Insights on our OL from a former college OL player

Submitted by WindyCityBlue on

Hello all.  I'm in the orthopedic industry and there a lot of former football players in the industry.  Last week at conference, I met a former Auburn OL from the late 90s, early 00s.  Nice guy.  I mentioned that I'm a big Michigan fan, and said he really likes Michigan too.  He played against us in the 2001 Citrus Bowl and was very complimentary of our program, especially our DL. 

Anyway, he's somewhat of an OL junkie, in that when he watches football, he focuses most of his attention on OL technique and execution.  Apparently, he often doesn't care about the score outcome of the game - he really enjoys watching a good OL at work.  So I naturally asked him about our OL, and surprisingly he's watched a lot of our games over the years because of Harbaugh.  His thoughts:

  • For many years until recently, he thought our OL were way too undersized for the big ten.  He didn't comment on if this was an RR or BH thing, just that he favored size (over athleticism) for the type of game that works well in the big ten.
  • He thought the earlier years of Harbaugh lacked sufficient talent to be the quality Michigan should expect.  He did remark that HS rankings for OL mean absolutely nothing.  He laughed that he was decently rated out of HS and didn't even get drafted.  He specifically mentioned a couple of our players from a couple years ago.  He thought they was grossly over-rated from HS rankings.
  • He thinks we have all the pieces to be a really good OL this year.  He likes Warinner a lot and says he's one of the best.  He watched the ND and Western game and said our OL is playing MUCH better than in the past few years.  I said "well, what about our tackles?".  His reply is that all OL have a weak link, you just have to scheme around it.  He's seeing that this year with most of play calling this year.
  • OL is a brotherhood where everyone on the line has to be in sync.  At Auburn, the OLs did everything together (i.e. roommates, meals, etc.) and often times did things separately from the rest of the team to create that brotherhood bond.
  • Overall, he thinks we'll probably have the 2nd best OL in the big ten by the end of year.  Just stay the course.  I'm not sure I'd agree with him here.
  • Last un-related thing: he fully admitted that Auburn (and most other schools) back then was pretty corrupt.  Apparently, they fed him this "food" that he had to eat.  No clue what it was and it tasted like shit, but was required to eat it.  Found out later, it was full of banned substances.

Anyway, thought I'd pass it along.

Im thinkin bou…

September 18th, 2018 at 3:36 PM ^

The thing about OL that makes them hard to rank in high school is that their bodies have to go through the most change to be field ready.  5 stars are 5 stars because their bodies are already ready or theyre freaks in some manner like petit frere last year. 100-1000 shows correlation, but it is definitely hard on scouting services.

SMart WolveFan

September 18th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^

No doubt. Especially since its so hard to predict good weight gain/ loss. Jalen Mayfield is a prime example of this:

He was the #268 ranked player in composite mostly because, even though he had great athleticism and length, they didn't know if he would put on enough good weight to be a legit power 5 tackle.

Nearly 30 lbs heavier with the same athleticism, he'd be ranked a 5* now.

bronxblue

September 18th, 2018 at 3:38 PM ^

I largely agree with the general statements made by your friend, but I don't understand the argument that Michigan's offensive line wasn't "big" enough for the Big 10.  Last year's line averaged 6'4", 316lbs, which is larger than the national average and a solid 10 pounds more than average in the conference.  I eyeballed OSU's depth chart, and their offensive line averages around 6'5" and 310 lbs; PSU came in a tiny bit shorter (6' 4") but heavier (323 lbs, which is apparently a record).  Michigan is around 6' 4" and 320 lbs, though a lot of that is Onwenu being listed at 350 lbs and being 6' 3".  And even in PSU's case, I'm not sure how much it's helped them on the ground; while they average about a half-yard more a rush than Michigan, their second leading rusher is Trace McSorley, which is mostly on scrambles and designed runs that I'm not sure matter all that much in terms of size.  

There was a nice diary a couple of years ago that mapped out the average weights in the conference, and outside of Iowa and Wisconsin virtually everyone was bunched together around the same weight.  So maybe a half-inch here or a couple of pounds there matters to someone in the trenches, but to my uneducated eye that doesn't strike me as all that relevant.  

So again, it's always good to hear outsiders' views on the state of the program, and I'm sure he picks out really interesting nuances in how the line has played.  I just was surprised about the size comment, unless he really believes that the size difference is a major detriment to the type of offense being run.

