Post Camp Rumblings and Nuggets.
We're almost there folks. Crazy how fast the offseason can go. I'll try to keep this short and sweet but I got some clarification to some of the rumors and performance evaluations that weve been seen suggested over the last few weeks.
*Speight is legit and has simply done a great job. He won the spot plain and simple. O'korn is going to be a hell of a backup. There is a walk-on QB that is tearing it up also. Not sure of his name...but Harbaugh has taken notice.
* Amarah Darboh is making a leap. He has been described as a "man" out there and may challenge Jehu for top shotta in the WR stable. Darboh's strength and hands have been setting him apart this camp.
* The freshman recievers are the real deal. McDoom is turning heads and will play. Nate Johnson is more than holding his own but the jewel of them all is Kekoa. He has been as advertised and should factor into the rotation right away.
* Devin Asiasi is going to play and is standing out in a crowded TE group. His size and athleticism is showing and he has big time potential.
* There is much news in terms of Running Back. Deveon is your starter. Ty has had a solid camp and is the #2. The Chris Evans hype is real and he has flashed quite a bit in camp. He will see snaps in 3rd down situations and has a terrific knack for route running. Higdon is finally back after a meniscus operation that shelved him for the past 2 months and a battle with mono (contracted while volunteering in nursing home in spring). He will factor in the rotation and has hit the ground running well the last week. Higdon is the strongest back on the team and is also likley the fastest. There is an medical hiccup with Drake and I wont divulge how severe or minor it is at this time. There is no positive news to report of Kareem Walker and Evans was moved to RB for a reason.
* There is certainly a confidence with this group. They realize that they have everything to play for this year. They also realize that Michigan State and Ohio State are the mountains in the way.
* Aside from Drake's issue there are no notable medical developments. Team is banged up because Harbaugh practices them like Harbaugh practices. They are very anxious to put some actualization to the hype. Tune in Saturday....it should be fun.
If any of this was redundant or not interesting I apologize. I'm just sharing some info I've gotten the past week or so. Go Blue!!!
August 31st, 2016 at 9:52 AM ^
And started game 1 as a freshman. What's your point?
August 31st, 2016 at 10:11 AM ^
No he didn't. Hart was third string entering game 1 as a freshman. Underwood got hurt almost immediately, and Hart's performance catapulted him up the depth chart.
August 31st, 2016 at 10:46 AM ^
Underwood wasn't really hurt, he was just absolutely terrible. To save face a bit, they called it an injury to give Hart a bigger role. We all know what happened next, and Hart never looked back.
If Carr had played Hart from game 1, we beat ND that year. No doubt, no doubt in my mind, (says Uncle Rico).
August 31st, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^
He finally saw action in the fourth game of his freshman yea. Thomas likewise was not a major contributor early in 1997. And he only played against Ohio State because Clarence Williams, and Chris Howard were banged up. In fact, Michigan's fullback that day had the longest run from scrimmage a play after the longest pass play of the game, a deep crossing pass to Woodson Sir Charles practically won that game snglehandedly that day.
August 31st, 2016 at 10:34 AM ^
Actually, Hart didn't start until the thrid or fourth game his freshman year. The starters the first two games were David Underwood and either Rembert or Jackson against ND.
August 31st, 2016 at 11:17 AM ^
| Rushing | |||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player | School | Att | Yds | Avg | |||||||||
| Michael Hart | Michigan | 21 | 83 | 4.0 | |||||||||
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2005-01-01-michigan.html
not terrible for a freshman running back
August 31st, 2016 at 5:58 PM ^
My point was that elite RBs (like Hart) usually start/play early as freshman.
Who cares what his HS rating was?
August 31st, 2016 at 12:48 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 1:21 AM ^
A-Train ran the ball 130 times for 529 and 5 TDs his true freshman year...he also returned a handful of kickoffs.
Last year Jake Rudock had the 2nd most rushing attempts on the entire team. 58.
Hell De'Veon went 180 for 753 and 6 TDs...basically A-Train with 50 more carries.
...I'd say Thomas showed plenty his freshman year. When you compare him to Hart...well no. But my point was elite guys usually contribute their true freshman year.
