Is Pep Hamilton an issue

Submitted by jimmyshi03 on
In an otherwise terrible piece at Yahoo, Pete Thamel wrote that Hamilton’s reputation in NFL circles was not a good one and that the lack of success of the offense with him on board was “predictable.” Drevno has taken a lot of heat for the play calling and offense in general, but there was the introduction of several new variables on the staff on that side. Wheatley gone, Jay to RB, Fisch out, Hamilton and Frey in. There have been issues at RB, most obviously with pass pro, but I’m willing to give Jay the benefit of the doubt long term, given his success with the TEs. Frey has a track record. That leaves Pep. And, truth be told, he did have bad offenses in Cleveland and with Indianapolis post Deflategate.

YouRFree

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:31 AM ^

He maybe a good enough NFL OC, but not necessarily a good college OC. Compared to Fisch, his design is definitely much worse. That's why I was very worried when Fisch left since Harbaugh gave him so many high phrase for his design of passing plays in the press after many games. You can see the creativity he brough into the team. There is large correlation on Speight's regression withouth Fisch too, since they two are very close toegther.

We don't know who make the offensive call, but it's clearly worse. didn't help the player to succeed.

 

I don't want to give Jay a pass. we need elite coach in every position to compete with OSU, especially when our recruits talent is not on par with them yet. we need every single ounce of advantage on coaching.

M-Dog

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:41 AM ^

His offense does nothing to help his QB out.

O"Korn had to make more and harder reads tonight than McSorley did. 

McSorley was given simple A or B options all night long, with A being some type of run and B being a fairly simple pass.  At no time did I recall seeing him make a progression of passing reads while in a pockt under pressure.

 

  

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:48 AM ^

The difference is McSorley can throw a downfield pass.  Yes, he still has some good fortune on those back shoulder under thrown balls, but the kid looks and throws confidently.

Michigan has struggled for 3 years throwing the ball downfield.   

Rudock was a special cat and if the transfer rule allowed him to enroll that Spring, I think the downfield stuff would have been ready Day 1.  But he wasn't allowed by rules to practice until the summer, so those weeks to develop ending up being in season game weeks.  

O'Korn can not throw a downfield pass consistently to save his life.

It is baffling that this is still a problem at this point.

CLord

October 22nd, 2017 at 2:39 AM ^

This times 10,000.  This summarizes the disconnect between these pro coaches and the college kids.  Other college coaches know how to dumb things down for a QB by giving max 2 choices.  Drevno and Pep are expecting pro level play from a college QB - just ridiculous.  And somehow they've removed his tendency to heave into iso one on one coverage, creating coverage sacks where his receivers could go up for a high point catch or get an PI much like PSU's receivers and tight end did repeatedly.

Harbaugh's last college QB at Stanford happened to be a genius and stud pro QB so he probably thought he'd get that level of play at Michigan.

Either way, this is not on Okorn or anyone really other than on Drevno and Pep and to some extent Harbaugh for allowing them to fuck everything up.  After the season, demote Drevno to OL, fire Pep, and bring in the Don Brown counterpoint - a solid OC who is known to create explosive offenses with medium talent, like Brown did likewise on D at BC and elsewhere.

hfhmilkman

October 22nd, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^

I have to disgree with the statement that NFL does not throw jump balls.  There are tons of big receivers who make their play by going up and making plays on jump balls.  There are also a ton of other big receivers who have prospered by being open despite being covered.  This is what Tarick Black before his injury and Nico Colins hopefully in the future are supposed to bring.  The problem in my opinion is the other young receivers in addition to dropping a lot of balls are not properly running their routes.  I will also disagree that all college programs have simple passing schemes.  Maybe a spread & shred is like this.  However, plenty of programs expect multiple reads from their QB.

