Harbaugh: John O'Korn to remain starting QB against Rutgers.
John O'Korn will remain Michigan's starting QB vs. Rutgers, Jim Harbaugh says. Brandon Peters still backup.
— Aaron McMann (@AaronMcMann) October 23, 2017
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:26 PM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:32 PM ^
The same thing was said before the Cincinnati game, and no backup saw signifcant time. Never doubt this offense's inability to score against anyone.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:48 PM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:51 PM ^
on dude. Saturday was brutal but that was a really good team with great skill position players coming off a bye week who opened up the entire playbook on Michigan's defense (after being able to save everything, all year, and unleash it in a flurry of haymakers). Michigan is still a good team with a very good defense. Rutgers gonna die.
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:25 PM ^
should dominate but UM's offense is bad. Rutgers actually has the 43rd ranked defense in the FEI rankings. The only game UM has played so far this year that wasn't tight entering the 4th quarter was PSU. I'm not expecting this game to be a nail biter, but I'm not expecting it to be a big blow out either.
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:35 PM ^
I'm definitely not willing to say "Rutgers gonna die." Rutgers is coming off two wins against - admittedly - terible teams. But that's momentum for them. Whereas, our team has been embarressed in two marquee, primetime games the past few weeks, and local / regional / national media are slamming UM from every angle right now.
It's hard to tune out the negativity especially when I imagine there is a lot of doubt in the locker room right now. I'm not saying we won't beat Rutghers - if we don't, I'll probably go to Brian's bleach distributer and pick up a few jugs. But, I can easily forsee us playing like sh*t and this game being close until the 4th quarter.
I sincerely hope I am wrong...
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:36 PM ^
I'll say it: Rutgers gonna die. There are few things in my life I'm more certain of right now.
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
Michigan is a team with a good defense
FTFY
October 23rd, 2017 at 5:41 PM ^
From what I understand Harbaugh doesn't bring in the backups until the offense/defense has proven they are effective and efficient. This is why we didn't see a ton of backup QB play until late in the third during our blowouts last year. I don't see Harbaugh pulling JOK in this game, regardless of the score; the offense needs reps
October 23rd, 2017 at 5:51 PM ^
I don't think Peters is better. If he was he'd be starting.
What I think is that he stands a much greater chance of getting better on the field than on the bench and we absolutely MUST have him at least competent next year.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^
JOK maybe be better, but by how much? From what I have seen this year Speight really was not better then JOK but he played until injured. You have to look at this season and understand we are not winning a championship or even getting a top flight bowl game. There does come a point when you have to realize your playing for next year and a lot of that has already happened with so many young guys playing. You expect the experience they are gaining is invaluable and all should be better next year.
However, the most important position QB is not gaining that expereince for next year. We will not take the next step if Speight is playing. We will need either Peters or McCaffery to be the man and getting them experience now is the best step to be set up for a huge season next year. I don't think your throwing in the towel by playing the youngs guys, I think either way this team probably ends up 8-4, but it will have us in much better position to be a championship team next year.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:31 PM ^
This has been my stance all season. Speight and O'Korn would never get us to 10+ wins this year. Maybe Peters doesn't either but a year of experience would make him so much better next year. My suspicion is they don't want this because they want McCaffrey to be the guy next year.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:30 PM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:24 PM ^
tell the seniors that that the team is just phoning it in for next year. then see how the rest of the team plays.
October 23rd, 2017 at 5:04 PM ^
making a change at QB is just phoning in the season and we will lose the rest of our games? Hmmm..... I guess I don't see it the same way and would expect the players to play hard for the team and and themselves and try to win every game. We have been playing younger players over more experienced ones at other positions this year and I don't think the players thought we were just phoning it in.
October 24th, 2017 at 1:35 AM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:37 PM ^
I trust Harbaugh is playing the best player. But maybe that's not the best thing to do now? The national title is basically out of reach. The B10 title is basically impossible to win. At this point, we're playing for a respectable season, which still can be great. We could still win 11 games this year. But I find it hard pressed to continue playing OKorn even if he's the best player in the bunch. The only argument people seem to be able to come up with is not throwing Peters to the wolves but I just can't believe players are that fragile that they'd be perminantly damaged by playing in a below average offense. Even if Peters plays just as poorly as OKorn in games, he's at least gaining experience to be better for the future (heck, the future even being the end of this season).
So while I get that OKorn might be the best QB right now, I still don't understand what the benefit is to us in playing him. If he was at least an average QB, ok -- I'd get it. But he isn't, so I don't.
I'm also not a football coach. I'm just a fan. So I'll sit back and watch the guys who get paid millions to make these desicions. But it's fine if we as fans sometimes don't understand them.
October 24th, 2017 at 1:57 AM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 12:51 PM ^
Harbaugh doesn't want him being a college athlete?
