[LOCKED] You are entitled to....NOTHING!
I am exhausted by the absurdity and unrealistic expectations placed on UM football and Harbaugh. The "why aren't we Bama or OSU yet crowd".... get a fucking grip and grow up. Yeah, it sucks that it is taking longer than we expected and hoped for...and shit, god forbid, maybe we don't get to elite status. UM is not a football factory, it never has been. We will hopefully compete for the playoff (we have been 1 game short in 2 of Harbaugh's 4 seasons - after the dumpster fire that was the RR and Hoke years) and it seems we are a few players and schematic changes away from getting there. The "unacceptable", "I feel insulted", entitled, recency bias, torch and pitch fork, reactionary crowd need to find another fucking team or grow the fuck up. We all want better - as an alum, nothing would be more amazing than to attend a national title game.
We are not elite, but SURPRISE!- we don't suck anymore. And if you give the man more than 4 years, and stop canabilizing the program through negativity and staff turnover, we'll probably get even better than the three - 10 win seasons he has produced in 4 years after inheriting a moribund program.
And no, Harbaugh is not perfect and has plenty of flaws and we can critique it all, and the team was uninspired for that UF game and there is much improvement to be had and criticism is absolutely warranted. But if you think anybody better is walking through the door to take the job, which does not allow for SEC win at all costs tactics (and with this delusional and entitled fanbase nonetheless - some who absurdly want him out after 4 years of clear improvement over the past 20 years) get a clue. Harbaugh is the best thing for UM football and it means more to him to get them over the top than any of you vitriolic spewing morons. How long did it take Dabo to get Clemson to this point? - And we sure as hell know he can cut corners that Harbaugh can't.
Harbaugh can easily walk back to the NFL as a top 5 coach and not have to deal with our shit, delusional fanbase, or media just waiting for his every misstep or failure. Just be happy he has stuck around to get us to where we are, including this great incoming recruiting class....Oh, and he's done it without cutting corners, keeping some semblance of the student-athlete experience about which we all like to boast, unlike the Bama's and OSU's of the world running farcical university experiences to poor mask what are NFL football factories.
If you wish to share tactical, coaching, schematic or talent critiques, I think this board is fair and open to it. If you just want to spew UNACCEPTABLE, I AM ENTITLED TO MOAR WINS! - go fuck off. You aren't entitled to shit.
[edit: mgowill] Probably best to lock this now since it seems to be going in circles.
B1G Winning
January 1st, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
His teams collapse at the first sign of adversity, his clock management is bottom of the barrel bad, his offenses are unimaginative and have been left behind by the CFB and NFL alike, but hey, keep fighting the good fight.
Joined: 11/08/2013
MGoPoints: 4583
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
January 1st, 2019 at 10:15 AM ^
Pretty much sums it up. There are numerous areas to debate about how situations or schemes are handled, but the lunacy fringes on both sides just wear out the meaningful dialog.
Harbaugh has turned around the program. The culture of entitlement and complacency is gone. Harbaugh is winning at a clip (75%) consistent with UM’s long history. He has surpassed MSU (38-14 v 32-20) and handled PSU (3-1) & UW (2-1). He has differentiated UM with the spring trips, clean program, upstanding guys and fantastic APR.
Now the program needs to get past OSU. Harbaugh himself said that UM has reached the hump but has to find a way to get over the hump. He didn’t prepare the team well enough for OSU - he can read a scoreboard. He is far too ambitious and competitive to settle for just reaching the hump or letting OSU beat his alma mater.
The guy bleeds Blue and works tirelessly to make UM an elite program. His persistence and resilience have already made a huge difference. He is our best path forward.
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 18078
Crootin
January 1st, 2019 at 11:25 AM ^
We don't need persistence. We need modern offensive football.
Joined: 02/15/2016
MGoPoints: 3932
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
January 1st, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
To elevate the O (what you call modern football), will require a lot of persistence to evaluate and change coaching staff, analysts, practice structure, etc.
JH surely knows that he must take the next step or two to make it better - more explosiveness, better 2-minute capability, and reliable run game in big games. He did it last year with the O issues and there is no reason to expect him to stand pat.