rd2w10

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:43 AM ^

The field level replays of o’korn getting sacked seem to show the same routes every time. One guy middle,left and right covered running an in route

tenerson

October 22nd, 2017 at 2:06 AM ^

Listen, there are a lot of problems. Let's make a list. First of all, you have a bunch of young receivers without a proven WR coach which leads to a bunch of young guys not learning very quickly. Then, you have an OL made up of various components that range from not that good to really young. Then you have a QB who is really gifted but rarely has any time or anyone open. You watch tonight and when he had time, there was no one open. When he had someone open, he had no time. The guy can only bail himself out of trouble so many times and to be honest, JO was about the least of the worries. I think Fisch was very good at what he was here for. I think Hamilton isn't. Our passing game design is absolutely the opposite of what is needed. Then, when they find some stuff that works, they quit doing it. I get that it won't work forever but nothing else is working. I watched PSU just keep getting perfect matchups all night. 

I also thought Don Brown was awful tonight. I'm going to give you three things and you tell me if man coverage is a good idea. The first is a RB that excels in space and has elite speed and he really likes catching the ball out of the backfield. The next is a very mobile QB with incredible feel for the pocket and an elite ability to run. The third is a very good slot reciever who excels in short routes and down the field. Does it sound like a good idea for your secondary to be in man and does it sound like a good idea for your LBs and Ss to be matchup up with those guys? No. It doesn't. 

In reply to by MichiganMan14

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:49 AM ^

Hey sir, I know you are an inside source.  Seriously man, what the hell is going on with this program?

Gucci Mane

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:44 AM ^

RBs seem to be improving. I don't think Jay is the issue. But no matter how you slice it, Harbuagh has not apporached offensive coach hiring the same way he has for defense.

OneBadMutha

October 22nd, 2017 at 1:47 AM ^

Harbaugh is the issue. I’m a Harbaugh fan, want to see him here a long time and think he’ll eventually fix this. He fucked up. Too many cooks in the kitchen. No identity. No cohesion. I don’t think it’s a Drevno issue as much as people want to say. What Pep and Frey want to do does not mesh with Drevno’s better offenses in the past. Up until this last recruiting cycle, Michigan has gone for bigger, stronger lineman. Frey has had success taking TE’s and converting them to undersized lineman. Pep wants to run a pass first, down the field offense. Michigan doesn’t have the players for that. It’s going to take another 2 year’s at least to convert this offense to that style successfully. I’m not a fan of a big time program like Michigan who’s in a cold weather climate trying to build a finesse offense that isn’t consistent running between the tackles. I think Harbaugh needs to scrap this plan and go back to a between the tackles, run first, playaction offense. If Harbaugh wants to keep Pep and Frey, he’s got to get rid of Drevno because he doesn’t fit. Then fans will have to accept that we are not going to see anything resembling a potent offense until 2019.

ShruteBeetFarms

October 22nd, 2017 at 2:12 AM ^

Joe Moorehead turned the PSU offense right around from the Christian Sackenberg offense using a guy now that just arm punts.

Tom Herman turned the OSU offense right around with guys that are not great passers. Herman left and the OSU offense struggled. 

We have tall receivers, but don't utilize their height advantage. We have running backs that can catch out of the backfield, but we don't use them.

Drevno  or Drevno and Hamilton need to go. Surely there are young creative OC's at smaller schools that have a great resume and would love to be here.

 

 

 

 

Blue_Goose

October 22nd, 2017 at 8:57 AM ^

I think you wee missing this /s

Please tell me you were missing this.

McSorely may not have played like that all year, but last night he was putting balls all over the field, under pressure, to covered guys where only his receivers could get to them. It was highly impressive and not simply"system success".

Clarence Boddicker

October 22nd, 2017 at 2:49 AM ^

Here's the problem. We have one guy--Hamilton--who wants to go 4-wide. We have another coach--Drevno--who wants to run power I-back sets. We have a third--Frey--who wants to run zone. We have a young team that's clearly having trouble being reponsible for knowing three conceptually different offenses for each game. Harbaugh needs to figure out what kind of offense he wants, find an o.c. who runs that offense and allow the o.c. to play call. 