Is Peters like 8 years old? Did he not play football his whole life and deal with those very issues?
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:05 PM ^
think it is painfully clear now that there is some type of situation with Peters going on. I don't view Jim Harbaugh as somebody who would do something intentionally that is 1) bad for Michigan football and 2) bad for Brandon Peters, at the same time without a good reason. He is not Dr. Evil. Perhaps we should just believe that Brandon Peters is not playing because it is best that Brandon Peters not play right now and understand that there may be a reason that we don't know the reason.
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:25 PM ^
Maybe he just isn't ready.
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:35 PM ^
don't really think that even means anything. "Just isn't ready" for what, in particular? To play football against Rutgers? To get some snaps against Indiana when O"Korn was throwing for 49 yards? That does not add up.
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:52 PM ^
Sorry, ijohnb, but I will defer to Harbaugh 100 times out of 100 over you.
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:04 PM ^
not saying you shouldn't defer to Harbaugh, or that you should defer to me(?), I just don't think the "just not ready" narrative makes all that much sense. Harbaugh has not publicly said that about Peters so it is not as though I am refuting anything that Harbaugh has stated.
October 23rd, 2017 at 11:26 PM ^
you're second guessing Harbaugh and the coaching staff, and the players, in favor of your judgment and that of other anonymous internet commenters. If the coaches say someone's not ready, I have to think that means they are not ready.
When the player is ready, and the coaches send that person in the game, the armchair coaches will either be saying "See I told you all along he was ready" OR "Send in another backup!" Neither response is quite rational.
Coaches saying someone is not ready is not a "narrative." It's the judgment of the people who are paid and have the experience and knowledge to make that judgment.
October 24th, 2017 at 5:32 AM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:01 PM ^
Again though, what does "isn't ready" mean? Not ready to hand the ball off? Not ready to call a play? This excuse doesn't make any sense.
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:09 PM ^
To say "he is not ready" does not explain this situation. O'Korn is not ready either apparently and he is playing. If Brandon Peters was the plan there is really no reason he wouldn't be playing. The offensive line narrative is non-sensical. It is not like we are going to have the best O-line in the country next year. Newsome is a question mark, basically it is this o-line minus Cole and Kugler, insert redshirt freshman. What would make Peters "ready" then?
October 23rd, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
There are, in my opinion, only two real alternative explanations here: 1. Peters is awful and will never be a starter here, or 2. This is a mistake. O'Korn did not play awfully this past weekend, but he is a known quantity with a low ceiling who will be gone next year.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:42 PM ^
They don't want to insert Peters because they don't him to get a leg up on McCaffrey for next year. This is my theory based on rumblings that Peters dad is an ass and the fact that McCaffrey has all the NFL connections that this staff loves. It's just my theory and I could be wrong but it's my gut feel because none of this makes sense.
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:09 PM ^
But there's a 3rd option, as other posters have pointed out:
- JOK is marginally better than Peters right now--say 10% better; and thus in a better position to win Michigan games for the duration of the season; but
- Peters has the higher upside, and after X number of snaps in live game action, will start to pass up JOK, but as of yet during practice hasn't done it yet; and
- Harbaugh doesn't choose to view roster/starting positions based on a 10 or 20 game time scale, but on a 1 game time scale.
Therefore, becuase JOK is simply 10% better than Peters right now, Harbaugh is going to start JOK, even though after 4 or 5 games, it's possible that Peters could end up being 10% better than JOK. Bird in the hand, if you will.
That's not a "mistake"--it's simply a team management philosophy that many of us happen to disagree with.
What is a little incongruous is Harbaugh having "next game" mentality versus this complicated offense. You'd think if he was purely "next game" oriented, he'd both start JOK and start to radically scrap/simply the offense (maybe he's done that and I'm just not sophisticated enough to realize it?). Conversely, if he was "big picture" oriented, you'd think he'd stick with the complicated offense despite the bad outcomes this year--thinking the guys will eventually get it--but if that were the case, you'd also think he'd be more prone to getting Peters/McCaffrey some looks in-game to get a jump on the QB battle for next year.
But right now it's a little of column A, a little from column B.
But the bottom line is we just don't know. The hardest part of all of this is we aren't guaranteed to blow out Rutgers by the 2nd quarter. I'd love for JOK to start, us to rack up a solid 3 TD lead, then have Peters play the rest of the snaps.
I do think he wants to make damned sure we get a least 6-7 games won so we have an entire extra month of bowl practice. IIRC, in years past, during bowl practice, he made a point to get more snaps to the guys who were definitely returnig the following season.
October 23rd, 2017 at 5:38 PM ^
"at least 6/7 wins"? we are 5-2, with lowly Rutgers coming up, followed by two very average to below average teams. If JH is worried in any way about hitting bowl eligibility, we have bigger problems than I thought.
