BornInA2

August 6th, 2017 at 1:23 PM ^

Being near the top of a generally "meh" group of Big 10 QBs last year isn't really pre-Heisman talk.

We can beat Air Force with Speight and scrape by Indiana with O'Korn. But with the ongoing recruiting gap, QB play like that doesn't, i don't think, consistently get us wins over OSU, Alabama, Clemson, etc. Beating those teams once every ten years...that's not satisfying, so yes, consternation.

unWavering

August 6th, 2017 at 2:38 PM ^

I'm not saying he's perfect by any means - he's no Sam Darnold. My point is that he was solid overall, and that we should expect improvement over last year. Do I wish we had a Heisman candidate QB? Sure, but we don't so the point is moot. He plays well enough for us to compete for the league championship, so I guess we'll have to "settle" for a QB who is only far above average in the conference.

Ghost of Fritz…

August 6th, 2017 at 3:25 PM ^

the reality is that the formula for Michigan pulling even with OSU beating OSU 50%+ actually does require superb QB play.  'Pretty good' QB play won't get it done.

One of the main reasons M dominated the series from from the mid-80s until the early 2000s was that Michigan almost always had much better QB play.  Every starting Michigan QB from that era played in the NFL. 

Speight (or Peters) is going to have to be one of the best 10 or dozen QBs in the nation to really get Michigan the the level JH has set as the goal.

Ghost of Fritz…

August 6th, 2017 at 4:40 PM ^

But he has to improve to the level of top 10 in the nation for the whole thing to work.  With a gery young team, and given what JH is trying to do on offense, elite QB play is a necessary ingredient.  This is not an offensive scheme that requires a 'pretty good' QB play.

The question is not whether Speight will improve.  The question is whether he can improve to the elite level. 

grumbler

August 6th, 2017 at 6:58 PM ^

His point is that the scheme requires more than just a pretty good quarterback.  It is redicated on punishing teams when they load the box (bring down a safety) by hitting long passes, and punishing them for not bringing dwn the safety by power running.  If the QB can't hit the long passes when the opponent is cheating down, the whole scheme breaks down.

The QB doesn't have to be super in every phase of the game, but has to be credible with the long ball so that the opponent cannot impose his will on the Michigan defense.

Speight could certainly get there, and no choach has a better chance of getting him there, but it is an unknown right now.

Of course, if they really are going with a lot of 4-wideout sets, then the power game isn't a factor some of the time, and neither is the constraint play. But you'd like the team to be able to play the base game against anybody.

Ghost of Fritz…

August 6th, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^

M missed the playoff.  Finished 3rd in the division.  A few plays (and calls) from much bigger things.  A pretty good year.   But not really the best in the nation.  Still a gap to the level of Alabama and Clemson. 

Why?  Lots of reasons.  But one of the biggest reasons was the Speight was pretty good but not great. 

Put it this way.  If Speight had been as good as Sam Danold was for USC, M would likely have played in the NCG.  Would not have lost at Iowa.  OSU game would have been a comfortable win, etc.

I am not a Speight hater.  He was pretty good for a first year starter, all things considerd.

But to beat OSU 50%+ and be a serious playoff conderder, the formula really does require QB play well above the level Speight showed last year.  Maybe he gets to that level this year.  Maybe not. 

But until M has one of the top 10 or so QBs in the nation, it is going to be hard to close the gap with OSU.  Michigan is not running a one read simple offense.  It will take some really high level QB play to make Michigan's offense potent against good defenses.  Not there yet.

funkywolve

August 6th, 2017 at 11:07 PM ^

to beat OSU and be a serious playoff contender, UM is going to need much better oline play.  UM's inability to run the ball against Iowa, OSU and FSU played a big role in all of those losses.  Yes, they will need better QB play too but running the ball 30-40 times/game and barely being able to cobble out 100 yds isn't going to lead them to the promised land either.

Ghost of Fritz…

August 6th, 2017 at 11:15 PM ^

If Sam Darnold had been M's QB in 2016, the all three losses would have been comfortable wins.

Elite QB play can make up for a lot.   Because it forces the opposing DC to adjust the defensive calls, it also can compensate for a non-elite o-line and open up the running game. 

bamf16

August 6th, 2017 at 5:29 PM ^

Seriously? "Why does he have to be a lot better?"

 

Because to get in the playoff, you have to beat the good teams too, and QB play is pretty important.

 

Let's look at the 3 losses (Iowa, OSU, FSU) and the best 3 wins (Colorado, Penn State, Wisconsin)

 

In those 6 games, only twice did he average more than 10 yards per completion (speaks to his downfield struggles and the effects on the running game)

 

Only once did he throw for multiple touchdowns, and that was at Ohio State, when he also threw a pick 6, another pick deep in his own territory, and he fumbled a snap.

 

He threw 18 TD passes last year.  7 of them were in the first two games.  After that, 11 TD passes in 10 games, and a 3 game losing streak to end the season.

 

I know we have people on either extreme, those who think Peters should have already won the job, and those who I think let their HOPE that Speight does well get in the way of their critical evaluation of his play last season. I'm not sure who frustrates me more.

