Ticket Watch for the Ages Comment Count

Seth January 5th, 2024 at 10:08 AM

Sponsor Note: Thank TicketIQ, our longtime ticket sponsors, and specifically Greg Cohen, who's the reader there who's been like "I am throwing money at you; please write a Ticket Watch." Greg is also throwing money at YOU:

Promo code MGO100 is live for $100 off any order of $1,000 or more. If tickets drop under $1,000, we still have MGO50 live.

The thing about TicketIQ is the price they say is the price you pay. This makes a big difference for an expensive game like this, because the fees get jacked. Small percentages turn into very large amounts of money quickly.

Anyway if you're going to buy a ticket on the secondary market, always try our friends first. Greg even said you can reach out to him personally at [email protected] if you find a better deal on the same seats.

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A funny thing happened for the Rose Bowl. When I last checked a few hours before the game there were still over 1600 seats available. And they were still--incredibly--priced in the $1400s. The way bowl game economics almost guarantees a shocking price when the market opens, a sharp rise as the people who just decided to go have to get their travel plans in order, and then an exponential downward slope to the finish as the brokers slowly fish for buyers.

The Rose Bowl was acting like that, then the prices went UP at the end. And yes, there were still empty seats, reportedly hundreds of them, at the Rose Bowl. Why this happened is an important question because it matters a great deal to how we strategize for the National Championship.

Because--oh yes--we are going to the ship.

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Tag yourself

[After THE JUMP: How the system works, and why you're struggling to beat it].

CHAMPIONSHIP SEATS

I know it's counter-intuitive but we're RED on this map. Remember Roses are RED and Michigan beat Alabama in the ROSE Bowl.

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It's not guaranteed but you're more likely to find seats sold by other Michigan fans in Michigan sections. Prices are about 10% higher on the Michigan side, which tells you what the difference in demand is.

Right now there are about 7,100 tickets, which Greg said is 200 off the high mark of the week. Inventory got as low as 4,400 on Wednesday, but the allotments have begun getting assigned, and 3,000 tickets hit the market over the last two days. Greg notes that most of the movement in price will happen with those middle seats; over the last two seasons the average price dropped about 5% between the Friday before the game and gameday, while the get-in price basically stayed flat over that same period.

HOW THEY FILL A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

The first thing you need to know is that the system is rigged against you. As you are probably aware to some degree, most of the seats for bowl/Playoff games are allotments to the teams that are going. The price is set based on what they think the market will bear, and the teams have to buy them at that price, so the only way you're going to this game on a ticket that hasn't already been purchased one time is if you're getting in on behalf of the school that got it for you.

Here's what those tickets look like coming out of the oven:

$475: Upper deck endzone
$575: Upper deck corner
$675: Upper deck sideline
$800: Upper deck middle
$900: Upper deck loge
$1,050: Lower Bowl Endzone
$1,300: Lower Bowl middle

STEP 1: THE SCHOOLS

The vast majority of tickets (there are always some VIPs: NCAA brass, some of host stadium's big whigs, etc.) are allotted to the schools, and we are told it's 50/50. First off, schools do NOT always purchase their entire allotments. In crappier bowls there's a minimum they have to buy, and they rarely buy more, but even in the big ones you'd be surprised how many get released back for the other team to increase their share. Alabama turned down about 15 percent of the tickets they could have purchased, according to our Rose Bowl guide, and this is pretty normal. Michigan had first right of refusal and jumped on them we were told, which was why both endzones seemed to be Michigan's.

They're on the hook for those seats, and they don't make much money selling them to their loyal customers. They do have to take care of *SOME* of their loyal season ticket holders, at least enough to create the appearance that being a season ticket holder can get you one of the good seats for the game. The few lucky people with loads of points and donations and regular appearances at things will get a chance to gobble up these seats at basically wholesale prices. They are good people to know too, because those are going to be most of the best seats.

Also, they just got their seats. People who put in through the athletic department have just started getting their assignments. They put in their credit cards, and Michigan took their money, but as of Thursday night the vast majority weren't issued yet, which means the fans themselves aren't participating in the secondary market at all.

Who is then? The brokers.

STEP 2: THE BROKERS

The mega brokers deal directly and often exclusively through the school, e.g. Michigan works with On Location (disclosure: an MGoBlog advertiser). About half of the seats in a game like this will end up in the hands of a few brokers in charge of disseminating the seats to the public.

You'd think if half of the building goes on sale at once the price would be much closer to will of the market, but you're forgetting a key ingredient: The sellers set the price. And if two or three entities are holding 30,000 seats between them, they have a lot of power to dictate what the buyers pay.