I also don't follow the marginally better (10%) logic. 10% is a pretty small margin, especially when you have only seen 1 of the 2 in actual games. That 10% can evaporate pretty quickly, and a new face at QB could provide a spark and give the opposing defenses something else to think about.
October 23rd, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
but it's RUTGERS. I'm sure that game would do nothing but build his confidence...
October 23rd, 2017 at 2:57 PM ^
And what would that do to O'Korn's confidence? What if we did that, and Peters really showed everyone just why he hasn't played yet? Then you have broken what little bit of confidence is left in O'Korn, and damaged Peters' as well. Then, maybe you have a locker room split. What now? Is that the best case for developing the team for next year? Not to mention we still have games left to play this year. And need to recruit.
I just can't understand random dudes on a message board thinking they have it figured out, where our coaching staff does not. It's not a zero sum situation, there is nuance that nobody seems to be considering.
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:04 PM ^
You're the one making it zero sum by implying that if one plays bad, it breaks them. Ridiculous. People have failures and come back from them. It's fine. You're deferring to Harbaugh. That makes sense. Anything beyond that though is a reach when you're talkiong about a locker room split or breaking JOK.
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:19 PM ^
/deep sigh
October 23rd, 2017 at 3:48 PM ^
guess I don't understand what you are saying, or why you are sighing. It looks to me that you were trying to find a conversation where you could sweep in and "make all the sense" and tell people to stop freaking out or something. But instead you have came into a conversation where people were just discussing things, gave an opinion, attributed it to Harbaugh, and then implied that if anybody disagrees with you they are questioning Harbaugh?
October 23rd, 2017 at 5:37 PM ^
no sense reasoning, ij - some people can never admit that mistakes are being made because it means you "don't support the program or JH". Its a shame, really...I appreciate your rationale.
October 23rd, 2017 at 7:00 PM ^
I just think that there has to be a reason why we haven't seen Peters. That's about it.
October 23rd, 2017 at 7:16 PM ^
Welp. We have a grand total of four TD passes this year so far. The only two teams with less are Georgia Southern and Army, both of which run triple option. That's a pretty damning stat. All I'm saying is, it actually can't get much worse.
October 23rd, 2017 at 11:35 PM ^
Timmay is right.
Harbaugh is the leader of the locker room, and he knows how best to maintain the morale and productivity. You do not. What Timmay says makes a whole lot more sense than your nonsensical comment. Maybe you've never been in any kind of leadership position. When someone is stepping up, as O'Korn did, you never replace them with someone who "might" do better and has less experience. People very clearly pick up on that message. Well, some dysfunctional workplaces do just that so perhaps maybe that's where you get your ideas.
October 24th, 2017 at 12:14 AM ^
I own and lead two very successful companies but yeah, never been in a leadership position. Get the fuck outta here with your nonsense. Just because a coach makes a decision doesn't make it the right one. See the post where Arizona puts in a second year player at QB in mid-season and he has torn up the league iwth Heisman type numbers. See Ron Utah's new diary post where the numbers say our offense is worse than Florida's. See the fact that we've had 4 passing TDs this season so far, only more than Georgia Southern and Army who both run triple option.
I could go on and on. And I get it. You don't like me. I don't like you either. You're the typical rubber stamp for the coaches guy and you're full of shit a lot. In fact, you couldn't just post an opinion and let it stand at that by adding to the conversation. You had to explicity say I am wrong and Timmay is right. Because that's what you do.
And your idea of workplaces is so far off it's comical. Somtimes actually, you do promote people who "might" do better because they have an upside that the other guy does not.
Next time you shove your head up your ass as you often do, let me know if you can still that rainbow you've been wishing on.
October 24th, 2017 at 5:10 AM ^
October 24th, 2017 at 9:34 AM ^
I am saying is that I don't think it is only a talent/performance based issue with Peters. It is an odd series of events that Peters was a clear #2 in the Spring game, played well, and then got buried on the depth chart behind O'Korn. I am not speculating as to what the case may be, but I think people are being really obtuse if they don't ackowledge that what has transpired with the QB depth chart in the last six months has not been head scratching. I think there is an unknown variable in the mix that would enhance our understanding of what is happening, and why. Seriously, listen to Harbaugh address the QB position on the radio or at press conferences. Don't read the transcript, listen to him talk. It is clear that he is answering a different question than he is asked and that he isn't capable of giving an answer that fits any currently available narrative.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^
If he is worried about damaging his confidence against mighty Rutgers then Brandon Peters probably isn't the guy for the future.
October 23rd, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^
+ 1 Insightful.
None of us wants our Peters injured.
October 23rd, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
October 23rd, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^