Things I was told last night re: Ole Miss trio

Submitted by GhostofJermain… on

I was told last night that Shea and Anderson will announce their commitments before they leave today, and that both are going to enroll in January.  John Falk was at the hoops game and was giving all the recruits a tour of the locker room.  One of the parents (not sure who) said they have never seen anything like the red carpet Michigan rolls out.  

I asked about VJ as well.  Was told that they did not have a great read on VJ like they did the other two.  Also VJ had some friends and family visiting him from his Saint Mary's days, he was yucking it up with Bigs 2.0, and I thought he was having a great time and would be coming as well. I did talk directly to him and wished him well, I have not seen him since 2015 and he has grown and bulked up, he told me that his dad had Megatron visit the dolphins practice a few times this year, and that his father still keeps in touch with CJ as well as many other lions players and coaches. He also said he misses being in the D, and he was not sure if he was going to go on any more visits, but did admit many schools reaching out.  One other thing that did happen during the game: Nico, DPJ, and Black rolled in late all together and I must admit they looked like 3 NFL players, also looked like great friends.  

Lastly, in regards to Barrett and Patterson (OL).  I did not see much of them, I think Barrett arrived late and was doing pictures and some catching up.  Patterson I never saw, but I think he was with the coaches and at Schem Hall.  All the attention was on Casear and the group of guys he was running around with that included Shea and others. 

The vibe at Crisler and around lunch and dinner was awesome.  They may all commit (5), but the coaches have been told for a fact that Anderson and Shea are in and enrolling early.  

One last thing.  The coaches, on JH orders are being very careful with the Ole Miss kids.  When in doubt refer to compliance, and this may have something to do with why Shea and Anderson have not made it offical yet.  Not saying that for sure, but they are all being extra careful.  Yesterday, I saw 3x the coaches and staff huddle up to talk about something in regards to the recruits etc.  

 

 

 

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war-dawg69

December 10th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^

I have no idea what you are even talking about. Michigan is not concerned about illegal incentives. This has to do with what can be said at this time. Like someone allready mentioned they just want the transition to go smoothly with no tampering violations or the such.

This why reporters and probably the players were told no interveiws. I am sure all of this will change once they are part of the football team and not until there signed. Michigan has zero to do with anything ole miss has done and that investigation is done and I am sure ole miss wants it to stay done. That is why I highly doubt they want any lawsuit from the players. This also plays into it and is the reason the players were allowed to transfer without restrictions. This is also why I believe they will get waivers to play this year.

With all that going on Michigan just wants to keep everything low key and avoid any violations. It has zero to do with any incentives or any of that alledged b.s..

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M-Dog

December 10th, 2017 at 9:35 AM ^

You all neg'd him - because group think - but Don has a legit point.

Ole Miss is (finally) under sanctions because of repeated cheating and payoffs.  They have been doing this for years.  We've all seen it . . . the last minute flip on signing day by 4/5-stars that showed no signs of interest in Ole Miss right up until then.  It's even happened to us with some recruits.

So now all of a sudden become some Ole Miss kids are interested in us, they are the clean ones in a cess pool of dirty?  How likely is that? 

I am skeptical too.

We can't pretend we don't know what we know.

Michigan is not accountable for whatever transpired at Ole Miss, and we will probably never hear the true details, but it is imperative from here on out that our own compliance makes sure everything is squeaky clean.

  

 

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WorldwideTJRob

December 10th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^

No one is saying all of them are squeaky clean, but if the investigation is over there is nothing to worry about. The NCAA went through the inner workings of that program with a fine tooth comb and all 3 of the kids maintained their eligibility throughout. If there was any doubt about any of them, Ole Miss would have took the steps to have them sitting out games or even dismiss them to please the investigators.

