M favored by 4.5, W favored by 3.5 over Iowa....

Submitted by Ezekiels Creatures on October 27th, 2021 at 9:45 AM

 

Odds

Michigan by 4.5 over MichSt

Wisconsin by 3.5 over Iowa

Tulsa favored to beat Navy worse than Cincy beat them, by 9.5

Pitt by 9 over Miami

Georgia by 14 over Florida

Neb by 7.5 over Pur

https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/odds

Moleskyn

October 27th, 2021 at 9:52 AM ^

Honestly, I'm surprised by this line. This means Michigan would be favored by a touchdown if they were playing in Ann Arbor, since home field advantage usually adds around 3 points to lines if I remember correctly. I just don't see Michigan as that much better than MSU this year. I'll be happy to be wrong!

UMForLife

October 27th, 2021 at 11:52 AM ^

I don't believe that you will believe. Just imagine, M trounces MSU by 24, somewhat similar to what happened against Wisconsin, which by the way has a way better defense than MSU. You believe it now, but next week there will be a new BPONE. Nature of being a Michigan fan for the last 20 years. :(

 

FauxMo

October 27th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^

This assumption always makes me furl my eyebrows. Does anyone really think these guys just set a line for a neutral field and then adjust it +/-3 for home field advantage anymore? Are all home stadiums built alike? Like, it is EXACTLY 3 points benefit to the home team no matter if they draw 110,000 fans every Saturday (UM), or 1,100 (EMU)? These guys are using complex statistical models to set these lines now, and I strongly doubt they include a +/-3 constant to whatever the algorithm tells them based on home field advantage. 

Golden section

October 27th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^

Lines aren't set by computers alone, there is a large human component, usually a group of smart football people. So, where the home game is, usually matters, ie The Big House vs Standford stadium.

Also the line isn't designed to pick the better  team, it's designed to attract the most even money. 

 

Interesting too the line has shifted a point in Michigan's favour.  It tells you what side is seeingmore action.

maquih

October 27th, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^

Also the line isn't designed to pick the better  team, it's designed to attract the most even money. 

 

It's both.  Every professional oddsmaker you can find on google or youtube will say this.  They are happy to pick a side if the betting public in aggregate is making a bad bet.

FauxMo

October 27th, 2021 at 4:20 PM ^

Wait, hear me out... That would be a constant, which is only used if every single team (or other unit of analysis) has the exact same value on a variable. They almost certainly do something much more complex, like compile decades worth of data and see, based on both more distant and more recent past results, how much home advantage (relative to their away game and neutral field performance) a team actually enjoys. That value will vary across teams, probably quite radically. Indeed, I am sure there are some teams who perform worse over the course of one or more seasons at home. 

Want to see if I am right? Go get the past results for a few teams (say, all the B1G) over a few years. Compile all their points earned and given over those seasons, differentiating home and away games. I will bet you an infinite amount of money that you do not find that any one team (let alone all of them) are precisely +3 in the margin between those two numbers at home vs. away. If they are not, then the +3 constant idea everyone seems to take for granted is silly, and not being used in advanced statistics. 

FreddieMercuryHayes

October 27th, 2021 at 10:19 AM ^

Vegas isn't an advanced stat entity that's trying to get the score correct.  They do risk management.  They set a line they think will balance out both sides of betting and then move it depending on where more money is being placed.  If a lot of people are like "WOOO I LOVE UM" and put money on UM, then they'll move the line because of that.  It's probably not big since professional gamblers throwing a lot of money will pick on that, but it's not insignificant either.

Red is Blue

October 27th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^

Almost never fails that when a betting line post is made someone will try to assert that Vegas is trying to accurately predict the score (or some variant thereof) and someone else will correctly point out that Vegas could care less whether their prediction is accurate, they are simply trying to get even money on both sides.

FauxMo

October 27th, 2021 at 11:04 AM ^

You know who else does risk management? Actuaries. You know what tools actuaries use literally more than any other? Advanced statistics. We can go back forth about the goal of Vegas in setting lines (i.e., predicting scores, getting money on both sides, etc.), but if you think billion-dollar casinos and sports books are NOT using advanced statistics to determine the lines for these games, you are smoking more meth than Jessie did after Walter let Jane die of a heroin overdose. 

FreddieMercuryHayes

October 27th, 2021 at 11:18 AM ^

FEI and SP+ don't move based on what twitter thinks the score will be.  Vegas will move their line based on what bettors think the score will be.  I'm sure the line makers in Vegas know all the advanced stats as well, but they don't just plug everything into a computer and let it ride when taking bets either.  That would probably be bad risk management.

