Neck Sharpies: The Sight Adjustment Comment Count

Seth

I realize there was a drive and a half afterwards, but for all purposes this was the end of The Game:

In the aftermath there’s been some Michigan fans saying that this wasn’t something the coaches should have put on O’Korn to do—that it was too complicated for a guy who’s already not good at reacting to what’s in front of him.

I don’t think that’s accurate. Option routes in general are complicated because they put more on receivers, but for the quarterback it’s less complicated than a West Coast tree. He’s still seeing the coverage and making a read, it’s just that he gets to stare at the same receiver the whole time instead of finding each guy where he’s supposed to be. Now, the Run and Shoot, or its cousin the Air Raid: those are complicated for quarterbacks because he’s got to read multiple option routes. That’s not what Michigan was asking O’Korn to do on this play.

I’ll explain. Two bad things happened for Michigan to create this disaster:

1. OHIO STATE DISGUISED THEIR COVERAGE

First, let’s go over what the announcing team said about it, since Gus Johnson and Joel Klatt did a good job of explaining what happened afterwards:

Ohio State switching coverage post-snap is half the story. They’re talking about the fact that Ohio State showed Cover 2 pre-snap and then ran a Cover 3 zone blitz, with the line slanting, the SAM blitzing, the weakside end dropping into the flat, and the WLB tasked with dropping into a deep 1/3rd zone.

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[After THE JUMP what O’Korn saw]

But O’Korn never saw the shift. He read Cover 2 pre-snap, figured Gentry was going to run himself into the weakside safety’s zone, and that he’d get the strong safety, Webb, caught between the two receivers’ routes (off-screen). Here’s O’Korn’s pre-snap read:

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Now they snap it, O’Korn turns around to fake the hand-off, and when he comes out of the fake this is what he sees:

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O’Korn is just watching Crawford on this route (more on that in the other half of what happened) and probably feels that his protection isn’t going to last—Kugler has already been discarded by the NT (Robert Landers), and Bosa is splitting Cole and Bredeson. He’s got about a second to make his read and get the ball out.

Let’s pretend for a moment that this is Tom Brady instead of John O’Korn. Brady definitely would notice when he came out of his step-back that the safety’s behavior (letting Crawford go by him while making a zone call to his cornerback mate) is definitely not Cover 2. Brady’s eyes slide automatically to the other safety, who has his back to Gentry and is running to the middle of the field.

Where’s the guy covering the zone that Gentry’s running toward? He’s boned is where he is:

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The play-action delayed the WLB, #17 Jerome Baker, who sucked up on the run…

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…and let Gentry get behind him.

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But only if Michigan was running a West Coast passing tree. Normally that’s a good enough bet. Wilton Speight is very West Coast quarterback, and Michigan brought in modern WCO guru Pep Hamilton this year—I believe—to run an offense predicated on West Coast passing from all sorts of formations with their base I-form personnel on the field. This is what Michigan wanted to be coming into the season.

Watch Speight’s head progress through reads with each bounce. This is clinical.

Speight wasn’t the same guy this year once the right side was breaking down all the time, but once Speight went out O’Korn definitely wasn’t the kind of guy you build a West Coast offense around. Penn State was hard to pull much from but we suspected at that point that O’Korn was throwing option routes—IE they were having him do the things he did at Houston. It was his best game.

What was Peters? They wanted him to be a power run-based West Coast guy.

LB #17 is stretched between McKeon and DPJ—Peters threw it two beats late.

Neither of these were the passing gameplan for Ohio State. The OSU gameplan was about (frippery and) giving O’Korn one thing to read.

------------------------------

2. O’KORN READ THE WRONG SAFETY

O’Korn isn’t Tom Brady, or even Wilton Speight or Brandon Peters. O’Korn tends to lock onto one guy. And his coaches knew it. O’Korn spent his first three seasons at Houston under Tony Levine, an Air Raid guy who’s now the offensive coordinator for Jeff Brohm at Purdue. Here’s an O’Korn game at Houston that HAIL put on the Tubes. Note what happens whenever O’Korn gets to a second read:

This is the book on O’Korn: he reads his first guy, and if it’s not there he gets discombobulated then runs around some. Occasionally he breaks the pocket and makes something crazy happen. More often he’s Christian Hackenberg.