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big john lives on 67

December 10th, 2017 at 11:32 AM ^

NCAA wa in charge of the investigation. All parties in that organization outside of Ole Miss have to abide by the ruling. Therefore, if investigation was incomplete or not thorough, susceptibility to punishment falls on Ole Miss to the extent that they did not fully cooperate, the players if they were not truthful with in testimony, or the NCAA for closing an incomplete investigation. As for our rivals and even conference, I could care less what they think. They couldn’t tell the difference between a bag of cash and integrity for all of the tea in China. They are so far gone already their opinion is moot. Further, I don’t really believe it of the particular kids we are talking about here. Shea was lured by a coaching job for his brother who seems to be a legit coach. We have done that already here. Van is an Catholic leaguer who’s dad is a pro coach. He made a late decision which seemed to be affected at least in part by his dad’s fluid job situation. My son who played with him in HS says top notch guy. I know nothing about the safety. Player stuff in this paragraph is not iron clad but adds to my gut that this is totally legit.

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umchicago

December 10th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^

let's say 3 years from now, after UM wins the national title in 2018, some southern bagman on his deathbed says, "ya, i paid half of the ole miss team back in 2016.  here are the receipts."  is there a zero percent chance UM has to forfeit any of its games for playing potentially ineligible players because the ncaa investigated those players previously?  if  there is zero chance, i say go for it.  but i do have my concerns.

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Sten Carlson

December 10th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^

So you’re only willing to sign off on these guys coming to Michigan if there’s a 0% chance that some strange eventuality won’t come to pass and that said strange eventuality won’t require that Michigan vacates wins? Is this the criterion used to make all your important decisons? Not that you’re actually making the decision at hand. But, all kidding aside, I’ll bet Harbaugh basically said to Compliance, “is there any way this can come back on Michigan?” before taking even the slightest step in that direction. Everyone needs to relax.

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Sten Carlson

December 10th, 2017 at 2:42 PM ^

Their smoke has nothing to do with Michigan. Have “significant concern” if you choose, but if the coaches are moving forward (with the blessing of Compliance) it’s safe, and therefore, IMO, concern is entirely unwarranted. But then, you’re one of Michigan fans who seems to have predilection for worry.

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EGD

December 10th, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^

Okay, but here's the thing: everybody knew Ole Miss cheated under Freeze. It may have taken the NCAA forever to figure it out but it was obvious to fans for years. It should really be even more obvious to recruits. Even if you don't take money yourself, seems to me you would certainly recognize that other recruits and teammates probably would--and if you're a clean recruit, why would you choose a school that exposes you to the risk of NCAA sanctions and having your own reputation tarnished by association? It's a strange decision. So yeah, there's no direct evidence linking any of these transfer candidates to improper benefits. I hope it stays that way. But we are taking a big risk IMO.

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You Only Live Twice

December 10th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^

Just mitigate to the fullest extent possible.   I am sure that Michigan's compliance department and coaching staff has done their due diligence throughout.

 

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Mr Miggle

December 10th, 2017 at 11:23 AM ^

Plenty of other schools recruiting against Ole Miss were dirty too. Recruits know that better than anyone. 

Recruits typically have a different attitude towards that kind of cheating than the rest of us. How often do they turn in schools for cheating even when it hurts the school they ultimately chose? Try to find any cases where there isn't another personal motive in play.

Teenagers aren't known for making decisions the way you describe. This team might get caught cheating, they might eventually get punished. Somebody, some day might think I was dirty too. They're not necessarily wrong either. 

Ole Miss was on the way up, beat Bama in 2014 and 15. 

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brad

December 10th, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^

Wouldn’t the only risk related to accepting impermissible benefits two years ago be that a player loses his eligibility? UM can’t control anything that’s happened already, so if UM keeps doing what it’s doing, there is no unusual risk in this plan, other than that they could conceivably lose a guy who has his eligibility revoked.

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EGD

December 10th, 2017 at 11:52 AM ^

Yes, that is the risk. But I think having a player come in and later be ruled ineligible would be a big deal. 1) you've used a scholarship on him that could have gone to an actual contributor; 2) you might have to forfeit games the player participated in; 3) if it's Patterson, you might lose another QB to transfer and then it's a double-whammy. That's in addition to just the fact that it just looks bad for the school and the program.

