What will be the narrative when we beat Penn St
Will they give us credit, or will they just call Penn St over-rated? I honestly don't care, because we will still have work to do, but after this weekend, the talking heads making excuses for Clemson just astonishes me. We lost to a rival with a back up QB, after only giving up 14pts, and they lost to Syracuse giving up 27pts with what we keep hearing is the best defensive line in football. Their starting QB played most of the 1st half and they replaced him with a 4 star dual threat QB, but they still get credit for losing the game. I think we take this game this weekend. I'm nervous as hell, but I'm nervous no matter who we play.
October 17th, 2017 at 1:53 PM ^
It like people listen to bs media narratives and just go with it without thinking.
Michigan played 4 teams that finished in the top ten last year and beat 2 and were one drive from winning all 4. Yet, Jim has no big wins.
If you go back to 2015, you could also add in BYU who had a hot start and was ranked, if i remember right. People thought they were going to give michigan all kinds of trouble and probably win. Shutout.
The narrative that Harbaugh has not won big games is lazy.
October 18th, 2017 at 2:05 AM ^
the criteria for "big win", or better yet, categorize them into their bigly-ness:
The Retroactive Big Win: It's ho-hum, business as usual at the time against an unranked foe, but becomes bigger and bigger as the opponent proves to be much higher in quality than once thought and finishes ranked. The worst kind of "big win" unless it ends up helping you into the playoff or if the wins by said team over division rivals propel you to the division title, because you didn't get to celebrate it like a big win. No muppets, mostly just a shrug (or even panic about allowing a supposedly bad team to hang like Colorado). Harbaugh count: 2 (Colorado and PSU 2016)
The Phanton Big Win: A win that seems big at the time (as defined by big win imo or the classic), but becomes worse as the opponent is exposed as an overrated fraud. It doesn't end up looking very good at the end of the year, but who cares, you get to feel awesome about it at the time, which is what sports are all about, right? Harbaugh count: 1 (still TBD but Florida 2017)
The Big Win BRO (By Rivalry Only, pun intended): An expected but still satisfying win over an unranked rival you were favored to beat by more than 3 points. Harbaugh count: 1 (MSU 2016, oh and Rutgers, lol jk)
The Big Win IMO (In Margin Only): A three or more score margin over a team ranked 11-25 against whom you are favored by more than 3) and which makes you recalibrate expectations upward. Harbaugh count: 3 (BYU, NW, and Florida 2015)
The Classic Big Win: A win over a top 10 team or a win over a ranked team or rival against whom you are an underdog or less than 4 point favorite (eligible for demotion to phantom big win or big win bro). Harbaugh count: 1 (Wisconsin 2016)
The HUGE Win: A classic big win becomes HUGE when it's a win over a top 5 team or a rival ranked in the top 10. HUGE wins cannot be determined later to be phantoms because of their enormity at the time. Harbaugh count: 0
So I give Harbaugh 8 big wins, but only one classic "big win" and no HUGE wins, which is why it's time to make that happen this weekend.
October 17th, 2017 at 3:11 PM ^
Well, Florida turned out to suck. They're maybe going 5-6 and were very lucky to squeak by TN and KY.
But that's a sidenote. The WI and PSU wins last year were big wins. And the Florida bowl too, maybe not in terms of the quality of the opponent by itself but because of how we destroyed them, it being a bowl, and in Florida. The Colorado win last year was solid if not specatular too. Northwestern at 10-3 in 2015 is a good win.
The PSU one is not getting enough credit. Absolute domination and it didnt feel as big at the time because of how they lost early to Pitt or whatever but turned out to be the best game of Harbaugh's first 2.5 years.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:09 AM ^
First, Wisconsin was 4-0 coming into the game, having beaten LSU in Baton Rouge. So if the lens is through "how did the team look at the time?" that's still a win against a team "that matters". Judged at the time of the game.
And for PSU, their issue was a loss at Pitt, which in some ways is their MSU. So yes, they had a bad loss coming into the game. They still won the B1G, beat Ohio State, and consequently were a team "that matters".
I don't get why some fans are so hell-bent on acting like Harbaugh has never won a big game here. 1-4 against MSU and Ohio State grates to be sure. But this "Harbaugh can't win a big game narrative" grates just as much. Especially when you look at his Stanford and NFL resume.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:13 AM ^
Even though it wasn't a win, I think the FSU bowl game was one of his best coaching jobs here. The team was numb starting the game after having just lost Peppers - a Hiesman finalist, with zero time to practice without him or even adjust the game plan. Then they got absolutely bombed in the first quarter, and were shell-shocked when Butt - All American TE and Mackey winner, lost his knee in the first qtr.
Harbaugh settled them down and managed a game that saw them slowly, but surely, climb back into it, and eventually take the lead. Save for some more rotten luck on a kick return, that game was a win. And what an awesome win it would have been!!
