Wallaby Court

January 4th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^

Two things. First, it was a lot harder to throw that kind of money around when players have no legitimate (or quasilegitimate) ways to earn money from their status. Buying a key recruit's mom a house or making sure they have a few thousand dollars to pay bills and have fun is one thing. This purported operation is several orders of magnitude bigger.

Second, the SEC reputedly had something of a gentlemen's agreement regarding the use of bagmen. Seth has touched on this previously in podcasts. Teams broadly agreed to a ceiling on the maximum offer a team could make to a recruit and what kinds of teams could make those offers. Going over that ceiling or stepping out of line resulted in a report to the NCAA. Now that players have access to NIL deals, the other schools cannot use the NCAA to enforce their hierarchy.

crg

January 4th, 2022 at 4:04 PM ^

Just because people will throw a large chunk of money at a person, that doesn't mean they *deserve* it.  This is true for so many scenarios besides college sports... capitalism is a good system in general, but it is *not* necessarily equivalent to a meritocracy.

I find it sad since it further destroys having real college students (i.e. not full-time paid athletes) playing college sports at major schools... and even the mid-majors to an extent.

All the more power to Ferris State for what they accomplished this year.

Bluesince89

January 4th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^

I mean read Duderstandt's book. The original college football players weren't even students at the universities! The notion that big time college athletics is just a bunch of scholar athletes playing for the love of the game is as just much a fairytale as Santa Clause or the tooth fairy. 

If we want real scholar-athletes, let's cut the endorsement deals with Nike, crater the Big House (and the rest of the stadiums, because why do you need them to watch some students play football on a Saturday?), get rid of the coaches and their salaries, cut the TV deals, and get of the different sets of standards for admissions for athletes. 

If you want to go back to the "student-athlete" model, that's how you do it. Not by letting everyone else have a piece of the pie, but packing it up when student-athletes get a spot at the table. 

M-Dog

January 4th, 2022 at 5:17 PM ^

The book about the building of Michigan Stadium "The Big House" by Robert Soderstrom gives an interesting perspective on this.

It tracks the events in the 1920's leading up to the construction of Michigan Stadium, even though Ferry Field had just recently been expanded.

It walks through the seasons from 1922 to 1927, year by year in a very compelling "you are there" narrative.  The success of Michigan football, and the rabid interest in it, quickly outgrew the recently expanded Ferry Field. 

What you quickly realize is that Michigan was just as football obsessed then as it is today.  Even then, college football was a big business having little to do with the academic mission of a university,   

The "over-emphasis" on football at Michigan has been going on for 100+ years.

And . . . so what?  Nothing bad actually ever came of it.

Michigan was an elite academic and research institution then, and it remains an elite academic and research institution now.  Even after 100+ years of over the top football obsession.

Whatever corrupting influence big time college football was supposed to have on the university never happened.

Ghost of Fritz…

January 4th, 2022 at 11:13 PM ^

Two more things on this....

1.  The total disconnect between football and academic mission back in the 1920's was a least a but less weird than it is today because the academic mission of universities (Michigan included) was far less serious and developed than it is today.   Some strange totally incongruous to academics obsession with football was less weird in a world where universities were much more clubby finishing schools for a very small percentage of mostly elites than they are today. 

2.  The college football stadium building craze of the 1920s (most of the classic stadiums were built then) was immediately followed by...less than half full stadiums during the Great Depression of the '30s...   Most of the huge stadiums built in the '20s did not regularly sell out until...the 1970s...

GoingBlue

January 4th, 2022 at 3:50 PM ^

Excited for the story of a player transferring out and suing for their money, or getting sued for not holding their end of the deal. Or the player who is a bust and the donors want to cut off their contract early. This will be fun. 

Bluesince89

January 4th, 2022 at 4:02 PM ^

I mean they can transfer and sue, but if these donors paid even the dumbest lawyer to look at the contract, they should be covered. You typically can't walk away from a service contract and still get paid. I've litigated a few of these in my career and it's usually the product of very unsophisticated parties not spending less than a $1,000 to have their contracts properly drafted and reviewed or they're getting taken advantage of by the other party and don't read what's put in front of them.

The player being a bust is interesting. Generally, if the person is an at-will employee you can fire them for any reason or no reason (provided you don't discriminate). If they have an employment contract or IC agreement, depending on how that's structured, you might not be able to terminate for just poor performance (i.e., no cause) and not pay out something. Obviously, if you get kicked off the team, arrested, convicted of a crime, etc. that could be cause to terminate. 

I'd be really interested in reviewing one of these agreements.

ak47

January 4th, 2022 at 4:10 PM ^

The only real rule of NIL is that payments can't be tied to playing time/performance incentives. If those guys are signed to multi year deals and they fulfill the contractual obligations of showing up for ads or doing charity, or whatever the work they are doing outside of football they get paid even if they never play a down of football.