Part of the reason for this is O’Korn’s makeup, I guess. But most of it was the Air Raid offense doesn’t play by West Coast rules. They don’t expect you to make it to your fourth read (at least not usually). Usually you’re making a pre-snap read to decide which guy you’re throwing to, then reading how they cover him, with the receiver reading the same coverage.

The Air Raid’s passing tree is based on the old Run ’n Shoot system.

Follow the link if you’re not familiar. For those who want to keep going, the key to the Run and Shoot are “Sight Reads” or “Option Routes” or “Route Conversions”—the concept evolved several places so the terminology is all over the map. By spacing out the receivers thusly, Mouse Davis and the other Run and Shoot guys could call the same play every time and let the defense pick its poison—until the defense learned to zone blitz it into submission (this was the birth of the 3-3-5 stack, but that’s another story).

The Air Raid, a less systematic successor to the Run and Shoot, took the best passing structures from the West Coast offense and added options that were usually sit routes:

Note the difference between this Air Raid staple from Leach’s offense, and the Run and Shoot: this is a West Coast Offense favorite—four verts—with sit routes.

The idea is to watch one receiver and how the DB is playing him, for example if the the cover guy is off, the quarterback and receiver know that the receiver is going to break off his route and sit down in a hole in the zone underneath. The Run and Shoot is an entire system of these—you progress from one tree to the next, never minding what the actual coverage call is because every battle is an individual one. The Air Raid backs off that: you do have to read post-snap coverages because you’re not running every play from a four-wide spread and isolating the same one or two guys every play.

Non-Air Raid offenses can also borrow the Air Raid route conversions: many, many offenses just build a few option routes into what they were doing. For example Doug Nussmeier’s passing game has their #1 receiver often look back at 7 yards, and the quarterback knows if he gets a blitz from that side he can throw that as a hot read.

Harbaugh’s contribution to sight reads evolved at Stanford and then blossomed at San Francisco. The Alex Smith Harbaugh inherited was no Tom Brady, and was overwhelmed trying to run a West Coast offense against the superheroes in the NFL. So Harbaugh simplified the reads for him by using play-action from a power running game, which freed up underneath for his slot receivers and tight ends to run option routes. Smith then used the NFL lockout that year to practice these option routes with his receivers, and the result was a renaissance season.

Harbaugh did the same with Rudock and Butt in 2015, with the other routes planned to clear room for Butt to work against a linebacker or safety, and Butt given an option. Rudock and Butt would read the defender, and Rudock would only come off it if both reads were covered. Later in the year I suspect they were building option routes in for Chesson, though it was never confirmed.

Thanks to O’Korn biffing it and Crawford making the right route conversion, we know O’Korn was reading not Read 1, Read 2, Read 3, but watching how they covered Crawford:

What I think happened last week is Harbaugh and Drevno and Pep knew they couldn’t get a West Coast game out of their third-string quarterback, and decided to let O’Korn do his Houston thing. If you’re going to lock onto one receiver anyway, fine, just find the safety covering him, and throw it where he ain’t. Note DPJ’s and Gentry’s routes here attack vertically then break away from Crawford. Play-action holds the linebacker level, the other two routes occupy defenders so that only one is isolated against Crawford, and then O’Korn just has to read Crawford and the guy isolated on him.

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So Michigan is not running anything like a full-on Run n Shoot here—I don’t think O’Korn even looked at DPJ’s route, which would be the #1 read in a Run and Shoot—or even an Air Raid. Instead they’re using play-action to keep the linebackers tied down. In the context of the playcall, it was the MLB (#32 Tuf Borland) that Michigan is holding near the line of scrimmage, since that guy could drop underneath the cut-off point of Crawford’s route. Because of Ohio State’s scissors roll however, that did Michigan an even bigger favor by also sucking up the WLB when that guy had a deep outside third to cover.