A-Train's freshman year was better than Drake Johnson and Derrick Green combined last year.
August 31st, 2016 at 2:28 AM ^
Thomas was running behind Jon Jansen, Jeff Backus, Steve Hutchinson, Steve Frazier (or Chris Zieman) and Dave Brandt. It's an exaggeration to say I could gain 4 YPC behind that line, but not much. Thomas had to learn how to run in college. Looking at him you could tell that in HS he could run through or away from pretty much everyone on the field. He had no technique because he hadn't needed any in HS.
August 31st, 2016 at 8:43 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 10:29 AM ^
It's easy to look back and rattle off those guys but Jansen was the only starter on the oline who had started in previous yrs. Hutchinson and Zieman were moved from dline to oline in the spring. It was a solid group but I think sometimes what the olinemen did later in their careers (college and pro) tends to factor into how people view the '97 oline.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:45 PM ^
Good point. They were a real source of concern going into the season.
And, let's be fair: Michigan's offense in 1997 wasn't great. But it was enough.
August 31st, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 6:39 AM ^
that RBs who are going to end up starting and being any good here start showing their stuff as true freshmen. In general, a running back who plays only minimally as a freshman, or who redshirts for reasons other than injury is probably not going to amount to much.
August 31st, 2016 at 9:27 AM ^
This.
You know what a RB has the minute they step on the practice field.
August 31st, 2016 at 3:42 PM ^
The positive flip side of that coin is that if the staff looks at the RB stable for 2017 and 2018 and sees some talent/depth problems, they can pretty much turn on the recruiting juice and go hard after star RBs in the 2017 and 2018 class and be fine by the very next season. Not that they aren't trying had now, but if a star RB in 2017 or 2018 goes from "nice to have" to "must have", I'd assume the staff's time & priorities might shift a bit.
Plus remember that with the prolifieration of the "blocky/catchy" guys at the FB, H-Back, and TE slots, a true RB might not be as critical if we are stacked in those other positions.
Contract that with OL or other positions where it's hard to project, and even most "sure bets" on the OL (if they exist) still don't fill their role until the 2nd or 3rd year on campus.
August 31st, 2016 at 3:52 PM ^
I really like Dillion and, especially, Samuels. Even if we don't land the big fish, I think we're going to be in good hands with those guys.
August 31st, 2016 at 10:57 AM ^
was better as a freshman than any of the guys he challenged in Michigan's record books as a running back. Certainly he outstone Green and Drake. Johnson's star-crossed record at Michigan is almost like Anthony Bass. Hart also beat out Alabama high-end recruit Max Martin.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:44 PM ^
I can't argue with those A-Train stats. Of course back then 500 yards didn't seem like much when guys like Biakabatuka and Wheatley were still fresh in memory, but that is indeed a healthy contribution.
August 31st, 2016 at 1:23 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 1:08 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 1:14 AM ^
I disagree...there are STILL people on this board who can't get over that at one time Morris was a 5* can't miss type QB. Part of that is him being a local kid too though...whereas I think people let Green go a lot quicker.
The reason I disagree is because there've been multiple threads, especially the depth chart threads where people swear up and down Walker is playing this year...and it's based on nothing more than HS hype. The same folks are in the redshirt thread.
I feel like I'm getting too down on the kid when I was to make clear...he can be a GREAT back, hell, he can beat the odds and be ELITE. It's way too early to tell. But the writing has been on the wall for awhile that it's probably best he redshirt. And the fact that he's not contributing early, to me, is fair warning that he's not going to be a 5* top 5 RB in the country, elite, potential 1st round player. That doesn't mean he can't be a fine RB...it just acknowledges that Fournette and Cook and co. are frickin MONSTERS!
August 31st, 2016 at 1:36 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 1:57 AM ^
As a freshman he found himself behind two future NFL RBs, Ricky Powers and Tyrone Wheately, and still he managed a 140 yd 2 TD game against Purdue.
Barry Sanders, like almost all players from his generation and previous, found themselves buried on depth charts which may have been 200+ players deep. So it is probably best to look at their sophomore years for their first contributions.
