Question for MGoCoaches: Why doesn't the offense run more 11 personnel?

Submitted by Sauce Castillo on December 31st, 2018 at 11:05 AM

After reflecting on Saturday's game, and the season as a whole, I got to thinking of next year and how would this offense use it's best players to get them on the field more. My immediate thought was how to keep DPJ, Nico, and Tarik on the field as much as possible. Seems like 11 personnel would solve that. 

Looking at the numbers from 2017, 11 personnel was used on average 58% of the time in the NFL, an increase of 20% over the past 10 years. The Rams were highest at 80%. 

Glancing at the UFR's and giving the eyeball test, it seems Michigan used 11 personnel roughly 30-40% of the time, and that's a safe assumption on the high end. 

I'm wondering if any MGoCoaches out there have opinions of why the offense doesn't use this personnel grouping as much or if they think it would help or hurt the offense moving forward.

I Like Burgers

December 31st, 2018 at 11:25 AM ^

Not sure if this answers the question or not, but I thought this thread from Michael Spath today was interesting. Could explain a lot of the "why don't we see more of that" issues.


 

Biggest thing I'm hearing re: Michigan offense is there is a huge disconnect between what U-M talks about doing pre-game and then its play-calling. It's like a student taking the SATs, panics and reverts backwards instead of sticking with all the prep work.

— Michael Spath (@MichaelSpathITH) December 31, 2018

There was a plan for Chris Evans - the coaches aren't stupid. They know what kind of weapon he can be - and then the game happens, and the plan goes to shit. Some is certainly lack of execution and how score changes things, but the play-calling just seems to abandon the plan.

— Michael Spath (@MichaelSpathITH) December 31, 2018

My source said it's classic deer-in-the-headlights type stuff where you can only see what's directly in front of you, they're living and dying play to play and suddenly it's halftime and Evans, Eubanks, Gentry have three combined targets and everyone is like,

— Michael Spath (@MichaelSpathITH) December 31, 2018

'Didn't we want to get those guys involved more?' You're going to hear some rumblings this offseason, and you might see some players leave for opportunities to be more involved in the offense elsewhere. You can't keep telling guys they'll get touches and then not get them touches

— Michael Spath (@MichaelSpathITH) December 31, 2018


That thread goes on for 4-5 more tweets discussing some of the differences between offensive and defensive gameplanning, which is also interesting, but this part sticks to the core of the offensive issues.

Also, I wonder if Michigan could use someone to manage their entire offense.  You know, really coordinate the whole thing from practice through the game.  Would need to look around CFB and see if any other programs have started using one of these "offensive coordinator" types.

DonAZ

December 31st, 2018 at 11:39 AM ^

That full thread is interesting ... he goes on to talk about how once the game unfolds and things don't go according to plan, the plan is abandoned and it becomes a "deer in the headlights" posture offensively.  Spath admits he's not sure if that's on Hamilton or Harbaugh.

My guess is it's related to the "play calling by committee" approach.  I've worked in a large corporate setting for 35 years now, and I have yet to see a consensus/committee approach produce results rapidly.  It may produce better results when time is not a constraint, but under pressure what's needed is someone who makes decisions and everyone follows.  I freely admit the success or failure of that depends on the decisions being made.  It's possible to drive off a cliff with a forcefully decisive person calling the shots.

In no universe that I can conceive of does a college football team operate well without a good offensive coordinator who's nimble on his feet and makes good decisions under fire.  I can't think of a worse structure than a decision-by-committee approach in today's faster-paced and dynamic game of college football.

JPC

December 31st, 2018 at 12:02 PM ^

That validates the eyeball analysis. Michigan looked ok in the Florida game until things started going against them. Then the wheels came off, things went crazy, and it looked like nobody knew what to do. 

It also confirms that Gregg article talking about how Harbaugh lacks credibility with his players. If he's saying one thing, and doing another, that's going to get players checked out fast. 

Clearly no problem here though. We're on the precipice of greatness and Harbaugh is the guy to lead us there. He just needs more time. His three elite WRs and QBs just aren't sufficient. We need Alabama's OL and an amazing RB. Just wait guys! 

DonAZ

December 31st, 2018 at 12:14 PM ^

If he's saying one thing, and doing another, that's going to get players checked out fast. 

That'll kill the morale of any organization, football or otherwise.

Personally, I'm suspicious whether a true "meritocracy" is in place for Michigan football.  I suspect factors other than the best player is used when making playing time decisions.  My fear is there's a set of highly-subjective criteria used to determine playing time -- "attitude" or "work ethic" or something, not "who's the best player for that role."  

If that's true, then fine ... just say so.  Don't preach one thing and follow another.