Wallaby Court

January 4th, 2022 at 4:20 PM ^

This assumes that the sponsors fully guaranteed the payments and cannot terminate the agreement at their discretion. Imagine an agreement to pay a recruit $10,000 per month for promotional appearances that the sponsor* can terminate on 30 days notice. As soon as it becomes clear that the recruit has not panned out, the sponsor cuts bait and opens their wallet for the next recruit.

*The agreement could even have mutual termination language to appear more equitable.

Brhino

January 4th, 2022 at 3:52 PM ^

I mean if you could guarantee you could bump Michigan's recruiting class from its typical spot (#5 to 15 or so) to #1 for $25 million, you don't think we could round up that amount of cash?  Four years, a cool hundred million dollars, and we're finally out-talenting Ohio State for the first time this century.

ak47

January 4th, 2022 at 4:14 PM ^

Everyone is vastly overlooking that A&M got extremely fortunate this year in their ability to grab a ton of texas kids because Texas, LSU, and OU couldn't recruit as well this year. Sure the money plays a role but its not Michigan could offer those four Texas four stars more money and have them go to Michigan over A&M.

WhetFaarts

January 4th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^

There are a fair amount of schools across the country that have a money cannon.  Its just a matter of where they decide to point it.

Wonder how many (or how much $) of these deals are local  - and how many are bigger regional/national brands funneled to a specific university's players via a powerful booster/alum.

Some of the NIL deals, like the big Kombucha deal Quinn Ewers signed (over $1MM?) followed him from OSU to Texas.

Mgoscottie

January 4th, 2022 at 4:25 PM ^

Especially because that continues to pay off down the road. Having the prestige of signing that many highly-recruited players leads to success on the field and in recruiting future players to come in even if you don't pay as much in the future. I hope we do this somehow. 

jethro34

January 4th, 2022 at 4:26 PM ^

Rankings for A&M classes, 2017-2022 (so far): 13,17, 4, 6, 8, 1

Rankings for UM classes same years (so far): 5, 22, 8, 10, 13, 9

That may not LOOK like that big of a difference, but looking at the past 4 classes, check this out:

A&M: 11 5 stars, 60 4 stars

UM: 4 5 stars, 50 4 stars

That's 7 more ELITE players on the roster and 10 more very good players on the roster. That makes a huge difference in playmaking and depth.

M-Dog

January 4th, 2022 at 5:31 PM ^

The $25 - $30 million sounds huge because we are mere mortals.  But that is a pittance compared to what Michigan spends for football success on coaches, facilities, AD administration, etc.

As a fanbase we could do this ourselves if we wanted to.

The truth is that the University of Michigan itself can't actually prevent it under NIL rules.

If some rich Michigan boosters want to do this on their own, they can.  It's not that big a secret what Michigan's recruiting needs are by position.  

The key is coordination of the donors.

Hell, I'll throw a few hundred dollars into the pot every year if somebody who knows what they are doing takes the lead.

We collectively have the money as a fanbase.  We would just need to pool it and aim it. 

The university gets to stay out of it and keep their semi-pure morals intact.  We will make prized recruits unexpectedly fall into their laps like manna from heaven.

Maybe would could have an MGoBlog LLC that does NIL deals.  This site knows our recruiting needs better than anybody!

M-Dog

January 4th, 2022 at 6:45 PM ^

It's insane.

There will be about 20 schools that can compete at that level and all the rest will be shut out. 

Much much more than what we have now.  No more Iowa State's or Cincinnati's.  Just the bluest of the blue bloods.

But . . . if it is legal and it is allowed, then we don't get to make up our own rules no matter how unseemly we think it is.  I think coaches salaries are insane.  But it does not matter what I think.  

So until they change it, if ever, we need not artificially tie our hands behind our backs.  We can actually compete in this arena for once.  It's up to us.  

GoingBlue

January 4th, 2022 at 3:57 PM ^

I agree, probably. Coaches now have no reason not to lie during recruiting though. What is the player gonna do? He is under contract. Also, if the player is a raging ass hole, like many of them are, the player can't leave without getting out of the contract? Who knows what the language is about leaving, they might have to give back all the money, which they won't have. 

ak47

January 4th, 2022 at 4:17 PM ^

Its a name image and likeness deal. The money can't be tied to playing time or being at a school. It gets tied to actions they perform outside of football. If the deal is they show up to a charity event and they show up to said event they get the money. All of these rumors about these massive mega deals have mostly turned out to be ridiculous and trumped up. If they are signing kids up to multi year deals those deals can still be fulfilled from not A&M or they aren't legal under NIL either.