August 31st, 2016 at 9:29 AM ^
Barry Sanders was (erroneously) behind Thurmon Thomas.
And people knew he was special almost immediately.
August 31st, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^
Thurman Thomas was pretty bad ass in his own right. Left Oklahoma St the leading rusher in school history. Was apart of the Bills teams in the 90's to go to 4 straigt super bowls. Holds multiple Bills records. College All American, 7th in the Heisman vote as a senior. College HoF, Pro Football HoF, retired numbers.
Not so erroneous to think a Senior Thomas would beat out a Sophomore Sanders.
August 31st, 2016 at 1:41 AM ^
Ricky Powers as a Freshman in 1990 was probably Michigan's first elite RB that contributed as a freshman. But to your point, at least for Michigan, since Ricky Powers all of Michigan's elite RBs have had significant freshman contributions. It is also notable that Michigan hasn't had an elite running back since Mike Hart's senior season.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:42 PM ^
Toussaint had a pretty good year in 2011, but yeah, since Hart that's been about it for running backs (Denard on the other hand...)...
August 31st, 2016 at 3:30 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
Everything I've heard about him was grades related, with one mention of a concussion. I haven't heard anything about his ability not being what was expected. Assuming he gets the stuff off the field sorted out and stays healthy, there's nothing to say he can't have a great career.
August 31st, 2016 at 9:43 AM ^
We should be careful burying these 5 star guys. See Ty Isaac, someone who looked like a holy lock to transfer again, who now appears to be the #2 back and the heir apparent for next year. These guys are 5 stars for a reason, and there could be a light just waiting to go on for Walker. He's young, let's give him some time. We knew he wasn't Fournette when he came in.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:23 AM ^
but I'll beleive the Higdon assesment when I see it.
Good to hear all the skill position hype too, but I still say 90% of this teams success will rest on the O-line play.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:24 AM ^
For as well as Rudock played last year...it is kind of weird to me that EVERYTHING out of fall camp, including insight directly from coaches, is that both QBs are better and WAY ahead of Rudock last year.
It's exciting, but it's also like..."how?"
And then you think "HARBAUGH."
Honestly, outside of Rudock, who is the last QB that truly developed at Michigan? Not Henne and no one after him. Probably Navarre or Brady?
That's 13, 14, 15, 16 years ago!
Now from all accounts we have TWO guys that have gotten better and improved. It just feels weird, odd, almost too good to be true.
It's sounding like we have two guys who can start at QB. lol, that just makes me laugh because sure we had Devin/Denard...but that seems like such a novelty after year after year where it was just the norm at Michigan.
August 31st, 2016 at 1:03 AM ^
absolutely "developed" while at Michigan. His freshman year, all he basically did was chuck the ball up and let Braylon Edwards go up and high-point it. Edwards may have been the best jump-ball receiver in Michigan history, and was definitely the best jump-ball guy in the country that year.
His Junior year in 2006 when Michigan came pretty much 1 drive away from playing for the national title, he was excellent.
His senior year was marred by a shoulder injury that ruined the end of his season, and yeah, the start of the season had some serious issues as well. But you can't say he didn't develop.
August 31st, 2016 at 1:25 AM ^
I was being dramatic...that's my fault. Poorly worded.
With that said...Henne is literally known a Mr. Robot by some and a guy who didn't develop to his full potential at Michigan. Not that he wasn't one of the best ever...but raise your hand if that Citrus Bowl still pisses you off a little even though we won and waxed Urbs because you saw what you thought you'd see for 2+ years.
Even before Henne got hurt his senior year, more than just the irrational message board poster was looking towards Mallett (until they actually saw Mallett). That usually doesn't happen to a 4-year starting senior QB. With or without the hype Big Tex brought to A2.
August 31st, 2016 at 2:04 AM ^
I think even more than Navarre, Henne was stricken with cleats of concrete. And as for the clamoring for Mallett, I'm fairly confident saying that most people, myself included, didn't understand that Henne played much of the season with a banged up shoulder. Besides, Carr and company were never, until that Citrus Bowl, inclined to be anything but ultra conservative. Even with Drew Henson the Michigan offense wasn't anything someone might describe as exciting.