Because the secondary market is mostly driven by the get-in price, the brokers don't focus on plum seats. They do get chunks in all the sections, but a large swath of their share are the nosebleeds. These "consolidators" now get to operate a monopoly on the "I just want to get in for the lowest price" part of the fanbase, which is most of the fanbase. They set the price of the get-in as high as they can imagine (and they can imagine quite a bit), set the other sections super-high, then slowly drip-drip-drip those seats out through the ticket sites, who tack on crazy fees.

Brokers had the seats up for sale for awhile, because the same brokers do business with all of the schools that could be going. So you will see a few seats for sale from Texas fans and whatnot who jumped on broker seats in the last few weeks. But they were already in the same trap as you, several steps removed from the original ticket allotment.

Now before you go "That's Evil!" the brokers aren't getting that much from their seats; they're getting raked by the schools. Here's what those seats look like when they're picked up by the brokers.

  • 6 seats in Section 618 Row L (goes up to N): $1,207.80 each
  • 12 seats in Section 623 Row N: $1,313.20 each
  • 8 seats in Section 607 Row M: $1,351.00 each

These are all upper-deck corner or endzone, almost to the top of the stadium, and there are rows upon rows of them. As a ticket broker, your job is to try to make your margins selling these at a markup until you take a loss on the rest. They're going to take a loss on some of them. But say they sell that group of 12 for $1600 today. That's a $3,441.60 profit, enough that could sell the rest at wholesale and not sell two of them at all and still turn a profit. Operating at these scales it's better to have a few unsold than to price too low. These are on TicketIQ right now, after fees. I can't guarantee they're the same seats we saw on the wholesale site:

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Someone already picked up a pair of the 607 Row Ms. The group of 12 seems to have set the brokers back but they're a good gamble sometimes because big groups have few options. The more interesting action is on the markup for Section 607, which is on the 40 yard line, and considered an "A+ Deal" by the reseller's algorithm. That's because the math is saying the good seats will go first, while the bad seats are purposefully overpriced to inflate the whole market.

The steady flow keeps the market moving. Over the course of the week they drip-drip-drip tickets down so there's always something a little bit cheaper than the rest for someone to think "Oh, I just got the best deal!" What you've actually done is hit the edge of the iceberg and come away with a glass of meltwater.

STEP 3: THE FANS AND WHY THE ROSE WENT UP LATE

So you can see why we're all kind of in the same boat, even if we pour all the savviness we can into strategizing how to buy tickets.

Sometime soon if not already (they don't want it to be predictable) the fans who got their seats directly from the schools will begin to put them on the market. These will pop up in little bits, but every effort is taken to make sure they are not really competing on the same level as the brokers. If you list your tickets, depending on the site, you're acceding to the site getting a cut. You're also acceding whatever you've spent in donations and seat licenses to be in position to get those seats in the first place. And you probably weren't getting them to

Those seats are a commodity though, which is the one thing Team Buyers has going for us. Until a minute before kickoff they have a thing we want. Once the sites stop selling the sellers eat the overhead. And because of this the advice for every bowl game I've heard a thousand times is WAIT WAIT WAIT YOU DUMMY WAIT. I was saying the same for the Rose tickets, and so were people who know a lot more than I do.

Working against us is, well, us. We're not one entity; we're all competing for a seat, and a lot of us are making our travel plans contingent on getting something affordable. But in the case of Michigan fans--and here's where I think I went wrong with the Rose Bowl--we're a savvy bunch. I mean, our biggest website has a column devoted to ticket economics. We've been going to bowl games (at least some of us; I haven't been to many) for years, and know the WAIT YOU DUMMY strategy better than most. And Alabama fans have been to these big-ticket neutral games dozens of times. So you've got two fanbases who've trained their brains to do the smart thing and wait until gameday to buy their tickets on the secondary market, and what happens: They get to gameday and it's a seller's market!

My best guess as to what happened was a lot of smart fans decided to wait until the last minute, and that kept the get-in market dripping at its drippy pace right up until gametime. This resulted in lots of inventory left at the end, which should have depressed the market, but such high returns on all the seats the brokers sold that there was no point in crashing the market at the end just to chase the final bits. Using our glacier analogy: they had it priced to run out of ice at kickoff, but with fans removing the meltwater so quickly it never actually got to the drop.

Alabama's behavior also may have created an extra glut of secondary tickets. Rather than opening more seats to their season ticket list I believe Michigan chose to gamble they could make some extra money on the wholesale market, and did so. This meant a greater portion of seats than usual were frozen behind the monopolistic price wall, with a smaller proportion for the fans to be trading. Even a little p2p trading can really move the market, usually downwards.

