real issue . . .

Joined: 05/06/2011

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sadeto

February 18th, 2016 at 6:20 PM ^

This case has made me rethink my technology choices and I am ready to purchase my first iPhone. I went from Palm to Blackberry to Samsung, based on message management capabilities and security, but I'm sold, not just on the encryption but on Tim Cook's stance. Fuck the FBI. What do I have to hide? That's for you to find out without violating my civil liberties.

Joined: 01/17/2014

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C-Bar

February 18th, 2016 at 6:27 PM ^

Actually, maybe the path may be to go even more extreme the other way... The real Pandora's box is not Apple and the FBI but rather what should Apple etc do when faced with demands for 'cooperation' from not so nice govts or entities? (seems that's the next step since the issue is now out of the bag). Rather than a court order, such types may simply resort to physical violence (even routine torture such as to the local company rep) or coercion (such as blackmail or actual blocking markets worth billions). Rather than clamoring in the news (which only highlights this vulnerability to those not-so-nice types watching), perhaps one direction is to remove all marketing of privacy etc and go total open access - but allow each person to buy customized security packages from third party vendors (which surely will pop up once that biz opportunity is there). The 'principle' here is not confidentiality itself but rather whether such privacy regulator is a feature at the original equipment supplier level - or some other level. I can't imagine how the ceo would feel when it's not a DOJ order he's taking a stand against but rather the crying family of an ordinary sales rep overseas who is being 'jailed' until apple assists strongman X.

Joined: 12/17/2015

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Tex_Ind_Blue

February 18th, 2016 at 6:45 PM ^

Blackberry was approached by quite a few Governments to let them have a backdoor to their citizen's phones. 

Selling in China is fraught with "difficult" choices as well I suppose. So I think these companies are already dealing with this issue. FBI is not the first one to make such request. 

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Roy G. Biv

February 18th, 2016 at 6:40 PM ^

Philosophical question:  what's more important, your privacy potentially protected keeping the gubmint out of your phone, or livess potentially saved by foiling a terror plot discovered by decrypting your phone?

Joined: 09/03/2010

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gwkrlghl

February 18th, 2016 at 6:50 PM ^

and I'm far, far more likely to be shot and killed by an American than I am of being killed by a terrorist. I'm with Apple here. When you open this door, there's no going back

Joined: 04/13/2012

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MgoViper

February 18th, 2016 at 6:53 PM ^

I bet Walter O'Brien could've had access by now. He's a genius!

Even Sylvester Dodd could break that encryption!

Seriously though, I don't think that the NSA needs Apple's help to access this phone.

Joined: 05/29/2010

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legalblue

February 18th, 2016 at 6:54 PM ^

So I love this stuff because it deals with both my degrees.  I was asked to dumb this down for someone to explain both the legal and technical aspects of what's going on.  Warning many of you are gonna want to TL;DR the hell out of this.  

A little bit of  an over simplification is this:  Imagine your phone as a little safe.  It's a ridiculously sturdy safe though and there's no (reasonable) way to access the contents of the safe without the combination.  What's really nice is only you the user has a combination to the lock.  In this case law enforcement has the safe( I-phone), but can't get into it because they don't know the combination.  There's a brute force approach to try to get into the safe where you start trying every possible combination on the lock, but that could take literally years to yield any results.  The FBI went to Apple and said "hey open this safe for us."  Apple says "best we can do is try to crack this sucker the slow painful brute force way."  The FBI then went to the Court and said "We think they're not giving us reasonable assistance in cracking this lock because there's another way in and Apple won't build it for us."  You see Apple could build an "easy button."  This easy button would fit right over the lock and you just press the button and presto the safe is open.  The judge says "Hey apple it's one phone one time.  Go ahead and build the FBI that Easy Button they want because the data on this particular phone is very important.  

Apple is not a dumb company though and knows a couple things:  Once you build an easy button that button can be really easily replicated and given to other people that you DO NOT want to have the easy button.  At that point there's no use in having locks in the first place.  They also know that frankly the national intelligence apparatus is not the most trustworthy set of hombres on the planet.  There's extraordinarily little oversite and there's no guarantee that in the future the FBI won't use the easy button on other phones regardless of court order.  Also the FBI might give the easy button to the NSA or one of the other scary acronyms out there.  They aren't bound by things like the 4th amendment when they are searching peoples phones in other countries.  Apple now makes a less desirable product because it is known to be unsecure and the USA is known to collect any foreign data they can conceivably get their hands on.          

Lastly, this is not an Apple only problem.  If the FBI get's their way here it is likely to set a precedent in 9th circuit, if not the nation should the SCOTUS take it up.  If the FBI wins the government as a whole will have the ability to go to other companies and say that the court found that it was reasonable assistance to build an easy button for any system you build that uses encryption (might be a few exceptions, but lets ignore that for the moment since we're getting doomsday-ey).  

TLDR versin if the governemnt wins they gonna know what porn you looks at even if you use Tor. 

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Armbuster

February 18th, 2016 at 7:01 PM ^

The matter at hand is whether we should allow the government the capability to take any ones data, at any time, and do what they will with it, to the point of murder based on metadata - which they have proven themselves capable of. I highly recommend the op-ed written by John McAfee on the topic - as crazy as he might be, none of us know the tech world better than him.

 

Sauce: http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2016/02/the-nsas-skynet-program-may-b…

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-p…

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