The tradeoff for holding the linebackers in the box was O’Korn wasn’t looking when the free safety took off for the deep middle:

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The FS is hightailing it to his zone, O’Korn is still facing Higdon

O’Korn comes up, checks his protection, then finds Crawford, the ONE GUY he’s got to read. What O’Korn didn’t see was the safety in coverage on Crawford. John thinks it’s Webb, #7, the on the far left.

Crawford however knows it’s the free safety. Watch his route:

When the strong safety (Webb) got out of the way Crawford knew to look for the guy actually covering him and adjusted. Because the receiver read the safety correctly, and because the MLB was late getting depth due tot he play-action, Crawford is open: regardless of the coverage, the scheme worked. But O’Korn never came off his pre-snap read, and threw it as if Ohio State had just busted massively. Also Robert Landers is about to plow into him.

So that’s why there’s nobody to even contest the ball and Jordan Fuller gets to field a punt.

THAT SOUNDS COMPLICATED!

It’s not the least complicated. If you really want to make things easy on your quarterback there are ways, and Harbaugh’s offense was using all of them:

  • Run-pass options. Michigan did run these against OSU.
  • MESH and pick routes. This was the Purdue gameplan—they’re also a gimmick you can’t hang your hat on unless you’ve got Wisconsin-/MSU-level OPI avoidance.
  • Rollout/cut the field in half. Another gimmick: Minnesota tried a lot of this to shield Demry Croft, and had under 100 yards in the 4th quarter.
  • Establish play-action off an unbeatable running game: This worked against Rutgers/Minn/Maryland but Ohio State’s run defense was too strong to do the same. Also this WORKED on the play in question.
  • Screens: Work best against blitz-happy defenses, and most defenses only get blitzy when a quarterback is picking them apart—OSU doesn’t have to rush >4 to get immediate pressure. Also work better against defenses that don’t have athletic LBs, and OSU’s LBs are some of the best pure athletes at the position in the country.
  • Scheme guys open. That 4th down play O’Korn missed where Evans took a sharp cut on his circle route was a brilliant play call set up by the offense. So was this play.

In the grand scheme of things, this wasn’t actually that complicated—it’s not a Kindergarten read, but we’re still in the realm of things high school quarterbacks do all the time. Michigan gave O’Korn this:

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And told him to find #1 and the guy in coverage on #1, then throw it where the guy in coverage doesn’t have leverage. O’Korn’s pre-snap read determined it was this:

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And between the snap and when O’Korn came out of his break, Ohio State turned it into this.

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That added one layer of complication, sure. It also left a 6’8” guy who runs a 4.6 wide open for a 60-yard pass that most QBs make. Except Michigan had dumbed down the offense so O’Korn didn’t have to worry about the WLB—he just had to see ONE safety was running toward the middle of the field and convert that to knowledge that his receiver would be open underneath that. O’Korn just didn’t see it. Ballgame.

Comments

ak47

December 1st, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^

I haz sad but the play that will haunt me all offseason is the miss of Evans on the 4th down.  I had already given up hope after that miss and subsequent drive so the interception was more icing on the cake of despair than the main course.

StephenRKass

December 1st, 2017 at 11:05 AM ^

Great article, great read, most helpful. Smh. So painful. Two receivers open, Crawford and Gentry. And O'Korn, sadly, biffs it. Really looking forward to next year. It is particularly painful because of the misguided scorn and derision from OSU fans, and from vitriolic Michigan fans. Argh. Great game plan, dealing with team weaknesses, but couldn't overcome the loss of Speight and Peters.

Also, I wonder if Kugler was holding. I refuse to believe in conspiracy theories ("The refs have it in for Michigan and are screwing them with holding calls.") I suspect a hidden dislike of Michigan for past arrogance. Although, you would think they'd let go of that since it has been a long time. But back to Kugler. I think part of the reason Michigan has gotten so many holding calls is because our OL has been clearly deficient. And the refs are predisposed to look for a bad OL to hold. I guess I'm glad Kugler got to play, but man, let Ruiz begin.