October 17th, 2017 at 2:03 PM ^
Not to mention, I think FSU was the best team Michigan played last year IMO. They had early season struggles, much like USC, but had bounced back to be playing lights out.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:53 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 10:19 AM ^
You're right. I checked their record and apparently Wisconsin was doing that annoying thing where you play a virtual home game, but as the "Visiting Team". It shows in the record books as Wisconsin v. LSU, but your point stands - Green Bay ain't Baton Rouge.
Still a win in a marquee matchup. (I know you're not the one beating the silly "Harbaugh's never won a game against a team that matters" drum, FTR.)
October 17th, 2017 at 9:02 AM ^
Considering the last time Michigan beat a top 5 opponent was about 14 years ago I believe, yeah Michigan and Harbaugh's records in big games leave much to be desired.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:38 AM ^
I agree with you that Harbaugh's record at Michigan was devoid of big wins until the 2015 season.* So we've got that common ground.
*Of course Harbaugh's record at Stanford involved upsetting USC in dramatic fashion, among other signature wins. And his record at the 49ers involved multiple NFC Championship games and a trip to the Super Bowl. All within that 14 year period.
But yeah - he's somehow responsible for the past 14 years at Michigan. Somehow, because ... it fits the narrative you're embracing.
Guh.
October 17th, 2017 at 2:52 PM ^
How many top 5 teams has he played?
OSU twice and that is all i can think of.
October 17th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
Cumong Harbaugh lost a super bowl.
You'll never see Meyer, Franklin, or Dantonio losing a super bowl!
/s I guess.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:23 AM ^
Nah, PSU won the conference last year. I don't care that they were 2-2 after our game. Oklahoma beating OSU was a huge game this year. OSU was 1-1 afterwards. OSU will probably win the Big Ten this year. Find me an Oklahoma fan who would claim beating OSU wasn't a big win.
Fact is that we whooped the Big Ten Champion's ass last year. Dominated Franklin, McSorley, Barkley, etc. We beat them bad enough to ensure that they did not go to the playoffs despite beating the Big Ten team that did and winning the conference.
I would much rather whoop a team that we didn't know was good at the time, but goes on to win their conference, than a team ranked in the top 20 that, as time goes on, we find out were actually frauds.
October 18th, 2017 at 2:16 AM ^
at 1-1. No one doubts that.
PSU was a near disaster. They were coming off a mediocre 7-6 season. They had lost to Pitt, they just lost to us by 39 (!!). They were a mediocre team with an OL that couldn't block that people legitimately wondered if they'd miss a bowl and fire their coach.
They weren't an elite team that just got beat by another elite team but which everyone knew still had a chance at the playoff (OSU this year).
The turnaround was both pretty lucky in terms of bounces (the wins over OSU and Minn) and improbable in terms of individual improvements (got injured guys back, WRs and QB stepped up to make big plays, etc).
October 17th, 2017 at 9:04 AM ^
Holy shit. This might be the dumbest comment I have ever read. Jim and his teams have beaten plenty of teams that matter.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:25 AM ^
In back to back weeks last season we dominated both teams that went to the conference championship game. You're a member of the fanbase we could afford to lose.
October 17th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^
Every win matters.
October 17th, 2017 at 7:41 AM ^
We won by scoring more points than them.
(I think the game comes down to containing Barkley and not coughing up the ball more than twice. If we can shut down Barkley, then McSorley has to win the game against our surprisingly good defensive backs. I think McSorley is underrated by many on the board, but he's also not Baker Mayfield out there.
And the right side of our line jelling a bit would be another good game story/narrative. We saw hints of that last Saturday. If the right side of the line is less of a turnstile, that obviously helps all other phases of the game.)
October 17th, 2017 at 7:42 AM ^
We’ve all seen John throw the ball. When he’s comfortable...he can sling it. Could this be his ‘coming out party’? A better version of the Purdue John O’Korn?
Our D will keep us in the game. Special teams are solid. We’ve now established we can run. Our WR’s and him are bound to click at some point.
Everyone is down and out...everyone has quit believing. People calling out Harbaugh. Questioning him all season.
Could it be? I think it can happen. And I’d love listening to all the boo-birds after a win like this change their tune about everything. A lot of arm chair qb’s who whine every game...insulting a bunch of 19 year old kids who are busting their asses. Winning games but not by enough apparently.
We’re young. It’s a struggle. But we are growing.
The table is set. And John O’Korn has been waiting for this day his whole life. Practicing in his back yard since he was just a little kid. I think it’s his time. And he will show up and play a great game. The TEAM will take care of the rest.
