Michigan is the problem at Michigan
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:39 AM ^
Nevermind top 2, when was the last time we beat a top 25 team? Our biggest wins in the past 4 years are against 6-6 OSU, 6-6 MSU, 8-4 Nebraska, 8-4 Notre Dame, and 11-3 Virginia tech team that nobody thought deserved to be in the sugar bowl.
October 3rd, 2014 at 7:40 PM ^
When, and how many times, did Bo every beat a #2 team. Let's keep things in perspective. Our ideal is Bo -- a big part of the problem -- but he didn't beat such highly ranked teams much.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:18 AM ^
That is orders of magnitude better than us the last 2 seasons.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 AM ^
versus what I saw from Bellomy. You like apples? The PAC 12 is also a better conference than the BIG 10, so theres that.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:30 AM ^
Arizona prior to RR : 4-8
1st Year: 8-5 + win over #10 USC
2nd Year: 8-5 + win over #5 Oregon
3rd Year: 5-0 + win over #2 Oregon
Sure looks like he is primed for three consecutive seasons better than Hoke's.
Funny how he's been able to replicate his success everywhere he's been EXCEPT HERE.
October 3rd, 2014 at 6:59 AM ^
Boy it sure is hard to succeed when a program is being sabotaged by those around you. RR may not have done everything right, and it's no doubt that he lacked a signature defense, but he sure seemed like he had the traits of a Michigan man. Serves the program right for sacking the guy.
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October 3rd, 2014 at 7:32 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 4:46 AM ^
If you're going to make comparisons, compare their entire careers, hoke had an easy path because he was lloyds little pet ... he got his own MAC team .... how easy is it to recruit people who power conferences aren't pursuing heavily when all you have to say is " i was lloyd carr's super special assistant coach, don't you like me?"
Then he went to his next HC job and sucked ass.
RR is in the pac12, just beat a team that cleaned up sparty, and did it with players that weren't even highly rated. Guess who's gonna get a lot of good recruits next year? Guess who's got a quarterback that looks like he might be a serious national contender for the next couple years
If you think this is the last time you're going to get a dose of "why did we fire that guy" you're in for a bad time.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:17 AM ^
Wow, he just beat the #2 team in the country, a team that beat MSU. With a redshirt freshman QB who threw, what, over 70 times last game vs Cal? And our QB's are still hampered by issues....
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:25 AM ^
is clearly NOT the #2 team in the nation.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:27 AM ^
Not the team who lost to them?
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:29 AM ^
They stomped MSU so they can't be that bad.....what would Michigan do against Oregon if they played tonight?
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:31 AM ^
Arizona would steamroll every single team in the Big Ten.
October 3rd, 2014 at 6:06 AM ^
They nearly lost to Cal at home and limped past UTSA. They're still going to lose some games this year
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:08 AM ^
But they're winning a few of the important ones pretty impressively.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:59 AM ^
With a freshman QB who is learning the game/system as he goes! Sure they'll lose some more games this year but the future looks really bright for AZ football.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:54 AM ^
they'd be damned grateful the scoreboard doesn't count to 3 digits.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:41 AM ^
Want some marshmellows with your cup of denial?
October 3rd, 2014 at 7:43 PM ^
Stupid response: of course Oregon is not #2 anymore. Because Arizona beat them. Nobody was saying they weren't #2 BEFORE the game.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:41 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:21 AM ^
Cognative dissosance will still remain strong in the people who drove this guy out of town. Eat crow. Thanks dickheads.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:24 AM ^
In same timeline (since RR hire)
RR @ Zona... 21-10, 2 bowl wins, 3 wins against top 5 teams (one each year) with 3 different QBs and a true freshman running back tonight. Took over a 4-8 Zona team with an unranked recruiting class in 2012.
Hoke @ UM... 17-14, 2 bowl losses, 0 wins against Top 5 teams with Denard Robinson and Devin Gardner (top tier QB recruits) and a completely stocked cupboard on offense and 2 years of his own recruits. Took a 11-2 UM team to 8-5, 7-6, 2-3.
WOW!!!! Thats perspective. Oh yeah, and the PAC 12 is a better conference.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:28 AM ^
RR chanting "DEFENSE DEFENSE" with his team in the locker room. Oh Boy.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:29 AM ^
How bout them whildcaatss...
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:32 AM ^
We could make TWIS for a game Michigan wasn't even involved in?
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:49 AM ^
Here are some thoughts
- The truth is RR had trouble with the talent he had in running the offense against good to great defenses in his time here.