StraightDave

December 1st, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^

He was good enough to start for two years so he has some street cred.   He laughs every time I show him these posts about UM's complicated offense.    He keeps telling me it's not the offense, it's the players.  

Michigan4Life

December 1st, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^

showed why Speight won the starting job by a wide margin. They put more stuff on Speight's plate because coaches are confident that he can handle it which he can. Speight does a great job with fast mental processing speed that he change his progression read based on defensive coverage. It's a shame that he got knocked out in the middle of the season.

In the off-season, I hope Speight can work on his footwork where it regressed to the point where it's affecting his accuracy.  To say that he's not good, they're wrong because every throw he made this season was a result of bad footwork. Two INTs are not bad reads, just a bad throw.

Too bad that Speight won't end his career at Michigan but I will root for him whenever he'll go to the NFL. He's already on NFL scout's radar as a QB prospect.

Alumnus93

December 1st, 2017 at 11:54 AM ^

I agree, and would have really liked to have seen a senior Speight leading the team next year. With him we beat MSU and OSU I think... he did seem to be regressing but I think that was Pep's new system, and he'd have reigned it in.  Am very surprised he is leaving and wonder if he got the firm handshake or not, because I think we can win it all next year with him. But am all in on Peters and looking forward to watching him play a year older.

Michigan4Life

December 1st, 2017 at 10:17 PM ^

he never got the firm handshake and decided to transfer before meeting with Harbaugh. Michigan's interest in Shea Patterson(provided he is eligible immediately upon transferring) pretty much almost confirms that Harbaugh didn't want Speight to leave.

buckley

December 1st, 2017 at 11:32 AM ^

I learned something yet again.  And this:

"Nobody gets to frippery their way to a win in the greatest rivalry in sports. You have to play some goddamn football."

Carcajou

December 1st, 2017 at 6:31 PM ^

Michigan has had a tendency- like a lot of teams- to run on 3rd and long and see what they can get. It's good to maintain than threat as long as possible, as it can slow the rush just a bit. Even late in the game, it often does make the LBs hesitate a step or two, which gives intermediate routes a better chance to get open. It's also timed up for deeper routes- and with this current level of pass protection, it is doubtful that Michigan bothers to put many/any 7-step drop (or even a lot of straight 5-step drop) passes in the game plan.

Don't know why so many folks around here were making such a big deal about that.

Cereal Killer

December 1st, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^

But even without that, Cole and Bredeson are double teaming Hubbard, and immediately at the snap Bredeson turns himself 45 degrees.  Is that how that's supposed to be done?  I don't know the first thing about o-line technique, but some rudimentary geometry and physics suggest to me that staying square to the line would work better.

AC1997

December 1st, 2017 at 12:00 PM ^

  1. Despite the context, this was my favorite Neck Sharpie. I LOVED the way you tied in different schemes, different QBs, and boiling it down to what happened and why.  Excellent.
  2. This renewed some faith in the coaches for me.  They adapted to the hand they were dealt and out-coached OSU.  This play is an example where OSU played a trump card by disguising their coverage and yet Michigan still schemes TWO recievers open for large chunks.  
  3. Every player running those routes returns next year.  Peters already has shown an ability to work within the system given his 4TD-0INT ratio.  There's a lot of reason for optimism.
  4. Why exactly did the coaches think O'Korn and his "lock on one guy" approach was a better choice than Peters when Speight went down?  
  5. Despite the disguised coverage and O'Korn's mistake on the read, we really need to underscore the massive problem with the OL on this play.  I don't care if Tom Brady himself was back there - he's going to have to make a quick adjustment to what he sees after the play action and will be staring down some scary looking DL about to smash him.  If we can't fix the OL next season it won't matter how much of the depth chart returns or how good the new QB is at running these plays.  