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 18078
DeepBlueC
January 1st, 2019 at 10:16 AM ^
You lost me at the first sentence. Beating OSU and winning the division is not an absurd and unrealistic expectation. Certainly not by the fourth season of a coach who's being paid 7 million a year. We're not even talking about winning the conference, let alone going undefeated or winning the NC.
Harbaugh has been here four years and has won nothing. He has no championships, and not even any signature wins. He's a good coach, but he has topped out at 10-2. To answer your question, Swinney was 11-2 by his 4th year and has never looked back.
Joined: 03/08/2018
MGoPoints: 1431
freelion
January 1st, 2019 at 10:25 AM ^
Thank you. 100% correct.
Joined: 10/03/2013
MGoPoints: 9049
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
January 1st, 2019 at 10:40 AM ^
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 18078
SMart WolveFan
January 1st, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
"Swinney was 11-2 by his 4th year and has never looked back."
Lyin ass bitch!
Heck, Dabo was only 2-5 against his rivals in year 5, and he lost AT HOME as the favorite by 37 points! Clemson's rival went on to win the championship, Clemson would still lose the next 2 to their rivals and go through a stretch were they were only 8-4.
Joined: 04/20/2015
MGoPoints: 14699
bkarm1212
January 1st, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^
Someone check and make sure this guy is still alive. Keep all sharp objects away. Happy New Year
Joined: 12/21/2018
MGoPoints: 40
Merlin.64
January 1st, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
There are many legitimate concerns on both sides of this issue, but rather too many criticisms that are just angry and unfair. Probably a reflection of the poster's disappointment.
As one example, the complaint that the team does not play well on the road and fades towards the end of the season. Not only is winning on the road in the Big Ten usually a challenge for all teams (OSU-Purdue?), but we managed an impressive comeback against NW and dominated MSU. As for the late-season fades, I think we under-estimate the effects of injuries to key players: last year the QB; this year Gary and Winovich. Without their pressure, Haskins had too much time and he is an accurate QB. We needed to be at our best to win that game. We were not. The situation was even worse in the bowl game where the absence of Higdon and JBB was a serious blow to the run game. And, of course, Bush on Defense.
As I have argued on another thread, the injuries and absences among such key players are bound to have an impact, especially against good teams. We have made significant progress, but we have been unlucky with injuries this past couple of years. How would the 1997 championship team have done had Woodson and maybe one or two others been limited by injury?
I would suggest too that the tone of many comments is unnecessarily abusive, and provokes angry responses. More thought and civility, less emotion would be nice. But of course such expectations are unrealistic in this day and age. Quaintly archaic, even? Doubtless some enjoy letting off steam, maybe even need it as an aid to cope with life's stresses?
Still, if we can hope to improve on a 10-win season, why not on anger issues?
Happy New Year, everybody, and Go Blue.
Joined: 02/10/2018
MGoPoints: 703
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 10:27 AM ^
What do you think causes those injuries? Harbaugh has been quoted on record that he's over practiced his guys in one of the three previous bowl losses (I don't remember which one, but the quotes are out there).
When you body blow teams all season, you're body blowing your own team 12 times worse. When you compound that by running extra rough practices (there are quotes floating around about that too), you get a team that's beat to shit by the end of the year.
Harbaugh is improving at this (too slowly though) since the team peaked for PSU this year - a little later than usual.
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
DeepBlueC
January 1st, 2019 at 10:31 AM ^
In one sentence you claim that it's an angry and unfair criticism that Harbaugh's teams fade at the end of the season, and right after that you say "We needed to be at our best to win that game. We were not." Exactly. Because we collapsed at the end of the season, as we have the last three years. Harbaugh's teams don't improve as the season goes on, and they fade when things get tough. Injuries are no excuse. Everyone has injuries by that point in the season. OSU was without Bosa, and it didn't seem to hurt their pass rush. Harbaugh doesn't recruit and develop players quickly enough, so he doesn't have guys ready to step in when a starter goes down.