WHY THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE ROSE BOWL

1. That was a unique game that combined the Rose Bowl, Alabama, and starved Michigan fans. It ended up being one of the greatest games of the century at the greatest football venue in the land.

2. There isn't a month to get tickets. Most of the people going to the Rose Bowl got their tickets squared away in early December, and then a small portion of the stadium was still trading for the next few weeks. For this one everybody's jumping in together, including the sellers. The wider the market, the more reactive to market forces it has to be, and that favors the side that isn't trying to game the market, IE us.

3. Flights are the real bottleneck for this one. That wasn't the case for the last one. The Rose Bowl was on a national holiday, with the kids on Christmas Break for the week before (and in many cases after). Fans were able to spread out their trips, stay further from the stadium, choose from more local airports, and fly in and out on many different days. With this game you had a glut of people booking a finite number of specific flights and trying to make it work for a Monday night of a work week. Whatever glow the Natty has over the Rose, adding work days when you just came off break to a trip to Houston is not the same as vacationing in LA the last week of December.

Adding to this: there aren't as many Michigan fans in Houston. LA has a massive Michigan presence, which we point out every time the basketball team gets seeded in the Pacific bracket, and all of those people were immune to the flight situation. We do have fans in driving range of Houston--they're everywhere--but if MGoBlog readership is any indication of where Michigan fans live, the Southern California contingent is more than three times that of Houston-DFW-Austin combined (which is a much wider area). LA vs Houston is 8-to-1.

4. The last one was for pleasure; this time we're here on business. There were plenty of younger fans at the Rose Bowl. Not a huge one, but more than at any rivalry game in Ann Arbor the last few years. I think the parties shrank with this one as kids were back in school, and there wasn't a Disneyland nearby to make it a trip. Seats are selling in 2s and 3s, not 4s and 6s.

STRATEGY?

I think you can wait for them to come down. I'm less certain than I used to be, and keep in mind that the brokers are better at getting their margins than you are at getting them to feel desperate. If you can stomach it, buy on Monday afternoon. In the meantime, keep watching TicketIQ (don't forget your $100 off code) and our message board, and make sure you're in good with that uncle who always gets seats for things.

Comments

kyeblue

January 5th, 2024 at 10:25 AM ^

ticketiq seems to be exactly the same site as tickpick, except about $50 more expensive for the same ticket. If the coupon works, then you save if buy a single ticket, same buying two tickets, and cost more if buying 3 or more. 

Ferg0dsakes

January 5th, 2024 at 10:26 AM ^

It also sucks that Michigan isn’t in the home locker room, so the WR core could roshambo for Nico Collins’ locker… and have the freshman poo in CJ Stroud’s locker (& Noah Brown/Cam Johnston).

DaftPunk

January 5th, 2024 at 10:27 AM ^

This is like a UFR of ticket sales. 
 
I start off interested, become fascinated by the details, then my brain goes numb and I think "Damn! Fine effort, but I need another cup of coffee, and I'm glad I have no skin in this game to where I actually have to understand it."

LeCheezus

January 5th, 2024 at 10:28 AM ^

My brother and I jumped right after the Rose Bowl.  It was a bad idea, and we overpaid.  But if we win, I highly doubt we’ll ever feel sad for not getting the best possible deal.  Living thousands of miles from AA, our Michigan in game experiences are home games against OSU and potential once in a lifetime games like this.

 

J. Redux

January 5th, 2024 at 10:55 AM ^

I appreciate that TicketIQ is a site sponsor, and I've tried to patronize them in the past, but for peer-to-peer sales, they're often not competitive, as they just don't have the name recognition (and thus, peer-to-peer inventory) of a StubHub.

Where I draw the line is dealing with companies that don't even give you an option to include the fees during the seat-selection process.  (And, yes, StubHub's "estimated fees" are sometimes inaccurate, and I've aborted StubHub purchases when they were off by more than a couple of dollars, but they're usually close enough).

But, as far as the ROI on their marketing investment goes -- if they weren't a sponsor, I'd probably never have heard of them, nor would I probably ever have purchased from them.  So even if I don't end up buying this ticket through their site, the sponsorship works. :)

TESOE

January 5th, 2024 at 11:00 AM ^

It would be nice to have an open source market on MGoBlog, but simplicity of a thread is fine.

Buying single games as soon as they are released to the trap games is my new MO. Saw Illinois that way last year and Maryland on the fifty this year.