Seth

December 1st, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^

My reactions to your reactions and this is dummy text because I know the up/down vote will get in the way if I start a bulleted or numbered list and yes this is something we are fixing on the new site:

  1. Thanks
     
  2. Harbaugh and co vastly out-coached OSU in this game. Too bad it wasn't enough. 
     
  3. Receivers also improve dramatically year to year. I still think they need a real WRs coach and I think Erik Campbell is available and good at this.
     
  4. O'Korn, I gather mostly from Sam talking about him, is way better at practice than on the field. Even though Harbaugh lets his QBs get hit in practice, JOK knows Gary and Winovich aren't going to kill him. He's way more confident in his reads and makes use of his legs more often. Peters was a C/C+ guy; I think O'Korn looks like a B- in practice and then becomes a D- on the field. Remember Joe Bolden? Also coaches are naturally loathe to pull a guy once they've made their decision to start him. That has all sorts of negative things, and also it's human nature to try to make the thing you have work instead of changing (think how long people stay in bad jobs).
     
  5. Fortunately OL improve year to year even more than WRs, usually. Even Kugler went from "we're going to play a true freshman over you" in 2016 to starting at center this year. Brian wrote in 28 Tickets that Bredeson's follies at pass pro are way more excusable if you think of him as a redshirt freshman right now.

AC1997

December 1st, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^

Thanks for responding Seth.  Follow up from me:

4. I'm sure you're correct, but it doesn't make it less frustrating.  Seeing Gedeon's name in the "Michigan in the NFL" piece on Touch The Banner every week makes me shake a fist at the coaches for their continued loyalty to Bolden.  Likewise, you'd hope that coaches would see through some of the "practice player" hype with O'Korn after his performances last year and in spring games.  But I get what you're saying....

5.  I have stopped believe any of the cliches regarding OL development that we as a fan base have deployed the last decade.  Youth!  New blocking scheme!  One bad apple spoils the bunch!  Position switches!  Coaching change!  No dedicated OL coach!  Lack of depth!  We have seen a decade long sucky performance out of the OL with the possible exception of one RichRod year despite all of those things. 

While I'm optimistic that we have a mauling interior line on the horizon and that Ruiz will be the next David Molk at making line calls....we can't even create a depth chart at OT.  And even BEST CASE we're starting some combination of a position switch (Bredeson, Runyan, Spanellis), unproven starter (freshmen), 2-year injury recovery (Newsome), or recycling someone with poor previous results (JBB, Ulizio).  I hope Peters gets some good health insurance.....

1VaBlue1

December 1st, 2017 at 2:11 PM ^

Back to #4...  There was some talk earlier in the season (Fall camp?) that Peters didnt' know enough of the offense to really push for the 2-spot.  Put him at #3, and he's no longer working directly with the coaches during games weeks, and is not even seeing reps with the 1's and 2's.  There's no way he could overtake #2 (JOK) in that situation.

When Speight went down, he moved to #2, started getting personal tutoring from Pep, and began getting reps with the 1's and 2's.  Harbaugh said he wasn't ready to play until the IU game (3 weeks after-Speight).  

Looking at it like that, it makes sense to put JOK on the field.

DHughes5218

December 2nd, 2017 at 12:53 AM ^

I must be the glass half empty type because when I see our coaches dominate another staff and still get outscored 31 - 6 in the final three quarters (minus the first couple minutes of the 2nd quarter), I don't see it as a good thing. Are their players that much better than ours? 

I've been in a funk since the PSU loss and can only see the negatives. I`'ll probably be an idiot until NSD and then I`'ll be on Bovada wagering UM to win it all in 2018 and 2019. I wonder if I can parlay that combo?

gsimmons85

December 1st, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^

that any highly recruited qb saw every game he played in highschool.   Its the first thing high school DC's have to do if they are going to try to put any pressure on a big arm.    you cant just line up and say ok on this play we are blitzing.

steming from a 2 shell to a single high safety is about the simplest thing you can do post snap.  the fact that a dI upper classman qb had trouble  identify it is really remarkable.     

