jmblue

January 28th, 2018 at 5:49 PM ^

That's not necessarily a good thing.  A university president is the de facto spokesperson and can take some heat off an embattled employee.  Ditto for the AD.  With Simon/Hollis gone, they now have to face the media firestorm themselves.  

And then there is the issue of having to soon deal with an interim president, who has a chance to demonstrate to the outside world that he/she is in control of things.  The MSU scandal is nationwide (even international) news at this point.  Doubling down behind the two coaches is tricky. 

I don't think either will be fired outright, but will likely "retire" in the coming weeks.

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102887

FauxMo

January 28th, 2018 at 5:27 PM ^

You are literally out of your mind if you think Izzo, Dantonio, or ANYONE at MSU, for that matter, is going to have "control over the investigations." We are way, way past that point. The Feds, the AG, the State Police, etc., are all involved now. Izzo's reputation, prestige, etc., will play NO part in what happens now. 

Joined: 06/17/2010

MGoPoints: 137610

FauxMo

January 28th, 2018 at 9:26 PM ^

I get your point. But at this point, Izzo will have virtually no ability to "pull levers" and have things taken care of by a loyal cadre of folks on campus (fixers, so to speak), mainly becuase the entire MSU bureaucracy is being "disintermediated" from the investigation. So whether Izzo is there or not there is almost completely irrelevant. I am virtually certain that this will now work much more like a hostile federal investigation of a company - documents will be demanded, courts will decide who gets what documents, key people will be deposed, statements will be made, etc. There will be no space for Izzo to wink and nod and get a document withheld or buried. Again, that is virtually impossible at this point. 

Joined: 06/17/2010

MGoPoints: 137610

TrueBlue2003

January 29th, 2018 at 1:36 AM ^

for each other withing the AD for a long time. There won't be any documentation of whether Izzo or Dantonio were involved in investigations so it'll take someone from within, that had direct knowledge (like the lawyer that supposedly told Allswede that Dantonio handled it with a phone call) of their involvement to testify against them.

If they've already stepped down, then lying won't save their jobs so people might as well tell the truth. If they haven't stepped down, maybe people will think they can save their jobs or they may be (justifiably) concerned the mob (Spartan Nation) isn't going to be too happy with any snitches.

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

gruden

January 28th, 2018 at 9:56 PM ^

The whole dam is already breaking at MSU, with or without these coaches. 

Whatever loyalty you envision existing will instantly evaporate when MSU employees start giving depositions, appearing in legal procedings, and making plea bargain deals to save their own skins.  Makes zero difference if Izzo or Dantonio are there or not.  Armies of lawyers, the AG, and even the Feds will pick the bones clean.

No one at MSU has control.  It more like rats abandoning ship now.  Izzo and Dantonio don't want to go, but at some point it won't be up to them.  I'd be shocked if either of them coach another season, we'll see.

Joined: 04/29/2016

MGoPoints: 6063

jdcarrtax

January 28th, 2018 at 10:13 PM ^

At least outside of EL.

He has to answer this question; In the face of publicly available information, why did he allow (actully, desire) scumbags like Walton, Payne and Appling stay in the program? The world outside EL now sees him as we do; a win-at-all-costs type that places the welfare of his program above that of abused women.

Joined: 10/31/2009

MGoPoints: 196

ijohnb

January 28th, 2018 at 6:14 PM ^

to start anything with anyone with this, and I am not going to die on this hill, but I don’t think it is appropriate to say truly deeply disparaging things about Izzo and/Dantonio in terms of their core human worth. It sounds like these men allowed personal achievement to override their decency and virtue, and that is tragic and will tarnish and follow them until they die. I really don’t think we need to be the people who call them “miserable fucks.” It is classless and vulgar. It is important to remember that while they are embroiled in different chapters of the same scandal, Izzo is not Larry Nassar. Like, not remotely in the same galaxy. When I see Izzo right now I see a broken person who truly knows he has blown everything, and can’t get it back. I don’t feel a bit of sympathy for him right now but neither do I want or need to stomp the life out of him. These guys are screwed and they should be. They will never be the same and they shouldn’t be. But I don’t think we need to dance on their gravestones. At that point we really are acting out of “rivalry” and I don’t think it is a good look to go there.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