Leaning on family for the ship. So sorry about missing the Rose Bowl, but it gave the cred required to pay the way to Houston! Go Blue!

mp2

January 5th, 2024 at 11:57 AM ^

Yeah, we live in Louisville. I buy tickets at Indiana, at Purdue, and some Cardinal games just to see football. I get emails from them all. I think I even got a phone call from Indiana once asking if I was buying a ticket again. I told them I'm just interested when Michigan is there. They're like, "Had to ask."

sharklover

January 5th, 2024 at 2:49 PM ^

I was right at the corner of the north end zone where the Michigan section bled into the Alabama section. I had a very loud, very drunk Alabama fan with a group of his buddies right across the aisle from me. I enjoyed the back and forth taunting all game, as I am also very vocal, and was slightly drunk. But I lost my mind when they no called the late hit on JJ out of bounds. The bama guy got in my face at that exact moment, and I was a half beat away from cold cocking him.

J. Redux

January 5th, 2024 at 10:50 AM ^

I suspect this analysis is mostly spot-on, and I intend to continue to wait for my ticket.  That said, there's a bit of an interesting psychological phenomenon with this game that I suspect may end up keeping average prices higher but could drop the get-in price a bit more than usual.

For those of us who checked the prices after the Rose Bowl -- and that's going to be a lot of the Michigan buyers -- it's impossible not to notice that you can now get lower-bowl corners for less than what the get-in price was at 9 PM EST on 1/1.  I think that's going to cause a shift toward the better inventory that you might not have seen without that pricing effect.  A $2400 ticket for a good seat doesn't seem as expensive when the idea was planted in your mind that you'd have to pay $2600 for a nosebleed seat.

I suspect a lot of people with the means subconsciously expanded their budget when they saw those Longhorn-fan-inflated prices, and I don't know how likely that is to reset itself.

IMO, if you're looking for a lower-bowl seat, keep waiting, but check frequently and be willing to pounce on a deal that fits your budget.  If you're looking for the lowest get-in price, I agree with Seth -- wait as long as you have the stomach.

Finally, keep in mind that if you're wandering around the NRG gates without a ticket, ticket resale is legal in Texas, but there's a city ordinance prohibiting resale on public property.  If you just want to be there to revel in the glorious victory, you may find in-person sellers willing to take deep discount prices after kickoff.  Just, as always with electronic tickets, be wary of fakes.

Gavia immer_MI

January 5th, 2024 at 11:05 AM ^

For the life of me, I'll never understand why people pay these prices for generally not great seats, to fight the crowds, overpriced food and drinks, long commercial breaks with piped in music, and lack of commentary/replay from tv. I respect that people like the in-person atmosphere, I just can't wrap my head around it. I also never watch a game live, so I know I'm the weirdo.

stephenrjking

January 5th, 2024 at 11:26 AM ^

The prices themselves? No way I can justify that where I am. But many people have paid four figures for an "experience" of some kind - say, a vacation that involved a week or more of a hotel stay - and this is just another version of that, perhaps slightly shorter or more expensive.

To be at an event like this is amazing. There's just something special about it. The 97 Ohio State game remains the pinnacle sporting event I've ever attended, and it's just absolutely wonderful. Still. I tell my kids about things like that incessantly. 

For those who have invested money to experience Michigan or other sporting events, who have the money to spend here, it's a lot, but I get it. And if I were in a position for it, I'd try, too. 

sharklover

January 5th, 2024 at 8:53 PM ^

If it wasn't a week night, and if I had a month to arrange a trip, like I did for the Rose bowl, I'd probably overlook the crazy prices. But nothing about logistics of the championship seem appealing. Further, I have no interest in going to Houston, or the whole state of Texas. 

GeraldFord48

January 5th, 2024 at 11:49 AM ^

I certainly respect that view! For me, there's something about being physically present for a key sporting event and being part of that crowd that I am willing to pay for. It makes me feel like I am part of the history coming alive at that moment! And I recognize that I am paying for that, and that it will mean I am also dealing with all those downsides you mention.

schreibee

January 5th, 2024 at 1:42 PM ^

I've lived in the Bay Area since the 80s. I attend generally 1 Michigan game per season, almost always a non-conf or doormat game. What this strategy loses in gameday atmosphere it gains back in my having attended only 1 loss in ~40 years! (Wiscy 2010, tix were a gift...🤷‍♂️)

I also dvr every game and generally start it 30 minutes after kickoff, with the goal of being caught up by halftime, then repeating the process in the 2nd. Almost never watch an ad until the final 2 minutes of a game (and God how painful that is! How did those at the game bear the bama OT possession?!)