GO BLUE!! Beat Penn State.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:25 AM ^
Right on along with the fact that Michigan turns up their intensity notch against PSU. It's truly a success, pride and tradition battle here in my humble opinion. Penn State usually bends the knee. It's more so this battle than any other teams except Nebraska in the B1G. Yeah sorry Ohio State, you're not in that elite company. You've been doing good though.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:36 AM ^
you basically summed up my feelings about the fan base and the team this year... I said earlier, the people who are bitching and complaining will be the ones who post in the POSBANG after we win... stay positive people.. this is why Harbaugh came to Michigan.. to WIN games just like this one.. when everyone (including a large majority of the fan base) has counted us out before kick off.. well you know what? we have more talent and better coaches than PSU. They have more experience. Just need the men to grow up on Saturday and take care of business in a hostile environment.. It CAN be done! GO BLUE
October 17th, 2017 at 3:50 PM ^
Sorry, but JOK sucks and that ain't changing in a night game in Happy Valley
October 17th, 2017 at 7:55 AM ^
ldevon's Daydream Comes to Satisfying End
Self-Delusion Helps to Overcome 20-3 Beatdown by Nittany Lions
October 17th, 2017 at 9:15 AM ^
Fixed it for you
October 17th, 2017 at 7:56 AM ^
The narrative will be that Penn State is not that good after loosing to Michigan. But until then the Nitts are golden and Frankin is God's gift to college football.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:15 AM ^
C'mon now!
Franklin is only concerned with continuing the "healing process" for that victimized, downtrodden fan base!
If they're to win, it is simply another step in the "healing process."
October 17th, 2017 at 8:01 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 8:43 AM ^
Goes nicely with the nine in a row we won against Penn St. in the Moeller / Lloyd era.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:06 AM ^
Before the season I said we would be 9-1 going into Madison. I still stand by that prediction (never did I think the one loss would come MSU, but whatever). I am strangely confident about this game. I don't think Penn St has the offense or the defense to win. We will play our best game of the year. O'Korn will not be Purdue O'Korn but he won't be Indiana O'Korn. We only score one touchdown but the weapon that is Nordin will be the difference. 19-14/19-17 will be the final.
With this win we cruise through wins vs Rutgers, Minnesota, and Maryland and are squarely in the race when we enter Madison.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:22 AM ^
He'll be Penn State John O'Korn?
October 17th, 2017 at 8:44 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 9:08 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 9:17 AM ^
I still can't believe mean ol' Harbaugh did that to them. Haven't they suffered enough?
#healingprocess
October 17th, 2017 at 8:07 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 8:42 AM ^
We thought you get 5 downs on 1st and goal.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:04 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 8:10 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 8:11 AM ^
Local man, believed to be suffering from drug induced delerium, arrested for disorderly conduct after wandering the streets naked and ranting about false Michigan victory.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:14 AM ^
If Michigan wins I think it will be because they are genuinely better. If UM wins I think it will be a grinder of a game where UM's defense looks as good as they are...elite...and UM's offense grinds out rushing yards and wins a 17-10 game. If that happens I truly think it will make it look like UM is the better team. I just think if UM wins it's a grinder where UM's elite defense is showcased which will make UM look great against the heisman frontrunner.
Frankly, I think UM gets bulldozed (like 31-10) or they win a tight one.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:21 AM ^
Since we beat this team by almost 50 points they have played really well, sparked by a sloppy win in bad weather over OSU. However, I don't buy them. They still have an awful offensive line that our DLine will just maul. They still have a defense that is porous, and not one that their team can depend on to win games. We will only let Barkley go off 1 or 2 times this game, and McSorley will be forced to arm punt over and over. I have thought since last year that PSU is a paper tiger, and we will smash them by 50 again. After that, the narrative will be that Michigan is starting to get right on offense. We will be a scary team when we get just a little better on offense.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:32 AM ^
While I agree with all you say, I hate this thread. It feels like a jinx. Let's beat them, but we need lots of things to fall our way to do so. Let's not jinx it.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:58 AM ^
I need some help from my brother from another mother Stevie Wonder..... "...when you believe in things you don't understand then you suffer. Superstition 'ain't the way..." You can stop turning your hat sideways, leaving the room for big plays, switching seats in the living room, or whatever else that has no effect on reality. This type of thinking puts your importance in the universe well above where it really is. Sorry, but I don't belive in jinxes, or any of that other crap. Go Blue
October 17th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^
You used one of my favorite songs as a retort. Well done. And again, I can't argue with you; I am generally not a believer in higher powers, but I do always have an inkling that there is something happening that we can't understand. I may not let it shape my life, but I also tend to glance at it every now and then from the corner of my eye, whilst keeping my distance, trying to not make it unduly angry.
October 17th, 2017 at 9:41 AM ^
I'd normally agree but the whole world thinks UM is going to get their asses kicked so I think an optimistic thread may do us well lol.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:22 AM ^
Don Brown is a genius.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:28 AM ^
After we beat them last year, PSU rallied to win the BIG. Imagine what they'll do after we beat them this year!
October 17th, 2017 at 8:40 AM ^
Beating Penn State is our birthright.
People will just yawn.
October 17th, 2017 at 8:42 AM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 2:00 PM ^
October 17th, 2017 at 8:46 AM ^
How about we just wait and see what happens? No?