DetroitBlue

January 28th, 2018 at 7:58 PM ^

see, i think ‘miserable fucks’ is a perfectly accurate descriptions of those two pieces of shit. they are both fathers and played/supported guys who raped students at the university they are supposed to represent. and they’ve either delusionaly or cynically held themselves out as old school disciplinarians. those fucks deserve every thing they have coming (and more, way way more)

Joined: 07/02/2008

MGoPoints: 30311

DairyQueen

January 29th, 2018 at 4:10 AM ^

i mean yeah, these guys deserve what they get, but it's the righteousness that makes the more thoughtful of us cringe and grimace

the statistics show that 1 in 4 women on college campuses are sexually assaulted (anecdotal, but literally every girl I've dated has their story--none went to the police)

it's estimated the 95% of Rapes go unreported, due to re-living trauma, fear of further retribution, and shame, and distrust of police officers (i dated a girl in college who was raped in high school, and then in police investigation was raped by the investigator, she was 15. go look at the statistics for Domestic Violence in police officers, it's 40%, 4X higher than the rest of the nation--not saying all LEO, but law enforcement is undeniably one of the most corrupt professions in the US. And no one talks about how the KKK has been systematically sending their members in LEO positions after the civil rights movement in the 60s--i could go on but i'll stop here--and i have family/friends who are LEO and great people, so this isn't me just smearing law enforcement, they're also some of the best people in the world, and are well-deserving of our gratitude and admiration--it's one of the most honorable professions in the country)

but the hesitance to pile-on comes because statistically a lot posters here have sexually assaulted women, as a matter of undeniable fact. 

but i wouldn't necessarily think of the people that post on here as "miserable fucks" (well, maybe some of them, jk), and this is not to say that what they did wasn't wrong, and that they should not attempt to make amends in every single way they can and for the rest of their lives, but, it's culture, it's deeply ingrained, it's so normalized (like poor = bad/dumb and rich = good/smart) and regularly reinforced.

also statistically over half the people in the state of michigan (which means roughly half using this forum as well) voted for someone who ON MIC told another guy about how "it's easy" "you just grab their pussy" "they don't do anything", and KNEW they said this and STILL voted for this guy for president.

he literally IS Larry Nassar, and half STILL voted for him, literally there is a larry nassar as president of the united states. un-fucking-believable.

so....Dantonio and Izzo deserve whatever is coming to them, and i don't mean to compare MSU's cover up to our forum, not in the least, but the outrage i feel quickly turns to reflection and realization that i can't truly cast the first stone, or any stones in the frenzy (and i'm not even that religious! just charitable whenever i can)

Joined: 04/20/2014

MGoPoints: 6642

buttesnake

January 29th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^

Joined: 05/17/2011

MGoPoints: 996

ijohnb

January 28th, 2018 at 7:24 PM ^

read your initial response down below, and I don’t entirely disagree with it. But I just feel like oscracizing Izzo as some kind of villain without a conscious or compass is to possibly both lose his perspective on a systemic problem in major college athletics that he actually may have insight on how to solve or address. Why did this happen Tom? I kind of want to know. I kind of want to actually listen to the answers if he would really answer them. Tom Izzo did not create the problem, nor was he a heinous man when he started coaching. It is possible that he is an otherwise ordinary person who behaved in exceedingly bad fashion due to a variety of factors. It is time to truly analyze these factors without treating it as though these guys are sociopathic monsters. A good of their other deeds in life would contradict such a conclusion. There is something afoul at play when otherwise upstanding and law abiding people fall hideously short in matters of basic decency and it requires mature discourse. (When I say “these guys” I obviously am not including Nassar, that is s different thing entirely. I am referring to “they” as Izzo and those similarly situated).

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

Mr Miggle

January 28th, 2018 at 7:32 PM ^

and about wanting to be part of the solution. He truly seems like he is lost. He doesn't know what to say or do or feel, except to keep coaching. I don't think he's going to figure it out during the season either. Someone above said it looks like he's aged ten years in the last week and I agree. A monster wouldn't do that. 

Joined: 10/07/2010

MGoPoints: 47751

snarling wolverine

January 28th, 2018 at 7:42 PM ^

Well, I don't think anyone thinks he (or Dantonio, Hollis, Simon, etc.) is a totally pathological person.  None of them (besides Nassar) wanted people to get raped.  But they were utterly spineless when it came to doing the right thing, and in their cowardice, ended up causing more harm by obstructing justice.  And they were surrounded by Yes-men who applauded them at every turn and told them they were doing the right thing.