Joined: 03/08/2018
MGoPoints: 1431
ERdocLSA2004
January 1st, 2019 at 10:51 AM ^
Sorry, we went into the OSU game pretty damn healthy. JBB probably our biggest loss, sure winovich was injured but he still played well, we lost Bush mid game. It’s the last game of the season, injury bug always strikes eventually. OSU was without Bosa, maybe their best defensive player. At this point anything bad or good that happens is because of harbaugh. That’s the role and responsibility of the head coach. No more excuses.
Joined: 01/08/2011
MGoPoints: 16145
mitchewr
January 1st, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
This is what I don’t get.
Anything slightly positive = Harbaugh is the greatest coach since sliced bread.
Anything slightly negative = Never Harbaugh’s fault, stop criticizing and trust the coaches damnit!
Can’t have it both ways. Is he a terrible coach? Of course not, there’s not a soul here who would legitimately suggest that. Is he a great coach? As of today? No. He hasn’t accomplished anything of significance in four years here at Michigan. Sad and maybe hard to hear but it’s the truth.
If he were to up and quit football today, for the rest of his life, what legacy would he leave behind here (football wise)? 0 wins against our greatest rival, including 2 blowout losses. 0 trips to the conference title game. 0 conference titles. And 1-3 in bowl games, including 2 pathetic looking bowl losses.
All of this while hauling in some fantastic recruiting classes, and having virtually every resource at his disposal. Other coaches in our own conference have literally accomplished more with far less.
Three 10 win seasons in four years with nothing more than W’s on paper to show for it and end of season collapses becoming almost a tradition.
That is the mark of a solidly good coach. Nothing more. Does it mean he can’t be a great coach? Of course not. He could be. But he’s going to need to make some adjustments on the defensive side of the ball as well as some major adjustments on the offensive side of the ball in order for this team to take the next step. It won’t just automagically happen because Harbaugh.
If he makes the necessary changes and gets this team over the OSU hump and actually wins the conference championship, great! Fantastic! It would literally be the dream come true of everyone here. But, if the current trend continues, and this team never takes the next step, how long should the university allow losing to Ohio State every season, late season collapses, and bowl game losses?
It’s a valid question that we are rapidly approaching the need of an answer for. And at some point, we’re going to have to put down the Rich Rod and Hoke years crutch cause that broken leg is just about healed up. Can’t lean on crutches forever.
Joined: 08/29/2016
MGoPoints: 13774
You Only Live Twice
January 1st, 2019 at 1:12 PM ^
We didn't go into the OSU game "damn healthy" we were down key players for differing reasons. We all get that you and others are furious - I think people just lash out when they feel personally humiliated; that's one huge advantage of getting older. I used to feel that way and endured a lot of workplace heckling during the RR years, maybe that helped me grow a tougher skin or maybe again just getting older. My heart breaks for the team but I don't feel personal disappointment anymore. One thing to think about, the fact that other fanbases live to hate our coach seems to indicate we have something. Remember the OSU troll who created an account to taunt people here about how they just love Harbaugh? That was a comment they echoed from the OSU twitter and posted here, in order to touch a nerve (and evidently for a lot of people it did). OSU was singing a different tune all season until they beat us and rather than enjoy the victory they are already worrying about next year.
Joined: 09/14/2013
MGoPoints: 9615
rkgoblue
January 1st, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
Amen! Thanks for providing the perspective to those that need it. Unfortunately, they won’t listen anyways.
Joined: 02/23/2010
MGoPoints: 29
michMADE
January 1st, 2019 at 10:36 AM ^
"Michigan has never been elite"
And clearly you're ok with that.
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 291
West Coast Struttin
January 1st, 2019 at 10:37 AM ^
What about the players - what are they entitled to?
Joined: 10/06/2018
MGoPoints: 693
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 10:40 AM ^
According to some, they're entitled to sit out of meaningless bowl games - until we lose and then those same people are attacking the players for looking out for themselves, rather than the coaching staff that shit the bed AGAIN.