People behave according to incentives, and incentives are based on what's properly understood to be in place.  That's why saying X but doing Y is a disaster.

Navy Wolverine

December 31st, 2018 at 12:14 PM ^

Gregg Henson also posted an article on his web site with a similar theme - JH is dealing with some credibility issues with the players. Some of it falls in the category of crootin, but it is something that he may have to fix. Yes, I know, Henson, looking for clicks, but he says this is coming from his #1 source and some of this sounds viable.

Not sure how accurate any of this is but key points:

- James Hudson wanted to transfer before the season but was not granted his release along with a promise that he would start in 2019. When JBB went down and Steuber started, he bailed immediately. Seem very feasible based on how that went down.

- Nordin has been kicked of the team for calling JH an M-F'er. Has anyone else heard this?

- Gentry will bail. While JH has made him into an NFL TE, was never happy he wasn't given a chance at QB after decommitting from Texas. Thinks he could have beaten out JOK and Speight.

- Henson has another posting stating that Solomon transferred primarily because of the distance from home and the cold weather.

Interesting read. Click at your own peril. http://gregghenson.com/

 

 

Football Heaven

December 31st, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^

Holy hell...Gregg Henson isn't a reputable source. He throws a lot of shit at the wall and hopes one piece sticks. The Nordin rumor has already been squashed.

I get that the fanbase is pissed, and Harbaugh deserves the criticism, but throwing this utter crap about players transferring and Harbaugh not having credibility with his players is pure BS. 

JPC

December 31st, 2018 at 1:37 PM ^

Players, good ones that we needed, have already transferred. Don't act like this is some total bullshit Chat Sports stuff. 

He might be full of shit, but it's an entirely plausible story. The alternative being "Harbaugh is now a shitty Coach and just got killed by a competently coached but mediocre Florida", seems less believable than "some players are tired of Harbaugh's weirdness and shitty offensive style, and have checked out". 

Ger Sauden

December 31st, 2018 at 8:24 PM ^

He claims he was told Harbaugh lied to Hudson when he told him he will start in 2019. That is not a lie. The first game of 2019 is eight months away. If Harbaugh actually told Hudson he will start in 2019 (and we don't know if he did) he did not lie. 

If Nordin was kicked off the team how could he be on the sidelines two days ago?

I don't have reason to believe that fellow in your article.

lhglrkwg

December 31st, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^

'Didn't we want to get those guys involved more?' You're going to hear some rumblings this offseason, and you might see some players leave for opportunities to be more involved in the offense elsewhere. You can't keep telling guys they'll get touches and then not get them touches

— Michael Spath (@MichaelSpathITH) December 31, 2018

Can't wait to see some really talented guys go elsewhere because we insist on trying to manball the other team to death like it's 1978. I don't want to start throwing out names, but it's a fairly short list of really talented guys who seem to get 1-2 targets per game

JPC

December 31st, 2018 at 12:34 PM ^

I feel bad for those guys. It sucks for us, as fans, to watch Harbaugh and his staff squander talented players. Think about what it's like for those kids to bust their asses and then... nothing. These guys want to go to the NFL and they have a very short window to do it. 

If Harbaugh isn't getting it done for them, they should be out ASAP and into a spot that's going to help them get there. 

JPC

December 31st, 2018 at 2:54 PM ^

I don't see next year being awful, regardless of what happens. It might not be fun to watch, but Michigan is talented enough to manball all season and have a decent record at the end. 

Any below average B1G team is going to get body blow'd to death by Michigan. Franklin still sucks. Mork is going to be out for blood, and we're coming off a bye week, so who knows how that goes if he gets his team functional. OSU is OSU. At Wisconsin might be tough. Army? Who knows. 

Fishbulb

December 31st, 2018 at 11:30 AM ^

As has been mentioned, I think it’s a combination of not trusting the pass pro and the affinity for TE’s. If Gentry goes, hopefully that means more 3 WR looks, and when they do look to the TE, hopefully Eubanks gets those targets. 

Booted Blue in PA

December 31st, 2018 at 11:35 AM ^

Oline has been bad, it improved some this year, but not significantly.  It seems that most of our big runs were outside the tackles.  The running success up the middle was against lesser teams, and in the 2nd half.   

We don't run block well, Saturday we didn't pass block well either.  If you can't generate a running game and you don't give your QB time to set and pass, its tough to move the ball. 

The jet sweep worked, but we forgot about it.  With the Oline not opening up running lanes, it would seem like running outside with our TE's and WR's blocking would have been an option, but we didn't do much of that either.

Hopefully the Oline takes another step forward and eventually gets to a point where we can dominate in the trenches and move the ball on the ground.