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Sten Carlson

December 10th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^

Wary of what? Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that ALL of the Ole Miss players Michigan is considering took bags of cash from the Ole Miss boosters. What does that have to do with Michigan? The NCAA has completed their investigation and handed down their decision. Not one player has been named ineligible per that investigation. As long as Michigan’s recruitment of said players is above board — which I have no doubt it is — nothing that went on at Ole Miss is relevant. I get people worried about what if later they’re deemed to have taken impermissible benefits, and that that could effect Michigan. Wouldn’t there be a scienter requirement on Michigan’s part? The NCAA — the governing authority — has closed the matter without any expression of wrongdoing by the players. That’s an “all clear” endorsement of the players. If, later, they come back and investigate the players, they couldn’t condemn Michigan for acting upon their endorsement. I’d be shocked if Michigan has not asked the NCAA if the players are going to be investigated as a CYA measure. If the NCAA were noncommittal I think Michigan leaves the players alone.

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M-Dog

December 10th, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^

Correct. Michigan is not accountable for what happened at Ole Miss. 

But Michigan is accountable for what happens when transfers get to Michigan.

If a kid is receiving money from a "booster", he often develops a relationship with that booster.  That relationship does not necessarily end just because he transfers.

A lot of these booster types are not doing it for the school, they are doing it for themselves.  They want to get their hooks into kids for a future payout when they go pro. 

Michigan will want to do its due diligence to gain a confidence level that there are no entanglements that carry over up here.

 

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M-Dog

December 10th, 2017 at 1:24 PM ^

No, that's my point about the "wary" part.

You can bet they are doing their due dilligence now, and they will also keep an eye open on an ongoing basis.

These are not just any kids on the roster.  Where they came from, what transpired there, and how they got here matters.

Our compliance and coaches are not just saying "The NCAA's case on Ole Miss is closed, so there is nothing we need to concern ourselves about."

The NCAA's ruling is not an "All Clear" for us.

 

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Blue in Paradise

December 10th, 2017 at 5:20 PM ^

on these kids.  Then what the he!! is this discussion even about?  The NCAA did a 2 year  investigation of Ole Miss and didn't find anything related to these kids.  They will need to approve any transfers and determine immediately eligibility or not.

Our Coaches and Compliance are doing the work to make sure all is well.

What is the concern?  To be worried, you have to believe that the Michigan Athletic Department are a bunch of morans and the "concern trolls" on this board have a better sense of the risks than our Compliance team.

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lhglrkwg

December 10th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^

But if you think a 5*, top 5 overall QB who went to Ole Miss in the middle of their sanctions somehow didn’t get paid, then I’ve got oceanfront property in Wyoming you might be interested in buying. Just because the NCAA didnt find anything doesnt mean it didnt obviously happen. If Ohio State was getting Shea, all of you would be singing a very different tune

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Blue in Paradise

December 10th, 2017 at 12:38 PM ^

He went there because they hired his brother. His family stated that was a big factor for Shea before he committed to Ole Miss. If that is distasteful to you, so be it but Michigan was “accused” of something similar with Devin Bush. I see the Bush case differently (for all of the known reasons) but the national perception is the same as the Pattersons.

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Blue in Paradise

December 10th, 2017 at 11:33 PM ^

The point is that Ole Miss was investigated for 2 years by the NCAA and nothing was found in regards to the recruitment of these 3 players. 

I don't know any more than anyone else why different guys chose different schools.  Ole Miss was a top 10 team in 2015 so it is not insane for players to be interested in playing there.  Or they could have taken money.  Nobody knows except for them and a handful of bag men.

Would you bet your life savings that not one player on Michigan's roster was given an impermissable benefit by somebody, somewhere along the path of their recruitment.  I wouldn't.  Difference with Ole Miss is that I am 99.9% sure that nobody within the university at Michigan had knowledge of this type of activity.

I just don't like this presumption of being guilty.