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
West Coast Struttin
January 1st, 2019 at 10:44 AM ^
I think the team collapses at the first sign of adversity, because they don't feel like they have a chance to win with the clock management & piss poor conservative play calling. We never switch momentum back in our favor on offense. Then add in a horrible defense scheme against good teams & it's a recipe for disaster ...ie in Columbus.
Joined: 10/06/2018
MGoPoints: 693
Sideline
January 1st, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
Ok cool.
Hook ‘em ?
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 2378
West Coast Struttin
January 1st, 2019 at 10:50 AM ^
JPC ...we for sure missed Bush out there. The other players we should be able to do fine without imo.
One thing is imo - we don't get 2nd & 3rd guys valuable playing experience. Bush was in the end of games many times when we were waaay ahead. Why not get the other guys playing time so they can be coached up.?
Joined: 10/06/2018
MGoPoints: 693
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
We absolutely missed Bush. He was the best player on defense by a large margin. However, it doesn't seem like a sustainable strategy to require an all-world LB in order to not look inept.
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
maize-blue
January 1st, 2019 at 10:52 AM ^
New Carr same as the Old Carr.
Joined: 01/10/2013
MGoPoints: 44662
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^
Old Carr won a National Championship. I guess, "Old Old Carr" is apt.
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
k.o.k.Law
January 1st, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
Check Lloyd's record against top 20 opponents, especially top 5.
Joined: 08/12/2011
MGoPoints: 5814
The Truth Hurts
January 1st, 2019 at 12:14 PM ^
What was Lloyd 's record against top 5
Joined: 03/30/2011
MGoPoints: 3598
The Truth Hurts
January 1st, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
What was Lloyd 's record against top 5
Joined: 03/30/2011
MGoPoints: 3598
Winning Curesall
January 1st, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^
Relax, dude.
People have the right to disagree with you.
Please go have yourself a Happy New Year!
Joined: 08/27/2018
MGoPoints: 241
Mighty Petrusha
January 1st, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^
Thank you, sir, for telling us how to feel about our football program. Feel free to instruct us next on which party to vote for and what we should eat for breakfast.
i guess being humiliated by your main rival every year is what we all deserve. Not winning a single game that we were not supposed to win on the talent alone is fine with everyone. Being 1-10 agants everyone with a pulse is the new Michigan way. Having at least 3 future NFL receivers on the roster and running down the middle two times out of three knowing that you can get 2-3 yards on average is the best strategy one of the highest paid staffs in all the college football can come up with in 2018.
Should we be greatfull to just be a top 25 schools ? Should we go crazy every time we dump 60 points on Rutgers ?
No sir, thank you very much,,,,,for nothing
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 78
k.o.k.Law
January 1st, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
Yeah, reminds me of another failed coach we had, could not win the last game of the season.
After 11 full years, his last game record was 0-10-1. If he beat Ohio State, he lost the bowl game.
That was the days of the Big Two and the Little 8, so beating all those crappy big ten teams was easy. Non-conference was usually a cakewalk, with Notre Dame not coming on the schedule until 1978.
Q: Why doesn't Millie serve Bo his cereal in a bowl?
A: Because he would just lose it.
Patience.
:)
Joined: 08/12/2011
MGoPoints: 5814
CriticalFan
January 1st, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
WillyWonka.Gif
Joined: 10/14/2009
MGoPoints: 1807
WeimyWoodson
January 1st, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
Yeah this take for the 5th time or so didn’t need to be posted. Some want to be an apologist for everything he does, others want him fired. You got a thought like this several days after the bowl, it didn’t need it’s own thread.
Joined: 08/25/2015
MGoPoints: 14775
maizenbluenc
January 1st, 2019 at 11:15 AM ^
I agree with the OP. The level of butthhurt around here serves no purpose but to destabilize the program.
It is almost like MSU, OSU and the SEC have hired the Russians to troll social media with over the top discontent to achieve this effect. If it weren't for some long time contributors adding to the fire, all the out of nowhere negative posters would confirm my opinion.
Joined: 07/21/2009
MGoPoints: 10630
Crootin
January 1st, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
Yeah...an internet message board is destabilizing the football program. LOL GTFO
Joined: 02/15/2016
MGoPoints: 3932
Tuebor
January 1st, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
Lol.