Onward, Go Blue

jackw8542

December 31st, 2018 at 11:44 AM ^

Amen on the jet sweep working and then being forgotten.  Why?  It is the exact opposite of many coaches who will keep running it until the other team shows it can stop it then give it a tweak that fools them.  It seems like we never repeat plays that work and frequently repeat plays that get stuffed (and stuffed again).

TheCube

December 31st, 2018 at 3:13 PM ^

It’s definitely a Shaw thing. 

I think it was Utah? this year where Shaw through fades to Arcega-Whiteside 4 times in a row because 2 were called for PI and the other 1 was a TD while the 4th was a 2 pt conversion. 

To think people here thought Shaw rode Harbaugh’s coattails haha fml. 

I Like Burgers

December 31st, 2018 at 12:01 PM ^

I honestly can't imagine all three sticking around.  This offense seems to generate around 100 catches a year for the top three pass catchers, and a third of those go to the TE.  Its been that way every year Harbaugh has been here.  One of the DPJ/Nioo/Black trio is going to get left out and wind up with a dozen or so catches, and it feels kinda obvious which one its going to be.

Avon Barksdale

December 31st, 2018 at 11:51 AM ^

It is pretty obvious that next season’s first play (and every play thereafter) should have: 

Shea, Evans/or Charbonnet, DPJ, Nico, Tarik, Gentry, Runyan, Bredesen, Ruiz, Onwenu, Steuber. 

And to hell with the packages where we get a first down and in comes 3 fresh receivers. When someone needs a blow, Bell and/Martin can come in at WR, and Eubanks can rotate with Gentry. McKeon should never see the field unless we are in goaline package. 

West Coast Struttin

December 31st, 2018 at 11:53 AM ^

They just choke & call run up the middle.

Just like against Osu. Mason picks up a first down - he starts to run off  & they tell him to stay on. Team looks confused ...they do another Mason up the middle & it gets stuffed. Wasted down & now behind the chains. 

2nd & 10 before 1st half against Fla - run up middle & gets stuffed. Clock burns & we know the rest of the story...

You Only Live Twice

December 31st, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^

To be fair, Mason did have a first down that was taken away by an atrociously bad spot.  I am NOT saying the game was on the refs.  It was close  mind you - and he may have been pushed back from the forward progress but he did have a clear first down.

setauket

December 31st, 2018 at 12:01 PM ^

If your pass pro is sketchy (and lets be honest so is run blocking) but you have elite WR talent and a QB who has ok but not great arm strength who is an athlete-you run a tempo driven dink and dunk get the ball out quick on O- not 12 or 13 personnel where you have 5-7 step drop backs and 2-3 guy going out on long, slow developing routes. Scheme killed this team offensively. 

They had 2 choices to mitigate the overall unathleticism of the Oline: run a scheme that maxes the talent on hand and minimizes weakness (spread em out, get it out quick) or run a scheme that masks weaknesses by going heavy and favors TOP to keep the D fresh by playing in a phone booth. They obviously picked in their minds the “safe” route...but it obviously wasn’t the right route.  

West Coast Struttin

December 31st, 2018 at 12:08 PM ^

So what exactly is Harbaugh good at?

Being a pro QB - he knows how to read defenses. Wouldn't he know that Osu was going to shred this defense?

He can't manage the clock or call good creative plays obviously. 

Guys are flat in big games.

Rumors of practices grinding guys down & they are injured & wore out by end of year in key games. 

He seems to recruit pretty well. 

TrueBlue2003

December 31st, 2018 at 2:30 PM ^

He's a very good recruiter.  He's probably a very good QB coach (all evidence said that prior to the last couple years but Speight seemingly regressing in year 2 as a starter, JOK/Peters not being useful after a couple years in the program and Patterson not improving have brought that into question just a tiny bit - but again, he's probably a really good QB coach). 

He does well delegating the defense. Good coaches seem to want to coach under him for the most part and he runs a good clean program which is something to be very proud of.  So he does A LOT well.

He just needs to swallow his pride and delegate more of the offense.  Do what he did with defense: find a really good coach, hire him and hand over the keys.

As an offensive guy, that might be hard for him to do so we'll see.

And maybe hire a 12 year old Madden player to help with the clock management cuz that's also...yikes.

Magnus

December 31st, 2018 at 12:19 PM ^

I know some people are probably sick of seeing me say this, but Harbaugh isn't an 11 personnel guy. He's not a spread guy. He was never going to hire Kliff Kingsbury or Jake Spavital. 

That's not what he knows, and Michigan didn't hire him to be one of those guys. He wasn't that guy at Stanford or San Francisco or in his first four years at Michigan, so why would he be one now?