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EGD

December 11th, 2017 at 9:52 AM ^

Look, when a prospect is so highly-touted that he can sign with just about any program in the country, and he chooses to sign with Ole Miss in 2016--a program widely known for cheating, that had been under NCAA investigation since 2012, then it's reasonable to ask why.

In the case of Patterson, you insisted that Patterson chose Ole Miss because they had hired his brother.  That is certainly plausuble.  I have no idea if that was the true reason, but I have no reason not to believe it either.  

But what about Anderson?  He was the #2-ranked safety prospect (according to the 247 Composite), and he had offers from Alabama, OSU, USC, Clemson, Texas, Michigan, OU, ND, and so on--he could have played anywhere he wanted.  In fact, he probably had more realistic options than Patterson because, as a safety, he fits in pretty much any system whereas a QB needs to be in a compatible offense.  Anderson is from Texas, so it's not as though Ole Miss was his local school.  So why on god's green Earth would he walk into Hugh Freeze's jackpot?

I will say, the fact that Anderson willingly redshirted himself for 2017 feels to me like pretty good evidence that he actually is clean.  If that's true, I still have no freaking idea why he would have gone there in the first place.  Though sometimes I have no real idea why I attended some of the schools I attended, so there is that.

Van Jefferson was almost as highly-touted as the other guys: #106 in the Composite, offers from UGA, Clemson, OSU, M, Oklahoma, Florida, et al.  Maybe he couldn't have gone to Alabama or USC but he still could have easily found someplace other than Ole Miss.  So, same question: why?  

And I wish people would stop with this "well Michigan doesn't know anything about that" line.  That isn't the point.  The point is that if a guy did take improper benefits and it does come to light later, the player could be suspended or ruled ineligible, and Michigan will be stuck with the consequences.  This isn't an ethics question, it's more like "how lucky do you feel?"  

 

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gruden

December 10th, 2017 at 1:44 PM ^

Man all this hand-wringing and trepidation amongst M fans is just off the charts.  First people getting worried about Peters and now that Ole Miss players might be tainted.  Is anyone just plain excited to have these guys come on board in anticipation of a spectacular 2018 season?

I mean c'mon, you think Harbaugh wants to bring down an NCAA investigation and have to vacate wins?  His programs are historically clean so I'm going to let the AD worry about the details since it's their jobs and just enjoy the fact that M is once again the center of interesting goings on in CFB that make the program so relevant.

Dantonio can suck it, he has to trawl for JUCO offerings while M gets top-flight transfers.

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Magnus

December 10th, 2017 at 1:53 PM ^

Right. It's pretty funny. It's like people are afraid that Michigan might actually pull in some transfers who might be good.

As for these guys "taking people's spots" or whatever, what about Speight transferring away? Speight might be the #1 guy at Michigan next year, but he's gone. Drake Harris and Mo Ways both left, which might open up more playing time for some younger guys. Those are departures that weren't necessarily expected when the guys behind them were younger, but they happened. If somebody's stealing our 5th year senior QB, we should be able to take someone else's QB.

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Sten Carlson

December 10th, 2017 at 2:57 PM ^

Many Michigan fans aren’t happy unless they’re miserable and/or concerned/worried. If SP and the Ole Miss weren’t pursued and landed by Harbaugh & Co. I wouldn’t doubt that these same people would wring their collective hands and lament, “why can’t WE ever land guys like this?!” Guys want to skewer Coach for this season, but once again he’s showing that he — more than any human being alive — will do whatever it takes (within the rules as written) to get Michigan to the top of CFB.

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EGD

December 10th, 2017 at 4:51 PM ^

Well, I'm typically one of the more optimistic people around here and when I am pessimistic about things I usually just refrain from posting rather than just bitch & moan. I hope these transfers work out and I realize the things I am worried about are risks, not certainties. But it's a tad insulting to be told, essentially, that all these Ole Miss guys are definitely squeakly and so there's nothing to worry about just shut up & Harbaugh. I think Harbaugh is taking a calculated risk. I don't have the information Harbaugh has so I am in no position to second-guess him and will just hope he's right.

