Non-MGoBlog Perception of Hoke / Michigan
Reading this blog, one can get a skewed sense of how (1) more casual Michigan fans, and (2) college football fans, generally, perceive our program. Sure, we all know about the great recruiting classes brought in, the youth of the O-Line, the "empty cupboard" that both RR and Hoke inherited, but sometimes we forget that non-MGoBlog fans don't know any of this. I relate below two recent interactions that I have had in the past 24 hours:
1. The first was at a neighborhood party (live in suburban NY), at which there were a good number of college football fans, including 5-6 who root for other Big Ten teams, as well as one other Michigan fan. When the discussion drifted to college football, the comments about Hoke / Michigan were somewhat eye-opening (paraghrased below despite use of quotation marks):
"you guys got smoked again - have you guys beaten anyone good since Lloyd Carr retired"
"saw your coach on sportscenter - he looked totally lost and confused. What's his deal? Why did they hire that guy?"
"I remember when Michigan was really good - they really have sucked for a while now"
"seems like you guys get worse every year."
"can't you guys find a decent coach? Between Richrod and this buffoon, you guys pick shitty coaches."
2. At a deposition yesterday (I am a lawyer), there were four lawyers. Aside from me, there was a Va Tech fan, an ND fan and a Wisconsin fan. At lunch, we were discussing the demise of the Big Ten and the Va Tech fan was going off about how our coach comes off as clueless and over his head. ND guy, who is actually a decent guy, agreed and was saying how shocked he and his Domer friends were at how poorly Michigan played. He was saying that the consensus amongst ND fans was that given our talent, they expected more. They were particularly shocked at how minimally we used to Funch. Wisco guy agreed about Hoke, but chalked up the Michigan decline to the general decline of the conference and RichRod allowing State to raid to in-state talent in from 2008-2010.
Obviously, we here are way more informed about our team than these more casual / non-Michigan fans. But, sometimes it is easy to lose the forest for the trees. So, while all of us can probably recite the depth chart by heart, and know all of the reasons for optimism / pessimism, perhaps we are missing the 10,000 foot view of these fans, which is that Michigan is in a real decline and our coach is perceived to be way over his head.
Going forward, if we don't start to win, I think that Brandon has to take into account the real decline in the perception of Michigan in the cfb world. Even if Hoke is a great guy and the excuses are valid (I know, strong if w/r/t excuses), if we don't start to win this year, Brandon may have to consider making a change to prevent the slide in public perception of Michigan.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:48 PM ^
Hoke was a backup option. Middling results at SDSU don't put you on the short list for a premiere coaching job.
The coaching search was approaching an embrassingly long period of time because none of the first option candidates Brandon went after had any interest in running the same guantlet that RR experienced..being pilloried from the moment he arrived and then run off after only three years. What coach with lofty career aspirations would roll the dice on that situation?
Hoke was hired because the search could not go on any longer without it being completely obvious that no one wanted the job.
If Hoke gets fired at the end of this season, that may very well still be the case....
September 9th, 2014 at 5:19 PM ^
"I would have walked to the University of Michigan...."
Brandon had someone in Hoke who was very familiar with the Michigan football tradition, was aware of the high standards at UM, and someone who genuinely wanted the job.
When I think of the fact that more may be calling for Hoke's head by the end of the season, especially if Michigan loses to MSU and Ohio, it is sort of sad. This is not like the RR situation, which was a slam dunk. This had to be Hoke's lifetime achievement and dream job, and he had so many inside and outside supporters it was ridiculous and pretty much from day one. Getting Mattison to join was a huge coup as well. Hoke is paid very well and would get another job quite easily, but it would be a very sad day to break it off with him. Football coaches come to Michigan to coach and retire. They don't come to Ann Arbor to coach and be fired.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
College football is vastly different today than it was 45 years ago when Bo took over. No coach under 40 (caveat for Frank Solich types) will ever go 40-17-3 over 6 years in the MAC again because any coach with that kind of record will get picked up by a bigger school.