- He was left with shit on offense after Carr left with Hart, Henne, etc
- He had a very good QB who totally didnt fit his system - that QB transferred
- The QBs in 2008 were ... challenged
- I think if Tate Forcier had his mind right - Tate reminded me a lot at his best as this QB we saw tonight with AZ - history may have been different
- If Tate was a QB who had been here 4 years and developed, Denard would have been a RB/scat back/slot guy who would be a Pervin Harcy/Sproles hybrid type.
- What made WVU offenses great was not just Pat White - but he had a stud RB behind him, so Tate + Denard together in a backfield would have been somewhat similar.
- I dont think Denard could take the pounding of 25 runs a game as a pure RB but dude ran 15-18 times often as a QB so I think he could have been that Percy Harvin/Sproles type I am speaking of.
- We saw glimpes of this when 1 armed Denard was behind Devin at QB in a few game late in 2012. Imagine a 2 armed Denard in that role with a JR/SR Tate Forcier.
- The defense sucked, no way around it
- RR was never given the resources that Hoke has been lathered in. Thats on the admin
- RR never had the institutional support
- The team had given up by the end of year 3. The Miss St loss was horrific. The writing was on the wall. He did have to go at that point IMO.
- That does not mean RR was not a good coach. It just didnt work here for any number of reasons.
- RR was not a great recruiter here, he could have done better but also had bad luck. His classes were ranked high but we didnt always see it on the field.
- I now look back at 2011 and what I see is Borges basically running a version of RR's offense to take advantage of Denard's strength, and mixed with a competent DC it provided good results with the caveat OSU was down and we werent great but good.
- But if you had provided a GMatt type of DC to RR all these years the story may have turned out different. You saw glimpses of that in 2011.
- ..the caveat being the OL would have been an issue for anyone in 2012 due to the donut hole of that 2010 class.
- Even with a horrid defense I wonder if Tate had stayed and been our QB and developed and Denard our "weapon" how much more dangerous those offenses would have been - I think we'd have won 2 more games a year in that scenario in 2009/2010.
- I dont remember an OL or DL as cool as what I saw tonight in those 3 years of RR. Wish we had seen that - games are won on the lines, something UM had for 40 years.
Anyhow I dont think everyone is arguing RR would have succeeded here - he almost had no chance with some of the lack of support both within the AD and in terms of coaching budget. But we can see he is no turnip that fell off a cart - he is a good coach and I wish him the best. For $500K more we would have saved us years of headaches and all the costs coming down the line to pay for Hoke and Brandon's contracts along with some new coach.
TL;DR - Despite all the crapola that happened to RR here I wonder how history would have changed if Forcier had his head right and developed into an advanced version off that QB we saw tonight. That would have put Denard out of the QB role and into the "weapon role", 20+ touches a game at various positions. And our backfield would have had 2 amazing weapons rather than teams only focusing on Denard and his challenged arm.
October 3rd, 2014 at 5:07 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^
If we're talking hypotheticals, what about Denard at QB and Sam McGuffie and then Dee Hart at RB. It was amazing how much Denard improved from 2009 to 2010... give him another year with the same coaches and in the same system and with everyone back on offense and he would've been an absolute freak in 2011. Probably a favorite for the Heisman if we had a defense like Mattison's that year.
Denard's QB stat's were great under Rich Rod in 2010 even though he was still learning because RR knew how to use him.
October 3rd, 2014 at 7:51 PM ^
Further hypothetical: if Mallett and Manningham had stayed and RR had some real offensive talent to work with his first year -- instead of Threet and Sheridan. Even with what he had, the offense was exciting at times.
October 3rd, 2014 at 3:00 AM ^
Someday the Wolverines will be good again. That day is not today. I can't do much besides trying to raise awareness of institutional ineptitude among my friends and educating myself about all the things we've been doing to thwart our own best efforts. They can never take my reason or my music degree!
October 3rd, 2014 at 3:16 AM ^
He doesn't have the weight of all that tradition and history and can just be his slightly goofy self and nobody's going to give him any shit about it. He got the DC he should have had here, and he's prospering in a more wide open conference. I'm happy for him. He's where he should be.
I just hope for our sake we don't play them in a bowl game any time soon, because they'd run us out of the stadium.
October 3rd, 2014 at 4:10 AM ^
It most likely will not be this season. Michigan will have no bowl or will have to play a MAC team in the new ford motors bowl game in Detroit!
October 3rd, 2014 at 3:31 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 4:39 AM ^
very astute.