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Blue in Paradise

December 10th, 2017 at 5:26 PM ^

The Coach may have reason to take a calculated risk but Compliance absolutely have no incentive to do this.  They have the opposite incentive which is to keep the program out of trouble.

So unless you think these people a bunch of idiots, you can rest assured that if Michigan takes these players, that any risk to the program is de minimis.

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Sten Carlson

December 10th, 2017 at 5:46 PM ^

Dunn, I didn’t mean to insult you nor imply that you’re among the “hand-wringers” in here. I don’t for one second believe that these Ole Miss players are “squeaky clean” — but, to be fair, I don’t believe ANY elite CFB players nor programs are so pure. That being said, however, I think that within the “cutting corners” realm Michigan and Ole Miss are at opposite ends of the spectrum. But, even this, IMO, is irrelevant to the circumstances at hand. To me, it’s much more than “trust Harbaugh” (but that, given his affinity and responsibilities to Michigan could be compelling enough), it’s trust Ward, trust Compliance, and perhaps even trust Schissle. Nobody at Michigan is going to knowingly swallow a poison pill. Even if Michigan knew, for a fact, that each and every one of these Ole Miss players was outright paid by Ole Miss bagmen, as long as Michigan doesn’t commit the same act, how can they be held accountable for the acts of Ole Miss? That’s the issue to me. That’s why I keeps saying, “so what?!” Suspecting, or even knowing, that things were done improperly doesn’t somehow create liability for Michigan — that would be preposterous. So, we’re the “worst case” to arise and these kids were later implicated in wrong doing — another eventuality I find unlikely given the fact that it’s not already happened and the punishments have been handed down — the NCAA would come down upon the players, not Michigan. So, Michigan should pass up this opportunity because maybe there were transgressions involved in their original recruitment several years ago, and maybe those possible transgressions will come to light and put the program in jeopardy? I see the concern, but it feels pretty convoluted and unprecedented.

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EGD

December 10th, 2017 at 10:12 PM ^

Sten, I was responding to your line about M fans not being happy unless complaining (an observation I ordinarily agree with); yours wasn’t among the posts (not only in this thread but also in others regarding the Ole Miss players) that I found insulting. If you read my posts carefully I agree that Michigan doesn’t face institutional exposure for what may have happened at a Ole Miss. Rather, what worries me is that M could accept these transfers and then one or more of them might later be ruled ineligible if they are found to have accepted improper benefits at Ole Miss. That wouldn’t be on Michigan, but we’d still have to suffer the consequences. As somebody pointed out, there is some risk with pretty much any player—you never know what somebody might have done. But with these Ole Miss guys I think the risk is significant because I don’t understand why the nation’s #1-ranked QB and #2-ranked safety prospects would sign with Ole Miss if they were genuinely clean players, since they had to have known how dirty that program was. But hopefully nothing will happen—there is no direct evidence suggesting they received anything improper, and even if they did, that doesn’t mean anyone will ever say anything about it. Also, I haven’t gone so far as to say M shouldn’t take these guys. Harbaugh is an alum and he genuinely cares about the program, and he’s a smart coach with good judgment. If he thinks these guys are worth the risk, then I support his decision. I just think we need to acknowledge that there actually is some risk here. The thing I found insulting was when some posters would deny that there is any possible way this could go sideways at all.

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M-Dog

December 10th, 2017 at 1:09 PM ^

That's a silly lecture. 

These aren't tender teenagers fresh from the high school prom.  They are transfers from a program that is under sanctions for blatant and repeated cheating and payouts to star players.

They are not that thin-skinned.  They should expect to receive some scrutiny and questions about their possible role in what transpired at Ole Miss.

It would be naive to think otherwise. 

Of course people are going to ask some very legitimate questions.  They know that.

 

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huntmich

December 10th, 2017 at 10:33 PM ^

After Ole Miss started paying players, they established a short-term strong football program. These kinds of things become self sustaining. You don't need to pay every player that comes in the door once things get snowballing, especially a kid from a middle class family who is looking to get the real money when he graduates college.

 

Summary: You are talking out of your ass.

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