FauxMo

October 27th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^

I said "set lines." Who mentioned them moving lines based on what Twitter says? They set these lines a week before the games start (and in some cases, long before that). The lines move organically and are adjusted due to money flows to one side or another, injury reports, changes in weather forecasts, etc. But to set the lines, they rely heavily on statistical models. 

I did 5 minutes of Internet research and found a company called CG Technology. Here is what they do: 

"One such example is CG Technology, a Las Vegas-based odds consulting firm. CG Technology primarily provides odds and lines for brick and mortar sportsbooks in Nevada. They list illustrious sportsbooks such as the Palms, the Hard Rock Hotel, and the Cosmopolitan as clients. However, similar services with comparable operational structures (like Don Best, mentioned above) provide odds for online sportsbooks.

Companies like CG Technology incorporate proprietary algorithms and data analysis methods into their odds and line generation. Yet, they claim to balance data analytics, the unique customer tendencies of their clients, injuries, and price comparisons before releasing their lines."

 

DavidP814

October 27th, 2021 at 12:03 PM ^

FauxMo is right. I think it's widely understood that the end goal of Vegas is to get an exact 50/50 split for every game, because then Vegas makes 5% of the total action that week. What some people don't get is that a 50/50 split is best achieved by setting an opening line that is as accurate as possible to avoid heavy, unbalanced professional action on 1 side that opens a liability for the casino.

Another thing ppl like FreddieMercuryHayes and Red Is Blue get wrong is equating the betting influence of a singular fan base like Michigan with the "Public" as a whole. Public perception is a factor in line setting because the aggregate amateur money on any given football weekend is a material portion of the total action. But any single fan base will be (at most) 2-3% of the total amateur handle, so the "WOOO Michigan" sentiment by itself isn't enough to move a line.

Red is Blue

October 28th, 2021 at 10:08 PM ^

No problem with someone critizing me for something I actually said.   But I didn't say what you implied i said about the influence of a single fanbase.  I simply agreed with the point that Vegas wants 50/50 money.  They don't really care if they make an accurate prediction. 

For a hypothetical example, suppose that Vegas has secret information that leads them to a different, more accurate, prediction.  The "vegas method" predicts that Michigan wins by 10, while the general consensus is Michigan wins by 4.  The line would be set at 4, even though 10 is a more accrurate expectation.  Again, a hypothetical example, because it is highly unlikely that the secret information held by Vegas doesn't seep out into the general consensus bringing those expectations together.  Very likely the they are very close, but Vegas wants to predict what the general consensus will be (to get 50/50 money) not what the score will be.

Red is Blue

October 27th, 2021 at 10:46 AM ^

If the home field is generally worth 3 points then would Michigan be favored by around 7 points on a neutral field (4.5 points spread plus MSU loses 3 pt home field advantage) and 10 points at Michigan (4.5 spread plus MSU loses 3 pt home field plus Michigan gains 3 pt home field)?  Or does the approximate 3 pt home field advantage relative to if you were playing on your opponents field.

That being said, in recent years, it appears as if there is a home field disadvantage in this game as the away team has frequently won.

maquih

October 27th, 2021 at 2:26 PM ^

State isn't that great.  Like yes, we are all well aware of our team's weaknesses but MSU has them too.  And their biggest strength, the run game, has totally disappeared at times.  Our running game has been what has won close games for us.   We're likely to win, but of course, that's why they play the games.

Eng1980

October 27th, 2021 at 5:31 PM ^

Agreed.  The better team doesn't always win.  State is a good team but Michigan has looked better against better competition.  MSU/Tucker make you pay for mistakes as they are known for big offensive plays and not for grinding down the field. IF, IF, IF Michigan limits big plays then they are likely to win.

Midukman

October 27th, 2021 at 10:10 AM ^

Sounds about right although I’d rather be an underdog. I also think Iowa plays inspired and thumps Wiscy. Could care less about the other games honestly. 

The Homie J

October 27th, 2021 at 10:55 AM ^

 I also think Iowa plays inspired and thumps Wiscy

If Wisconsin keeps Mertz to under 8 passing attempts (or less if possible), then Wisconsin will win this game.  Their run game is finally coming alive and that defense is so good that they can compete with better teams even if their offense is a clown show.  Iowa's offense is similarly awful and their defense is starting to come back down to Earth as team's stop throwing picks right at their secondary.  Wisconsin simply needs to pound the rock on every play and never let Mertz have a chance to give the ball away.