August 31st, 2016 at 11:13 AM ^
a lot of angst about Henne, like Navarre, other than the fact that he couldn't beat Ohio State. He beat MSU four straight times, including the Halloween Night Braylonfest, in games where he repeatedly had to bring Michigan back late to win.
With Henne Michigan went to the Rose Bowl twice, won Lloyd's last game against Florida, maybe the best win of that team's era beating the former defending champs and he completed one of the most signature moment passes in school history in the win over Penn State. And he was starter in the most pinnacle contest in recent school history in 2006 and the absolute nadir event the following season. He had some real rollercoaster experiences as a four-year starter.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:54 PM ^
I wasn't mad about Henne after the Citrus Bowl.
I was mad about the entire offensive system and coaching staff.
The team that beat a terrifically talented Florida team sandwiched between two national championship seasons was aggressive, proactive, diverse, fast, and unrelenting. They introduced new, well-designed schemes borrowing concepts from shotgun spreads, opened the throttle to wide open from the beginning.
The coaching processes that produced that win on that day could have and would have produced a dominant, frighteningly good dynasty for most of the previous, disappointing eight years. It would have beaten App State in that particular season. It would have played USC toe-to-toe in the previous Rose Bowl. It would have beaten OSU at least once (maybe three times) in the Henne/Hart career. It would have challenged for national championships that were never really in reach.
That game was, at the same time, both a validation of Carr's program and a revealing epitaph of it.
August 31st, 2016 at 6:36 PM ^
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August 31st, 2016 at 1:06 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 9:45 AM ^
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August 31st, 2016 at 1:19 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 1:33 AM ^
Again, I was being overly dramatic...it happens.
Denard certainly developed. But if O'Korn and Speight are what it sounds like they are...and seeing Rudock turn into what he turned into?
I'm sorry, Henne and Denard BOTH don't compare.
O'Korn at least was a starter at Houston. SPEIGHT though?! If you would've told this board Wilton Speight would be the starting QB for Michigan this time last year. You would've been laughed at or people would've said "we're doomed."
That kid has worked his ASS off to improve as a quarterback. And now he's a starter and ahead of Rudock?!
I'm not saying he's David Cone or those 2 in '08...but damn, that's a huge progression in just a year for a young player that should continue to get better if he continues to improve.
IMO, we haven't seen that in quite some time. Sure guys get better because they get older and more experienced. That's an obvious. IMO, Henne and Denard are just that.
But from everything I'm reading this fall and from what I saw with my own eyes out of Rudock. I tip my cap to the head coach, the OC and Mr. Fisch because that's just talented and effective coaching in my book. Thankfully we'll never know what Wilton would've looked like under previous coaching.
Even if you take what we saw from Speight last year until now this is damn impressive. Harbaugh gets hype on hype...but the guys wins and develops QBs.
August 31st, 2016 at 8:28 AM ^
August 31st, 2016 at 7:22 AM ^
"Night and Day." You are basing that off ... what? The Citrus Bowl? Henne was banged up most of that season but he was healthy for Appalachian State and the first half of Oregon and he flat out sucked.
August 31st, 2016 at 10:03 AM ^
To be fair, Rudock was pretty awful for the first 1/4-1/3 of the season. He also stepped on campus a few days before camp started. To take it literally, that "*at this point in camp*" if we weren't better than last year I would be very worried.
August 31st, 2016 at 10:47 AM ^
Speight and O'Korn have been in the system for over a year. I would hope their knowledge of the system/playbook is much more advanced now then a year ago. I've taken the comments about the QB position being ahead of where it was last year at this point as good news, but at the same time the bar that was set last year at this time wasn't very high.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:24 AM ^
Cool nugs. But, I have a really hard time believing that Karan Higdon is the strongest back on the team. De'Veon Smith is built like a brick shithouse and has about 20-30 lbs on him.
August 31st, 2016 at 12:34 AM ^
Strongest could be a reference to talent and not physical strength.