Ghost of Fritz…

August 6th, 2017 at 11:24 PM ^

Speight will have to be A LOT better in 2017.

First, this is a very young team and there are real uncertainties in the defensive backfield.  M will have a very good D, but it won't be as good as in 2016, at least not in the first half of the season.  So the offense will have to be more consistent and better than in 2016.  Speight and the offense will have to carry the team to wins on days when the youth is showing on defense.

Second, Speight was not great against good Ds.  To convert the close losses into wins, Speight will have to be a lot better.  He will have to be as good against Iowa, OSU, FSU as he was against Maryland.  That is a big jump. 

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

August 6th, 2017 at 1:08 PM ^

are running hot" at so many positions. Speight's deep struggles are disappointing especially with the size and speed at WR to get deep. Very excited to hear Ty has raised his game. If he ran with some violence, he could be a monster in the rotation - considering he already picks up yards simply with good lean at the end. Big if. I think our ST will be fantastic this year. So many athletes and close battles at DB and LB that the 2nd string will attack those opportunities to fight for playing time. I am sure JH will have them ready for UF.

jblaze

August 6th, 2017 at 1:32 PM ^

It's not a criticism of UNBig, since we know he's legit, but of the actual content itself. Aside from some practice schedules, I could have written that post from 1,000 miles away. Still, as you pointed out it's good to not hear any surprises from an insider.

Ezeh-E

August 6th, 2017 at 2:04 PM ^

Not a whole not "new"

but I didn't know Kugler was still holding onto his spot, that Woods was the next man up for safety (I thought it was Kovacs, though I know he's the backup Viper, too), Bunting was clear TE1, and I was surprised that after one week there wasn't even one ascending name for CB.

Pickle Rick

August 6th, 2017 at 4:34 PM ^

The expectations for younger players to come in and make an instant impact is no longer unrealistic.

Speight is also almost 23. Let's not pretend he was a wide eyed 18 year old true freshman last year.

JMK

August 6th, 2017 at 1:38 PM ^

It's not so surprising that people would hope themselves into believing Peters will start over Speight. Many of us don't trust QBs (or OL) selected by Hoke and Borges but do trust that Harbaugh has a better eye for talent and that his offensive players won't have the Hoke/Borges/Nuss stink on them. Many of us also don't think that Speight was all that great last year, not when his work is considered as a whole (and he had some stinkers pre-injury to all those who are writing some of his poor play off as solely injury related). So, it probably is unrealistic that Peters will beat out Speight, but I don't think it's wholly unreasonable to talk oneself into believing it could happen.

SD Larry

August 6th, 2017 at 1:52 PM ^

UMBig11.  At SeaTac airport, back from Alaska and your write up and the Chris Hinton committment put me in the flow for summer camp and football season already.  Just in the span of reading 3 threads. Thanks for making a very long layover most enjoyable !

redwhiteandMGOBLUE

August 6th, 2017 at 2:58 PM ^

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/hello-karan-higdon#comment-3023273

 

Michigan just got one hell of a player and ambassador. We're extremely excited! My mission was to simply make him aware of what Michigan was and is about. We did that. Iowa did a phenomenal job with him and there was nothing negative about them. There was simply too much positive about Michigan. He cannot wait to bring some "Juice" to Ann Arbor!

Berkley@MainMan

August 6th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^

He knows Higdon's HS Coach as well. There was a lot of good stuff said in Big 11's post. Why are we bickering about the QB position again? It's been said I don't know how many times,that with our HC, QB play should not be a worry. Above average, to great play is what we can expect. Above average is it seems is all well need with a better sounding run game.

UofM Die Hard …

August 6th, 2017 at 2:21 PM ^

Really really looking forward to seeing him. If he is pushing for the top spot over Evans we are in great shape. And Ty no less too. Great group. And Hudson, can't wait to see him.

maize-blue

August 6th, 2017 at 2:25 PM ^

My message to the national talking heads: The news of this team's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Santa Clause

August 6th, 2017 at 2:31 PM ^

If Speight doesn't enter the NFL Draft after this season next years QB battle will be even more debated, especially if Speight doesn't significantly improve.

Berkley@MainMan

August 6th, 2017 at 11:25 PM ^

Essentially missed his Fr season from a football standpoint. He is still learning protections, which many young backs struggle with. Hell, most running backs are still not good at it when they go pro. At Michigan you dont get on the field unless you can be counted on in that area, plain and simple. Walker has recently been named," the best inside runner," of all of them, so yea, give the guy a chance. Inside running is where Evans still has much to prove. That fact has been pointed out on this site at least a couple times in the last few weeks, and is likely why he is being pushed. All of these kids are good, and It's great news to have 3 backs that can help. EDIT: You guys are getting me fired up on Higdon!! I saw it on his HS film, and on his carries thus far here. The kid is special!! Nice to see some others joining me all across *Fandomland!!! *~ Fandomland, is a state of being which lies between, The Underverse and Valhalla. It is similar,and sometimes confused with the more well known, Purgatory.The biggest difference being Fandomland's much stricter requirements for entry into the promise land of Immortality. :)