You do know why his defense sucked here, and why it does not in arizona, right?
It's called entitlement, you gave the right guy for the job no money to surround himself with people who would make the program successful
then you fire him, go out and hire some dude who sucks ass at all levels, and give him all the money in the world to fail
I've been bitching about RR not getting a chance since the day people even talked about firing him (the day he was hired) ...
I'm enjoying seeing everyone else come out of the woodwork and admit what a collosal fuckup this whole thing was. The first time I heard brady hoke talk I knew we were fucked. I'd be surprised if he has enough cognitive function to pilot an automobile down the highway.
October 3rd, 2014 at 5:50 AM ^
The story is more complex than you apparently realize.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
Arizona is still building depth on defense. It's hard to turn around an entire team on offense and defense at the same time. Luckily for RR his roster wasn't in complete shambles at Arizona. It was bad, don't get me wrong, very bad, but nothing close to the crap he took over at Michigan.
He didn't have a defense, special teams, or offense when he took over Michigan. The best players were on defense but he lost a few playmakers on defense that he had after the first year. He brought in a lot of offensive guys to install his system then had to rebuild the defense and special teams as well. It was a total rebuild. That's the difference between the slower rebuild at Michigan when compared to Arizona.
In the long run Michigan and Arizona would both flourish with a coach as great as RR. He can flat out coach period, there is no reason he would succeed long term at historically bad Arizona but fail long term at Michigan. Arizona had time to give him, Michigan didn't and that's why Michigan is still floundering. They didn't see an elite coach right in front of them because they couldn't see past the bottom line. They never saw the improvement being made and the youth and roster issues that RR was dealing with.
It's like a team failing to look at OPS and WHIP and instead looking at only batting average and wins to judge players statistical output in baseball. You have to really know what you are doing when you evaluate coaches. RR results will continue to show how wrong Michigan was because his teams will always keep getting better as all elite coaches do when they have their systems fully installed.
October 3rd, 2014 at 4:02 AM ^
Go to Nick Saban and offer him $20M/year
That's the only thing that's going to work at this point.
October 3rd, 2014 at 5:57 AM ^
Let's get some perspective. I wish Rich Rodriguez the best, but the jury is out on Arizona this year. They needed a Hail Mary to beat Cal, and they have lost the last two to their main rival, Arizona State.
What good does it do to keep up this self-flagellation? Michigan will continue to fail by its own terms, or turn it around, but it will have nothing to do with Rich Rodriguez.
That being said, I disagreed with the decision to fire Rich Rodriguez, and didn't like the way Dave Brandon inserted himself into the late-season press conferences in 2010, let Rodriguez twist in the wind, then fired him and hired a guy not remotely as accomplished. But let's be clear about one thing: we have to focus on the decisions we can make right now, in the fall of 2014, beginning with driving out our sociopathic charalatan of an Althletic Director.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:06 AM ^
There is nothing to be gained by continuously bringing up past events that can't be changed and have no bearing except insofar as we can learn from past mistakes. Reading the MLive-level of discourse that seems to have invaded this site, I don't think we're doing a good job of that.
October 3rd, 2014 at 6:08 AM ^
It's funny that now all of RichRod's problems are Michigan's fault and now all of Hoke's problems are his and Dave Brandon's fault. RR made mistakes while he was here. He had a defense regressing just as bad as our offense currently is and his offense tended to flounder badly in big games. You can't put all the blame on the Michigan Illuminati for RichRod's failures here
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:15 AM ^
The politics in aa are huge.
October 3rd, 2014 at 6:25 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 6:37 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 6:44 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 6:52 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 8:54 AM ^
on the blog these days. Rehashing the past instead of trying to go forward is never helpful and some see the past the way they want to. I'm super happy for Rich Rod (remember all the fan support with the "in rod we trust" shirts? hmmm....), but he gone.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
The people commenting on the blog are the problem.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:52 PM ^
Keep telling yourself that. And when he wins a PAC title one day maybe then your ignorance will fade and you will finally admit to being completely wrong about him?
Oh and his offensive lineman were pretty damn good. Maybe he was trying to revamp many other positons that needed help because of the tire fire of a roster left behind by the past coaching staff. Hard to rebuild an entire offense and defense while still trying to replenish positions of luxury like our awesome offensive line. Rich Rod pretty much always has a great offensive line wherever he goes. Just because Brady Hoke and company can never field a competent offensive line does not mean it would have been an issue with RR as the head coach.
October 3rd, 2014 at 6:44 AM ^
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