The fact that he shows remorse now shows he's a human being, but he could have shown some compassion a lot earlier in his career.  

 

Joined: 12/14/2011

MGoPoints: 98417

ST3

January 28th, 2018 at 9:32 PM ^

There is a lot of truth to what you wrote. I am angry. I shouldn't vent on the internet. His words suggest to me that he doesn't get it completely. His responses remind me of Nassar's letter to the judge. I want him to accept responsibility for tolerating a culture (if not enabling) where wins and losses are more important than victims of sexual assault. EDIT: Part of my anger with Izzo is that I consider today's press conference as strike 3 in dealing with this. Strike one was the asinine (paraphrasing) 'hope they got the right guy' comment. Strike 2 was the wandering press conference Friday night where he kept clinging to the PR talking points. Today, he is still focused on his team and himself. I don't care if this is tough on Izzo. I don't care that it was tough on Simon. This is not about them.

Joined: 09/11/2010

MGoPoints: 52662

bronxblue

January 28th, 2018 at 6:48 PM ^

If "miserable fuck" is the harshest term you'd use to describe Larry Nassar, you might to expand your vocabulary. Yes, Izzo and Dantonio did not sexually assault 150+ young women over 20 years. But they absolutely ignored/failed to properly handle sexual assault charges involving players and staff. At times, you could even argue they tried to subvert established protocols. And they've spent the past week or so showing virtually no remorse. They are part of the culture that allowed all those women to be assaulted, and all the while they got paid millions of dollars to coach sports. So yeah, I think you can call them miserable fucks and still have a space beyond that for the more monsterous of people.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171849

Hotel Putingrad

January 28th, 2018 at 7:14 PM ^

what is classless and vulgar are Dantonio's defensiveness and Izzo's evasiveness. In addition to the moral shortcomings that brought them both to this point, they don't have the self-respect to say, "Because of my past errors in judgement, I can no longer continue to serve this University in a manner deserved by its community."

Joined: 12/10/2014

MGoPoints: 212400

snarling wolverine

January 28th, 2018 at 7:25 PM ^

I agree that Izzo looks like a guilty, beaten man.  But I don't like your characterization of him being "screwed," like he's somehow a secondary victim.

I think about the people his players victimized, the ones that went to Allswede and that were blown off by MSU (and apparently, the ELPD) - and it becomes very hard for me to feel bad for him.  He's been adulated for over 20 years, an absolute idol over there.  He's made crazy money (and will probably get a nice going-away package).  He thought he could do no wrong and finally is learning that he couldn't get away with this.  It's basically the first real adversity he's had in that job.

 

 

 

Joined: 12/14/2011

MGoPoints: 98417

Boner Stabone

January 28th, 2018 at 5:28 PM ^

Izzo is a weasel and watching him try to get himself out of this mess is disturbing.  You can tell he is trying to protect his legacy and say all the right things, but as I tell my kids, One lie leads to another lie and the truth will eventually come out.  That is exactly what is happening to him right now.   In the words of Jack Nicholson "YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!"

Joined: 01/06/2015

MGoPoints: 24119

Mitch Cumstein

January 28th, 2018 at 5:35 PM ^

I agree under normal circumstances, cleaning house would include the coaches whose player committed these heinous acts and weren’t properly punished. That said, Izzo and Dantonio have the thing that holds the most value, deep down, to most MSU students and Alums: the ability to beat Michigan. It’s a psychology that many of the land grant schools have across the country, and is very strong in Michigan. Spartans were happy to see Nassar punished, Simon went away with relatively little resistance, Hollis was next with slightly more. But now you’re seeing the realization that not only is the thing they hold most dear about to be take away, the past years that they’ve felt that fleeting feeling of superiority is about to be tainted. I don’t expect a quick end to this.

Joined: 10/02/2009

MGoPoints: 14072

jmblue

January 28th, 2018 at 5:35 PM ^

Wow, he looks haggard.  

As for the "We've always cooperated" . . . didn't ESPN have to sue them to get them to honor their FOIA request?

 

 

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102887

MGoStretch

January 28th, 2018 at 9:39 PM ^

Not sure why you believe Izzo feels left out to dry. I'm sure he's been in the loop with Hollis. I mean, I saw the transcript of Hollis' press conference, his retirement has been in the works for years. He was totally planning to retire mid January of this year and it has nothing to do with his sexual assault hiding/athletic empire crumbling around him.

Joined: 03/20/2015

MGoPoints: 8630