Don't be afraid of innovation. Bo went from the Wishbone to the Pro-I because competition dictated adaption. Recently, even stereotyped Power run offenses like MSU (Cook), Wisconsin (Wilson) and Stanford (Luck and Hogan) have athletic QBs who can extend plays with their feet. They may not be featured in any run packages but the athletic ability is there.
Football has always been adapt or die. Middle Guards become Mike Linebackers and so on.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:39 PM ^
All college football programs wind up in the toilet eventually (see Alabama, Notre Dame, USC, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Miami, Texas, Penn State and Michigan). No one is immune.
OSU would like to have a word with you please.
September 9th, 2014 at 3:43 PM ^
. . . of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic to give the passengers a better view of the Iceberg.
September 9th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 5:12 PM ^
he was an old-fashioned conservative football coach. Much of the liberal community despised him.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:42 PM ^
I never thought that way about Lloyd. He frustrated me, sure, mostly due to zone left, zone left, zone left, and his apparent inability to stop a spread offense. But overall, I loved him as a coach, and representative of the university.
September 9th, 2014 at 10:04 PM ^
Fan base warmed up nicely to Gary with his 44-13-3 record. Many contend that Carr's National Championship was really Moeller's (aka Hoke success from Rich Rod's players).
September 9th, 2014 at 4:00 PM ^
The year I started junior high was 2008.
Yeah. It was a pretty rough secondary school for me when it came to people saying things to me about Michigan. After 2010 though, that three year stretch made me so strong.
Anytime anyone said anything to me by the time I got to HS, I made them look like a complete idiot by asking simple questions.
"you're a state fan? who's their defensive coordinator?"
"name 10 players on state"
"when was your team's last conference/national title?"
By the time I was a senior during the 2013 season, no one even bothered because they knew better. If you're gonna talk shit to me, you better know what you're talking about exactly.
When Michigan finally got state in 2012 (for their first win over them since I was in 6th grade....sigh), I didn't brag and give people who gave me shit in the past, theirs. I'm better than that. I know how to carry myself when my team wins and loses. The pure smile on my face walking in on that Monday was enough. Not a word about the game unless someone brought it up.
Don't sweat the idiots. They're uninformed and not worth a snot.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
I'm with you on your first few paragraphs, mostly, and glad you can deflect. Howeva, you have on many occasions contributed to the hurr durr Sparty lulz type of threads here, which you should be conscious of...
Not sayin, just sayin.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:54 PM ^
Can you give me some examples?
September 9th, 2014 at 6:32 PM ^
I'm waaay too busy to go digging through old posts, I waste enough time on here as it is. Remind me, and maybe over the weekend I'll feel the itch...
September 9th, 2014 at 10:00 PM ^
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September 10th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 3:58 PM ^
I invite you guys to check out Magnus's take of what happened at Touch the Banner. Magnus always has excellent analysis, and this is no exception:
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2014/09/notre-dame-31-michigan-0.html
September 9th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^
I like Magnus' analysis, but his Nuss section was a little too much for me. While I think Nuss and the O didn't answer the bell (understatement of the week) especially as it pertained to making the blitz pay, I can't agree that Borges and the 2013 O "perfected" anything.
Certainly, at times, the O exploded in 2013 and those things worked "at times" but Borges is gone for a few reasons, among the biggest were an inability to be really good at anything (much less perfect) and certainly the O never succeeded in consistently slowing down aggressive Ds...even when they didn't contain studs like Day and Smith or potential studs like Jones. DG played his best game vs. ND last year (even better than OH, IMO) and it wasn't because they slowed the rush down, it was because in the face of it, he completed nearly everything he threw...and then got planted.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
but count up how many shutouts the Al Borges Michigan offense suffered. It has always been about how many points are put on the board, not how pretty it looks getting there. Tell you what, I'd trade Borges' 41 points and his sucky looking offense for the pretty boy shutout shenanigans I saw on Saturday.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:26 PM ^
This team lost a record setting WR, two high NFL draft picks at tackle, and our best running back (now a fringe NFL guy).