So all that said, I clearly get Gavia not attending many home games, much less dealing with flights, hotels and ticket brokers for a bowl game.

What I don't understand is feeling that way, yet reading an article on ticket brokers & road attendance logistics anyway, just to comment that you can't understand why people would bother?

Are you serious here dude?! You're more than a weirdo! And less than a fan...

How many times has Michigan played for the National Championship in your lifetime? If you're any younger than 75 then the answer is once! One other time!

So you & I can watch on TV, delayed some maybe even. But please STFU about people that want to go be a part of this!

Go Blue! 

Gavia immer_MI

January 5th, 2024 at 5:03 PM ^

Aren't you a joy. It's interesting that you can't understand why I would read this article and make that comment. I read to find out the truth behind the ticket prices. That's how you learn. And it's ok to do said learning and not want to participate. I wasn't poo pooing on any either. In fact, I said I totally respect people who go to these games, but it isn't for me. My comment urged those with memorable game day experiences to chime in, which I guess is what I was looking for. An better understanding of why people pay to go to games. 

But good job internet policing.

1VaBlue1

January 6th, 2024 at 11:50 AM ^

"Are you serious here dude?! You're more than a weirdo! And less than a fan..."

This is way overboard, and is a personal attack that is unnecessary.  "...less than a fan" because he'd rather watch on TV, or because he read one of the (relatively) few pieces of content we've had this week about the CG?  Who cares that he read something about a topic he may not ever participate in?  I read about astrophysics sometimes, so how could you possible understand why since I'm not an astrophysicist or mathematician?  What a stupid fucking take that is...

ca_prophet

January 5th, 2024 at 4:58 PM ^

Like anything else, you have to decide if it's worth the blood and treasure you'll spend.  There are people on this blog who will drop what I consider to be off-putting amounts of time and money on their hobbies (and I'm sure that they'd say the same about me).

Having been to two Rose Bowls (Give It To Wheatley! and The Sacking Of Navarre), I can say that for the right game at the right time, it's worth it to me.  It's an experience I'm glad to have had.  I chose not to do the drive-down-with-cash-and-find-a-ticket experience for this game, because that wouldn't have been worth it now ... but I'm a little wistful because being in the stadium, with all those other fans, after Michigan.Came.Back.In.A.Bowl.Game(!) and Beat.ALABAMA.In.The.Rose.Bowl(!!) in OT(!!!) for their first CFP win ever(!!!!) would have been quite the feeling.

 

stankoniaks

January 5th, 2024 at 11:26 AM ^

Anyone know what sections the two bands will be in? Saw a pair but on a seat view site, saw pics of that section often having the band.  Didn’t want to be stuck behind them.

Also anyone familiar with what the Bullpen sections that say standing for the most of the game is likely?

mGrowOld

January 5th, 2024 at 11:32 AM ^

Thanks Seth for the excellent analysis. FWIW I'm still waiting and as much as I want to sit on the Michigan side of the field, the pricing and the seat selection over on the Huskies side of paradise is much, much better.

Wait you dummy, wait.   

Well Were Waiting GIFs | Tenor

bluesong

January 5th, 2024 at 11:35 AM ^

Stellar article. I've been forwarding this to my friend who are not Michigan fans and have no interest in going to the game - it's just really fascinating by itself.

Niels

January 5th, 2024 at 11:50 AM ^

Great write up, Seth. As someone who always loved game theory in econ grad school, I'm very interested in it beyond my interest in going.

A couple of things I noted as well that I think may impact people's preferences/decisions

1) Flights were actually much less for me than I expected, and actually tipped me over into the "let's try and do this" camp. This I think is due to two factors: my origin (Boston) wasn't DTW and that Texas is somewhat unique in that you have 2 large airports in IAH and San Antonio along with Austin to form a triangle that handle a ton of spillover traffic within a reasonable drive from each other, not to mention DFW which is still within reasonable range imo. 

2) For the same reasons (I think), I have found lodging and transportation (rental car etc) to be pretty reasonable as well.

Finally, I think that there is/will be a fair number of people seeking to leverage their package tickets to "trade up" to better seats in the lower bowl, or at least more (in a shorter period of time) than the Rose Bowl.  I would guess that they would likely hold out until around the time of their flight or later to get what they can, which I suspect will have a modest impact on the "in the door" and "I can actually read the players numbers" seats in opposite directions.

 

 

 

CLord

January 5th, 2024 at 12:04 PM ^

I'm flying all the way from Bolivia for this after the Rose Bowl glory!  I'm 3-0 at the Rose Bowl for Michigan now - 89, 93, 24, so bringing this good luck charm to Houston!  Go Blue!