This is the equivalent of asking why Rich Rodriguez doesn't use more tight ends and fullbacks, or why Tony Gibson doesn't run a 4-3, or why Don Brown doesn't run a base Cover 3. It's like marrying a girl who likes country music but expecting her to become a rap fan. If you want an offense based on 11 personnel, then fire Harbaugh and get someone else.

 

Maul

December 31st, 2018 at 2:04 PM ^

Every year, the team has multiple top recruiting targets at WR.  Usually you can't get all of them despite best efforts, usually getting only 1-2 top WRs.  It just happens we got very, very fortunate to land all of the top targets at WR in the 2017 cycle.

Now utilizing them is a different story...

cobra14

December 31st, 2018 at 1:56 PM ^

Or have Jim step away from being part of his OC by committee and allow one lead guy(you know like the rest of the nation does) to run whatever offense they are accustomed too?

If this isn’t done this year and we still have an OC by committee room it’s time to part ways with Jim. Jim can’t handle all the responsibilities of an OC, Podcast participant, PCs, and interview obligations. Not to mention recruiting added in.

He has said in his weekly in season Monday PC that he hasn’t watched film on weeks opponent yet wants to be part of calling plays. Anybody associated with football knows coordinatiors are in that film room immediately following game into Sunday for meetings. That must be want the 15 analysts are for

Magnus

December 31st, 2018 at 2:13 PM ^

So your stance is this: Fire Harbaugh.

I'm okay with your having that opinion. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. But in reality, Harbaugh isn't and has never been a spread-the-field and throw-the-ball-around guy. That's the reality of it.

cobra14

December 31st, 2018 at 2:18 PM ^

Might want to re read.

Jim has to step away from any playcalling duties. Hire an OC or keep Pep to implement the offense. Never said a word about spread.

If Jim can’t do that and insists on the OC by committee with him signaling in plays its time for a change. 

This OC by committee along with long worded terminology is killing any flow with offense. 

Harbsugh absolutely deserves another year but natives are restless and ticket sales are on verge of being hurt. And once those sales are hurt changes will start to happen. One thing Michigan has proven is they value money over anything. Only reason ND is on schedule again

We are back

December 31st, 2018 at 2:19 PM ^

I disagree, great coaches should play to the teams strength, they are brought in to win games not run a style of offense or defense, not saying Michigan is best suited for 11 personnel. Also Rich Rod used a lot of FBs at WV, remember Owen Schmitt?. There’s a reason why guys like Belichick switch between 4-3 and 3-4 on a weekly basis, although his own pride got in the way of winning a super bowl last year by sitting butler. Every year nick saban brings in new guys to show them a few things. After Alabama lost to OSU he had Tom Herman come , Rich rod has been spotted down there, Hugh freeze just to name a few.

BIGBLUEWORLD

December 31st, 2018 at 2:25 PM ^

Good observation Magnus.

But Harbaugh has the qualities of a good head coach.

All he has to do is fire himself and Pep as Offensive Coordinators. Then he can find someone who has that skill set and let them make the decisions.

Even Saban was able to do that.

TrueBlue2003

December 31st, 2018 at 2:44 PM ^

"Why would he be one now?"

Because he wants to win.  Pretty simple.

It's not at all like Rich Rodriguez changing his scheme.  Rich Rodriguez has had many very good offenses in his career.  His way is/was proven.  He was also an OC (and remained a good OC but bad delegator as a HC).

Harbaugh is kind of the opposite. He has never been an OC and even as a FBS college or NFL coach he has never had a good offense except when he had Andrew Luck at Stanford and Andrew Luck is arguably one of the top 10 QBs of the century.  Harbaugh is a good delegator (see his defenses) and a meh "OC".

It's also not difficult to change what he's doing because he's the head coach, not the OC.  It's not like asking Greg Robinson to run something he doesn't know. He doesn't need to and shouldn't be running the offense.  He has like a $2+ million budget to hire a good OC. 

His job is to recruit and delegate, first and foremost.  And be the QB coach - which is something he is proven to be good at.

Besides, they're already running a hybrid offense with zone reads and RPOs and spread concepts. Their QB has experience with and is much better suited to running a spread offense. They're just not doing it frequently enough and they're wasting scholarships to run heavy personnel just part of the time.  They need to jump in fully instead of just dipping a foot in the water.

John Beilein was a 1-3-1 guy when he was hired.  It got torched in the Big Ten, he switched it up, eventually also delegated that to a great coach and now he's about to have a top 5 defense for the second season in a row.  A John Beilein team.

As a head coach, you adapt to win if you want to be great.  Look at Saban!