Borges fucked up a great opportunity. Now we're reaping the rewards of not re-stocking the cupboard, especially on offense.
Outside of Funchess, what Hoke recruit has made any real impact on that side of the ball?
September 9th, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^
He was looking pretty promising towards the end of the year. Didn't he play a pretty big factor in the OSU game?
September 9th, 2014 at 8:05 PM ^
The shutout sucks, and everyone including Nuss knows it. There was enough there, even on Saturday, for me not to suddenly be trading Borges for Nuss. That's just knee-jerk frustration.
September 9th, 2014 at 9:56 PM ^
Not sure what he felt Mike Mayock and the PBP guy were supposed to say about Michigan players. Mayock does a good job as a color guy, and yea it's Notre Dame channel, but wtf was he supposed to say?
September 9th, 2014 at 4:17 PM ^
thanks for the tip Magnus. Like your second username. Guess "Colonel Magnus" would have been a little too on the nose.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^
We all know that you are the real Magnus, but I am not fooled.
September 9th, 2014 at 3:59 PM ^
I like watching it and enjoy reading about it through the lens of the better informed here. To me though it seems as though there are several obvious glaring flaws that do not require a football intelligence to understand they are stupid. For example the length of time in huddle and lack of analysis of the defense prior to snap seems to be an obvious detriment. The play calling before the half over the past few years seemed obviously stupid. I think last year against ohio we picked up a first down on a run and then ran out the clock with enough time to get into field goal range easily. The amount of run/pass on first downs in several games has been very poorly chosen (Penn State last year and ND this year). The personnel selections of more bad offensive linemen versus more good receivers. I also do not get the sense that the coaching staff thinks these are problems.
September 9th, 2014 at 6:27 PM ^
Also our outdated punt formation! The benefits of using a spread punt formation seem so obvious that the refusal to do it is one of the most infuriating things Hoke as done.
September 9th, 2014 at 3:59 PM ^
What pains me most of all is my 10 year old son knows nothing of what truely makes Michigan Football special. This is where my pessimism comes from. I would love nothing more then to punch Brandon in the dong for turning Michigan into a money making machine rather than the championship making machine that I grew up loving, and that an entire generation will know nothing about...
September 9th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^
I feel your pain. My daughter is 11 and my son is 9.
To add to that, we're quickly approaching the time when recruits will never have witnessed UM having much success on the field.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:03 PM ^
I've wanted Hoke to succeed since the day he was introduced and now I'm sold, he'll never get it done.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^
All my Buckeye friends fear Jim Harbaugh. They were so relieved when we hired Hoke instead of him.
We had two slam dunk coaching candidates: hire Miles in 2007 or hire Harbaugh in 2010. In the end we got neither one and ended up with Carr's former defensive line coach. Seriously, The man who was "not an option" ended up being the only option for DB...
http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/profiles-in-cronyism-brady-hoke.html
September 9th, 2014 at 4:52 PM ^
We blew two semi-obvious coaching hires. Miles would have been a good chioce. Harbaugh would have obviously been a fantastic one. I think Miles was Martin's fault. I think Harbaugh just decided not to come because of SF's money bomb.
This is what happens when you strike out on your coaching hires. You end up with a program in disarray that loses 31-0 to Notre Dame.
September 9th, 2014 at 7:07 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 5:12 PM ^
that RR was a slam dunk hire they just screwed up everything else about it.
September 9th, 2014 at 6:25 PM ^
+1000
September 9th, 2014 at 4:12 PM ^
I've never really heard anything negative about Hoke, aside from the standard weight jokes, but nothing really negative directed towards him as a person. The main thing I heard over and over and still to this day is he is a .500 coach, why did Michigan hire a .500 coach?, he will only be a .500 coach and basically general non-belief that he'd be great here. I've discounted those statements time and time again, because I thought the resources at Michigan would negate those things. I'm now not certain that the rivals weren't right this whole time.