bluesalt

January 4th, 2022 at 5:03 PM ^

They can absolutely be tied to remaining at A&M.  Show up to place X in College Station every Monday to make an appearance in order to get paid.  Sure, technically you could make a trip to College Station every Monday if you go elsewhere, but practically speaking a player would not.

ak47

January 4th, 2022 at 5:19 PM ^

Sure but that would mean the sponsor couldn't recoup any of the money made for as long as that player is at A&M nor could it be tied to them actually playing or playing well. So one of these recruits could make 250k while red-shirting this year and transfer next year and they would still get that 250k

TrueBlue2003

January 4th, 2022 at 6:27 PM ^

Yes, I'm incredibly confused as to why the post talks about this being what everyone was "concerned" about with NIL?  And most of the responses here act as if the sky is falling...huh?

Great for the players.  If billionaires want to pay them their market value, isn't that a big win for everyone? Seems like a perfect application of capitalism (compared to the onerous restrictions previously).

DonAZ

January 4th, 2022 at 4:00 PM ^

It's an interesting question.  In another thread I asked about whether performance bonuses could be tied into these contracts, and someone here answered that performance bonuses would be paying the player to play football, and that's not allowed via NIL.  NIL is simply compensating for name, image, or likeness, not expressly for playing the game. 

I would think that a contract stipulation prohibiting opting out of bowl games would be construed as compensation for playing the game, and that would be, I would think, not permitted.

jcgary

January 4th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^

I agree.  Just made me wonder because a few people commented on how these deals would be structured to make sure Player X doesn't transfer after one year and not give all money up front.  If they can put something in their NIL deal that if they leave TA&M after one year their deal for further compensation or their NIL deal is null and void then couldn't they do the same with the bowl game?  

ak47

January 4th, 2022 at 4:19 PM ^

Well they can't put that in the contract or its no longer a name/image/likeness deal and now a play college for A&M deal. All of these rumors about what is in these contracts have turned out to be over the top and wrong. These deals can't tie anything back to playing football for A&M as part of the compensation. If these A&M boosters are dumb enough to sign multi year deals where they could be paying kids not at A&M to show up at charity events that is on those boosters.

DonAZ

January 4th, 2022 at 4:31 PM ^

They might not be able to tie back to playing football for A&M, but I would think they could word the contract such that the local sponsor of the NIL deal wants the recipient to be local.  The value of their NIL is very much tied to their being part of the community.  The value of the player's NIL to the sponsor of the player diminishes quite a bit if that player moves across the country.

ak47

January 4th, 2022 at 5:26 PM ^

Then don't sign a multi year deal. They can't tie it to playing football at A&M. They could tie it to  they can have moral character provisions, and any other number of things. But if they sign a multi-year deal to appear in ads for Aggietown motors and in two years that player isn't at A&M they can't cancel the deal because of that. Which is why its almost certain that rumor about these being "multi-year deals" is almost certainly wrong. They might get promised the deal will get renewed, but they can't sign multi-year deals that tie these kids to A&M under NIL rules and they can't claw back any money that already got paid out if the kids transfer.

These are just boosters putting the money over the table they always did under it, the sport isn't any different at all. The reason A&M has the top ranked recruiting class this year instead of 5th like last year isn't because of NIL, its because Texas, OU, and LSU had bad recruiting years and they compete for the same pot of kids. A&M has been paying kids since before Jimbo showed and every year he has been there.

Erik_in_Dayton

January 4th, 2022 at 3:58 PM ^

It's a little hard to imagine them paying roughly $1 million per player.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that would be an enormous increase in what payers are typically paid under the table to attend schools as far as I can tell (which is admittedly based on stray stories).

DonAZ

January 4th, 2022 at 4:02 PM ^

If the contracts are structured as multi-year, then it works out to $250K/year, which is a lot, but not shockingly out of line, given all the other money in the game.  Like you, I could be wrong, but I suspect the $1M average is probably true.

What I wonder is how they hold the locker room together when some players are awash in money, and others have no NIL at all.

Erik_in_Dayton

January 4th, 2022 at 4:17 PM ^

You could well be right.  John U. Bacon reported that a school offered Rashan Gary $300k total (or at least that seemed to be the implication) to choose them.  $1 million is a major increase from that, needless to say.  But as a poster notes below, maybe the fact that this can be done legally changes things.

BlueInGreenville

January 4th, 2022 at 4:03 PM ^

Players were getting paid under the table for far less than market because it was all illegal.  Once it's legal, I'm sure top recruits could easily command $1M to sign.  If Mel Tucker is worth $9.5M per year, a roster that could actually contend for a national championship is probably worth $30M-$40M easily.  And I guess it's relative to the wealth levels of the donors, but say the Walton family cared enough about Mizzou football to try and win a national championship, $40M is chump change to them.