 

 

Hail-Storm

December 1st, 2017 at 12:18 PM ^

Some times you these concepts go over my head, but this one makes complete sense on why it happened. It was hard to understand why the throw was to nobody during the game. It still hurts to watch Gentry break free.  He easily could have been inside the 30 with a pass, and possibly more with an athletic play. 

Sopwith

December 1st, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^

I'm just sayin', if it ever came to that.

It's funny because I've been saying for a week that something like Air Raid would be fine for JOK as a contrast to whatever Harbaugh is trying to get the kid to learn, which I assumed were pro concepts or pro-infused, let's say. But if they're genuinely trying to make it even simpler than AR... man, that is just unfortunate all around. 

As I noted in my postgame observations post (I was at the game), I wasn't seeing obvious mechanical issues with JOKs overthrows (though weirdly, most came when Michigan was coming towards the North end where I was sitting, so I didn't have the best view). Most overthrows are some kind of awful footwork, whether over-striding, no transfer of weight from back to front, open shouldered stance, etc. Didn't see it in person. I think it was just the yips, and as on this play, a misread of the target's destination.

The tragedy of JOK is that I think he could go out and win an NFL QB Skills Challenge type competition. He's that kind of talented physically. The game just moves too fast for him to process.

Blue in Paradise

December 1st, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^

With Martin and Perry catching check downs underneath from Peters.

DPJ is improving at a tremendous clip and should be a superstar next year once he puts the final touches on his technique and playbook knowledge.  Once this is down, his athleticism will truly start to shine through.

 

StephenRKass

December 1st, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^

Here's what I'm interested in. What happens now, between now and Spring Ball?

  • JH has always said he wants to put the best players on the field to win. Ok, that makes sense. Is there a point in which he really is using December to prep for next year? For instance, giving more snaps to Solomon than Hurst in the bowl game? Using Ben Mason more? Using McCray less?
  • What do the skill guys do between the bowl game and Spring Ball? Do they study the play book? Does Peters go out and practice routes (without coaching supervision) with Black and DPJ and Perry and Schoenle and Crawford? And maybe Evans and McDoom?
  • What does the OL do? Just lift weights (need to "get stronger?") Is it impossible for them to actually practice together without a coach?

Blue in Paradise

December 1st, 2017 at 5:22 PM ^

To be honest, he should probably just skip the game.  He is projected as a top 15 pick so why risk an injury for a glorified exhibition game.

Hill, Poggi and McCray don't have that luxury, they need to play well as it will be the last game reps they can put on film before the draft.  Harbaugh will give them regular minutes.

My understanding of offseason workouts is that Jan - March is mostly about S&C with less focus on football activity (other than working with the jugs machine, etc...  April - July is where you see the guys getting together for skills and reps.

Jonesy

December 1st, 2017 at 8:44 PM ^

Harbaugh said in his podcast that the first week of bowl practices the starters and regular contributors don't practice and just do conditioning and they focus on all the younger guys. After that I believe he said they move on to bowl game prep.

Yo_Blue

December 1st, 2017 at 12:57 PM ^

I'm continually impressed with the level of detail provided in the after-game analysis.  Without turning his back on the play, O'Korn probably sees the shift, but without the play action the middle of the field gets clogged up and several routes are taken away.  Still hurts.  Thanks for the hard work, Seth.

MinWhisky

December 1st, 2017 at 1:14 PM ^

...when JH and his staff clearly ranked him as the backup for more than half the season?

Mis-grading the QBs this season was a huge mistake IMO, and possibly the root cause of all of the team's later season failures.

Brandon Peters only became the "#2" QB by default, but he couldn't really be expected to perform like a #2 because because he never got the practice reps and playing time as the #3 QB.

Gitback

December 1st, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^

Peters didn't start playing because of an injury to O'Korn.  He replaced an ineffective O'Korn and was then named the starter the following week.  So, if Speight was the "starter, but for injury" then Peters became #2 based on performance, relegating O'Korn to #3, where he stayed until INJURY allowed him to become the starter.  That's QB's #1 and #2 being down due to injury thus necessitating QB #3 to start.  Thus, John O'Korn is our #3 quarterback as of the OSU game.  