September 9th, 2014 at 7:06 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 4:22 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 4:28 PM ^
Even if she was a football coach, your mom is not a Michigan Man. No way she'd qualify for the job.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:22 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 4:26 PM ^
He's a nice guy. It's rare that nice guys finish first in the world of college head coaching. Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh - not nice guys. But they win. Bo was a nice guy in that he had class, but he was also a hard ass. Hoke is neither a hard ass nor a "not nice guy." He's just a nice midwestern guy with good morals who is in over his head.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^
The perception of Michigan by outsiders (and some insiders) may be as simple as...
OSU got Urban Meyer. We got Hoke.
September 9th, 2014 at 4:32 PM ^
I am one of those people who loves to look at everything that I wish were different and find a rational root cause and to me, Michigan's downfall has been a long chain reaction. My honest opinion, the first link was put in place on that crappy March day in 2001 when OSU grad George Steinbrenner altered the future by trading for Drew Henson and persuading him to ruin his career. The ensuing football season, prior to the bowl game when an uninspired squad was blown out, Michigan lost three games by a total of 13 points. You throw an athletic senior QB on that 2001 team instead of a pocket statue sophomore, and Michigan wins two, maybe all three of those games, including THE Game, when Tressel began building his legend in Columbus by making good on his promise made 310 days prior. Michigan maybe plays for the National Championship after that. Now, Drew Henson has no effect on subsequent seasons as he was a senior. But I feel that season was when perceptions of Michigan (which I believe, in turn, hurt recruiting) first began to slide, and obviously that could have been delayed by a few years. Some bad hires with assistants (and a couple unfortunate injuries, obviously those couldn't be helped) as Carr's reputation isn't what it was. A change in college football's dominant offensive paradigm, which he chose to ignore, plus Michigan can't beat its rival anymore (some bad luck in the Rose Bowl, too, with back-to-back losses to teams that won the National Championship the following season), and by 2006 the damage is done. Michigan finally looks "back" that year, only to fall just short on the massive stage in Columbus and then looks pretty terrible in Pasadena.
Then, of course, the events of the following September mean Michigan fans no longer just want Carr out the door, they want a complete and total philosophical change. That has a predictable outcome given how many of the "old guard" DIDN'T want that change, resulting in yet another massive overcorrection in the form of the guy standing before us today.
At least that's how I see it. A perfect storm that started with one huge missed opportunity, and can all be explained. To the casual fan, though, and rival fans of any enthusiasm level? Nope, Michigan just sucks. Hey, it is what it is.
September 9th, 2014 at 9:30 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^
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September 9th, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^
September 10th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
The secular version of Notre Dame, but with better uniforms.
EDIT: Usually.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:12 PM ^
I am as upset as everyone else about the ND loss, BUT we have the rest of the season to see what happens. I'm praying for a turn around. I'm waiting until after the MSU game to make my judgement on the season and Coach Hoke.
Don't jump off the bridge or tall building yet.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:14 PM ^
September 9th, 2014 at 5:16 PM ^
It's harder for the more hardcore fans to change because they get attached to being optimistic. But Hoke was the wrong choice for a lot of reasons. Loving Michigan as much as he does isn't a good reason, and being loved by his former players isn't enough of a reason. Dave Brandon was trying to put out the "RRod isn't a Michigan Man" fire and focused too much on those points. If you think about it, the two Michigan qualities that matter are 1)Winning football games and 2)Running a clean program. Everything else, all the other Michigan Man hoo-ha, is irrelevant.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^
bridge to the next coach and near-future success of the football program. But what you see is what you get, and it's only hard-core Michigan fans that are refusing to acknowledge: he does not acquit himself well, in front of the microphones or on the football field. We are very close to laughing stock status.
We KNOW that Dave Brandon doesn't get it. So what really frightens me is that this team improves enough to excuse Brandon keeping Hoke aboard for a long, long time to come.