I can't believe people think the comment section on mgoblog can have any impact on the team.
Talk about feeling self important...
Joined: 03/14/2011
MGoPoints: 17467
Crootin
January 1st, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^
And I am exhausted by the absurdity and unrealistict strawman arguments saying Michigan fans "want to be Bama". How about we beat our main rival more than once every 20 years?
Joined: 02/15/2016
MGoPoints: 3932
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
I think most people would settle for going 10-3 forever, but losing games in a non-embarrassing way. This year, Michigan either won or looked dysfunctional.
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
Hei2man
January 1st, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Most people would not settle going 10-3 don't be ridiculous.
Joined: 12/21/2018
MGoPoints: 338
Tuebor
January 1st, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
To be fair we've been 2 games away from the playoffs in 2016 and 2018. If we had beat OSU both those years we would still have to beat Wisconsin in 2016 and Northwestern in 2018 in the championship game.
Joined: 03/14/2011
MGoPoints: 17467
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 11:25 AM ^
There are a lot of teams that were two games away from the playoffs. Two losses away is a lot, when you only play 12 games.
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
Amaizing Blue
January 1st, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^
Got to "Unrealistic expectations" and gave the rest of your post a hard pass. Look, I love Harbaugh-I was in school when he was and have great memories of those games in the student section.
However...I think given his past successes at many levels, it was absolutely realistic to expect more than what we've gotten over the past four seasons. Not every season, but certainly a couple of them.
2015 was a huge success in my eyes because he had to turn the program around. No issue with a freakish MSU loss and getting blown out by a really good OSU team.
2017 was disappointing, but losing so many starters and having massive QB issues mitigates that somewhat for me.
2016 we should have been in the playoff. We had stars everywhere, a functional but not great QB, and an OSU team that was young and somewhat down. The spot shouldn't have mattered, we pissed away chance after chance to put the game away, not to mention whatever THAT was in Iowa two weeks earlier. Now, we would have gotten Notre Dame'd in the CFP, but that's beside the point.
2018...no excuse for the last two games. You have to do a better job of preparing your team-and that offense was tough to watch.
Joined: 12/02/2013
MGoPoints: 9145
Hei2man
January 1st, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
Yeah how dare Michigan fans expect to beat OSU more than once a decade.
Joined: 12/21/2018
MGoPoints: 338
dcloren2121
January 1st, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Appreciate the lecture
Joined: 07/30/2013
MGoPoints: 6421
Billy
January 1st, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
I believe anyone who thinks they are entitled to something are rightfully referred to as, "snowflakes".
Joined: 06/09/2018
MGoPoints: 159
Albatross
January 1st, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
Apparently no one is entitled to an opinion either.
Joined: 11/12/2013
MGoPoints: 1957
username03
January 1st, 2019 at 12:14 PM ^
It doesn't really seem that this staff is trying to compete at the national level. It seems like they're aiming to be regional champs, the best of the midwest non-Ohio State division. They've been pretty successful at that.
Joined: 02/12/2016
MGoPoints: 14535
Albatross
January 1st, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
Thank goodness for this post! And to think we all fell for “those who stay will be champions” line and had the audacity to believe we should be competitive with Ohio State.
Thanks to New Carr, we now know that Brady Hoke established the Michigan standard, and any coach that exceeds the Hoke standard deserves the unflattering devotion of the fan base.
Joined: 11/12/2013
MGoPoints: 1957
JPC
January 1st, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
You need to differentiate between "early Hoke" and "late Hoke". Early Hoke
Beat OSU
Won 11 games
Won a NY6 Bowl
Was he a good coach? No. Was he effective in that one season? For sure. I doubt anyone complains if Harbaugh matches "early Hoke".
Joined: 10/13/2018
MGoPoints: 12226
The Pharaoh of Filth
January 1st, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
Great Post. I agree. Let's keep referring to the Hoke Years and the Rodriguez years to feel great about mediocrity!
Joined: 12/30/2018
MGoPoints: 837