The staff had their reasons for keeping Peters on the bench.  Based on what they saw in practice they must have thought that it was at least a push with respect to which of the two gave the team a better chance at a win.  Experience counts for a ton and JOK had all of it.  Also, JOK has an escapability aspect to his game that is a plus.  After his performance in the Purdue game there was no way they were going to start a RS frosh over him in the MSU game.  The staff couldn't have predicted what occurred there.   

After that... I'm sure they continued getting Peters ready as fast as they could.  They probably figured that either of them could beat Indiana (they were *barely* right, but they were right) and then: I don't care how bad O'Korn looked against Indiana, are you really going to throw a red shirt freshman out against a #2 ranked PSU, on the road, at night?  That's a lot to ask of a kid who, according to what we know, wasn't coming in with a Forcier background of tutors and gurus and Trent Dilfer on speed dial.  Remember, the coaches don't have the Rutgers/Minnesota/Maryland data on Peters at that point.  All they have is practice data and, in practice, JOK apparently holds his own, plus he's played in real games before.  

As soon as Speight went down I bet the plan was to give Peters his shot against Rutgers if JOK struggled, and before that only in the event of a total disaster.  O'Korn's outings were not good, but also not out-and-out disasters, so they stuck to the plan.  Peters came in against Rutgers and performed well against them and two other tomato cans, showed his inexperience a bit against the Badgers, and then got injured. 

I'm not sure many other coaching staffs would have played this out any other way.  We can't assume that the coaches were seeing "Indiana" JOK every week in practice and "Maryland" Peters at the same time and were just being like "nah, we'll stick with O'Korn."  What we know now is that a lot of O'Korn's problems were gameday, heat of the moment problems.  Meanwhile, Peters is apparently one of those "better in the game than in practice" types.  

MinWhisky

December 1st, 2017 at 2:03 PM ^

...JOK as #2 and BP as #3.  It was especially bad because JOK was here for 2+ years under JH and he still got it wrong. 

Your comments amount to a lot of excuses built on conjecture.  I'd like to see JH man-up to his big mistake(s) so he can fix whatever methodology he used to grade out the QBs this year and make the correct decision next year.

username03

December 1st, 2017 at 2:27 PM ^

I think that's part of the point. They should have been doing everything in their power to get BP 'ready'. To teach him the offense, rather than burying him on the bench and wasting those snaps on JOK. Besides, 'knowing' the offense was worth precisely 0 if it was JOK doing the knowing.

Think about the crap you're saying before you say it.

1VaBlue1

December 1st, 2017 at 2:45 PM ^

When are they supposed to work with him?  He's not with the 1's&2's as a redshirt.  They can't work with him during the summer.  They had spring and fall camps, with 3 other QB's to work with.  They can't spend time on him during the season - there's only so much instruction time to go around (20 hrs/week).  Maybe Peters should have spent more time learning the PB on his own?

You're saying crap without thinking...

username03

December 1st, 2017 at 3:03 PM ^

Well first of all you're basically just making up the whole he didn't know the offense stuff. Earlier in the year it was becasue he wasn't loud enough. The continually changing narrative on why he wasn't ready should give you somewhat of a clue of the veracity of those rumors. Regardless, he should have been with the 1's and the 2's. If you are unclear on how this should work look no further than the way our rival handeled their QB situation.

MinWhisky

December 1st, 2017 at 3:22 PM ^

Think about it.  First, you indicate that neither JH nor Peters had the time to get ready during the spring season, fall practices, or the first part of the playing season.  That's multiple months.  But then, all of a sudden, when everyone realizes JOK can't cut it, they get Peters 'ready' within a matter of days.  No, the staff screwed up by basically ignoring Peters while practicing JOK as the #2

MinWhisky

December 1st, 2017 at 3:44 PM ^

The reason BP's knowledge of the offense was limited was because JH graded him as the #3 QB.  JH is supposed to be the "QB Whisperer", but he made a big mistake in putting JOK as the #2, despite having more thana 2+ years of experience with him.  JH wasn't brought here and doesn't get paid millions to make those type of errors.  And actually, it was much more than a mistake/error because it wasn't a one-time event.  JH made the same mistake, over and over again, because he kept JOK at #2 until his play forced him to bring in Peters.