HL2VCTRS

October 22nd, 2017 at 5:50 AM ^

It always surprises me that Harbaugh went out and hired a great choice on defense. One with a clear vision of what the defense was going to be (aggressive, blitzing, etc.), but hasn’t done the same thing on the offensive side. Other than manball (maybe?) with tight ends, I’m not really sure I know what our identity is. Maybe we just don’t have the personnel to run their vision or maybe there just isn’t a clear vision. Note: I’m still firmly in the pro-Harbaugh camp and think he’ll bring great things. The hiring strategy just always seemed inconsistent.

cbs650

October 22nd, 2017 at 8:59 AM ^

You forgot to mention that they are running Harbaughs offense. The problem is it may not be best for them to run it. Remember he has final say on all play calls. Also remember how bad our defense was when Rich Rod insisted that Greg Williams run a 3-3-5 when he was a 4-3 scheme guy and the personal was probably better suited for a 4-3 scheme.

Leonhall

October 22nd, 2017 at 6:03 AM ^

Is bad, it doesn't help this years QB situation out and it probably won't next season. Changes need to be made offensively. The scheme, particularly passing scheme is terrrible.

1VaBlue1

October 22nd, 2017 at 9:23 AM ^

ABC showed the whole field after that play.  Two recievers on the left side (I couldn't ID them) came together about 15 yards downfield, and then both ran straight for the end zone, along with thier coverage.  Someone ran the wrong route.  Maybe the call wouldn't have wokred anyway, but having someone run the wrong route and take out two options is a play destroyer.  

How many other plays are similar?  Probably most, because freshmen WRs...  And yet, the world will call for Harbaugh's head via proxy for a 'bad offense'.

Ghost of Fritz…

October 22nd, 2017 at 8:00 AM ^

part of the problem. 

The passing concepts are not helping O'Korn. They are taking a mediocre o-line and a QB that has a good arm, but is not very good at the rest of the position, and making it very easy for opposing Ds to exploit the weaknesses. 

Problem goes beyond Pep to JH and Drevno. 

Drevno has the wrong story.  He keeps trying to get water from the dry pump, but we are past the midway point of the season and it is not working. 

Here is a story that would work a lot better, given the youth and personnel issues on offense:  When you have lemons make lemonaid.  Devise game plans and make situational play calls that make it easier rather than harder for your o-line and QB to get it done.  Stop the game plans/play calling that assumes you have a QB and o-line that can do things that they are not yet capable of doing. 

JH:  He needs to look at Penn State 24 months ago (2015 season).  Team was a disaster, especially on offense.  Franklin went out and hired Joe Moorehead from Fordham (!!!).  Controversial at the time, but turned out to be a very smart hire. 

Moorehead's game plan last night was brilliant.  He was a lot smarter last night than JH/Drevno/Pep.  Created receiver mismatches all night with alignment and pre-snap movement.  That is smart football.  That is taking your personnel and maximizing its potential, creating the best probability for the personnel to have success. 

JH/Drevno/Pep?  Nope.  They just keep rolling out the same basic concept on offense each week without much adjustment or intelligent adaptation to Michigan and/or the oponent's personnel.  Just hoping that the water will finally come out of the pump.

JH needs to be his own and his program's sharpest critic and make some coaching staff changes in January/February.  Play action on 4th and 11 captures what has been wrong on offense all year long.

mgobleu

October 22nd, 2017 at 8:19 AM ^

I'm no expert but the schemes don't fit the down and distance. If we need 6 yards, why is every receiver running to Pittsburgh? Your O line is a sieve, why run the longest routes possible to develop? If pep is just assuming guys are going to do their jobs the way guys do in the NFL, then yeah. I guess it could work. But this is college, and not everyone is a freak of nature, and the freaks of nature that you do have are fresh out of high school. Seems like he's expecting NFL'rs to do NFL things rather than play to his player's strengths. (I don't know what those are yet either)