Gitback

December 1st, 2017 at 3:09 PM ^

... to a hot take without anything.  "Conjecture" or otherwise.  You're just pissed at the world and want someone to blame, so you're looking at what we know NOW and blaming the coaches for not knowing it THEN.

That's not how it works.

Unless you were at every practice, personally, and saw Peters clearly outperforming O'Korn day in and day out, then this assumption that you're making is just as much conjecture as anything anyone else is saying... and I know that these calls aren't as easy as you seem to think they are.  

MinWhisky

December 1st, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^

JH gets paid millions of dollars, was a QB in college and the pros, has been a head coach in college and the pros, had multiple years to watch JOK, spend untold hours with both JOK and Peters, but decided to clearly and unmistakeably rate JOK as the back-up relagating BP to #3.  That was a huge mistake.  I expected better given JH's background and previous success.  I also excpected the QB play to be much better, regardless of who was playing, for the same reasons.

Jonesy

December 1st, 2017 at 8:50 PM ^

JOK played very well in Rome, fall, and spring. Then a real pass rush comes at him and he's awful. Meanwhile rumor is Peters was very slowly learning the playbook then didn't react very well to being down on the depth chart and his attitude and work ethic sucked.

 

Furthermore, people get this shit wrong all the time. Where was Brady drafted again? How many #1 qb picks end up terrible? Case Keenum was undrafted and is now having a near mvp calibre season with a 9-2 team.

 

You say you expect better QB play regardless but the only guy available who harbaugh recruited was redshirt freshmen brandon peters. So maybe he missed on BP, nobody is 100%, and that's  sample size of 1. He was makign do with what he had and I'd say considering Borges track record and Speight's pedigree that Harbaugh made quite a lot out of what he had.

MinWhisky

December 1st, 2017 at 9:40 PM ^

...for his #2, after dismissing Shane Morris.  That group included Alex Malzone, Zach Gentry, Brandon Peters, and JOK.  He picked JOK.  It was not a good choice.  Maybe he was not only mistaken with putting JOK ahead of Peters, but with sending Morris, Malzone, and Gentry to the back of the bus.  Morris did pretty well at CMU.  We'll find out in a couple of years about Malzone.  Just saying. 

As you said, "People may get this shit wrong all the time", but Harbaugh is being paid big bucks to get it right and he didn't.   

Gitback

December 1st, 2017 at 1:15 PM ^

Seth... this writeup is just phenominal.  Truly.  The X's and O's are great, sure, but it is your ability to convey these concepts that makes it worthwhile. 

Ya, sure, actual coaches know all of the nuances to a degree that you might not, but have you ever tried to have the average "genius" coach EXPLAIN these kind of things to someone other than a fellow coach?  I'm sure you've seen the outcome of that more than once.  Therein lies your true abilities.  Most of them aren't capable of putting these concepts into terms that would allow the average fan to grasp 10% of what their saying.  Meanwhile, you may only be delivering 75% of the "whole story" but because of your talent with crafting a narrative we can understand 100% of that 75%. 

Great coaches can "coach" these things, but very few can "write" about them.  

And, you know, this post actually makes me feel BETTER, not worse.  I remember some of these kinds of reviews, key play look backs where the verdict was "this play had no chance."  The two point conversion against OSU back in 2013 comes to mind.  

I prefer to hear that it came down to a breakdown at QB and Center, rather than a systemic "we don't match up well at any position AND/OR schematically..." a la say, 2010.    

You gotta think... if our coaching staff can get a high concept offense like this rolling, something that requires and teaches skills that directly translate to many of the NFL offenses, this will be incredibly attractive to recruits.