WindyCityBlue

September 18th, 2018 at 3:52 PM ^

He was referring to some of the late Hoke/early Harbaugh teams.   I’m not sure if that means anything, but I do remember us getting bigger guys on the OL when Harbaugh came in. 

When he mentioned that to me, I remember when cris Carter said something to that effect right before The Game several years ago. 

The Mad Hatter

September 18th, 2018 at 3:39 PM ^

I like what you're saying OP so I'm choosing to believe every word of it.

Having 2 OL coaches last year was probably a big mistake.

Also sounds like we need some of those required meals.

CalifExile

September 18th, 2018 at 7:43 PM ^

Frey has a great reputation because he has gotten results at UM under RR and at Indiana where he was cranking out AAs like Dan Feeney and Jason Spriggs.

When he started out with RR our OL had been a mess for a couple of years. The only starter left (after Boren transferred) was Schilling. Undersized red-shirt freshman Dave Molk was also on the roster. They recruited and developed Omameh, Barnum and Lewan. Frey turned all those guys into at least all conference players. They also recruited Jake Fisher who decommitted after RR was fired.

Against his proven record it's hard to blame Frey for last year where 2 coaches were splitting OL responsibility. It should also be noted that he gets credit for recruiting Jalen Mayfield, a guy many Mgousers want to start as a true freshman. He has a great reputation because he has earned it.

jblaze

September 18th, 2018 at 3:40 PM ^

We just need to trust Harbaugh. He can't bend the rules or bring in quick-fix JUCOs, so it will take time.

It's nice to see validation of his methods by "professionals"

Also, this likely explains why he's not putting the young guys out there just yet. He knows they need to gel and playing in cupcake blowouts is just part of that process

The Mad Hatter

September 18th, 2018 at 3:44 PM ^

I think the JUCO thing hurts us.  As far as I understand it our FB players get in on the NCAA minimum gpa, which no regular student could do, so why not loosen up a bit with the out of state JUCO transfers?  Hell, even allowing 2-3 on scholarship at a time could help to fill a position of need.

CarrIsMyHomeboy

September 18th, 2018 at 3:43 PM ^

I have a friend who grew up in Ann Arbor in a Michigan family close to the football program who believes he's heard enough to "guarantee" to 20-40% of every scholarship roster should technically be ineligible for banned substances. He says it used to be institutional (forced "food" (?), I'm not sure, but university-santioned) but now is driven by individual players scared to get behind -- and perhaps that is less safe.

I'm skeptical, but my skepticism is mostly based on hopes, dreams, and the observation that there are precious few annual PED suspensions in NCAAF. But when confronted with the same observation, this friend strongly contends that the explanation is in enforcement/testing being famously lax, rather than in PEDing because proportionally low.

Lame if true.

snarling wolverine

September 18th, 2018 at 3:56 PM ^

I believe him completely.  The reason there are few suspensions is because the testing methods are comically out of date.

Cycling and track are two of the only sports that seriously try to catch dopers, and it’s killed their public image. Consequently, the other sports stick to joke testing standards that they know perfectly well aren’t going to catch anyone (save an unlucky handful who forgot to take their masking agent before the test).

BornInAA

September 18th, 2018 at 3:59 PM ^

OK, summary:

Our OL kinda better this year

But still needs a lot of work

And might be good by the end of year if everything is OK

Other programs cheat

 

 

Marvin

September 18th, 2018 at 4:32 PM ^

I agree and disagree about the reliability of star rankings for offensive lineman. While it's true that most high school seniors need several years of weight training and weight gain to be division one game ready, the genuine 5 star line recruits are often ready to go as freshman or sophomores. Here, for example, is Alex Leatherwood as a high school senior. He needs neither roids nor weight gain, in my amateur opinion. 

Image result for alex leatherwood high school picture

SMart WolveFan

September 18th, 2018 at 4:42 PM ^

No doubt it's correct that the whole of an Oline is always greater than the sum of it's parts, especially recruiting parts.

The key ingredient for a unit that relies so much on chemistry is leadership. And both Bredeson & Ruiz are better leaders on the Oline than they've had in some years, plus a singular voice coaching it ........(+warriner > drevno).

I like their chances to be a really good unit, with solid upgrades in the wings, by the end of the year.

RainbowSprings

September 18th, 2018 at 6:57 PM ^

Not sure I buy that "OL will improve by the end of the year" thought. We've been chanting that for ten years, or so. Never seems to happen. Some of the hoped for improvement is no doubt offset by opposing DL improvements keeping pace with our efforts. We can't realistically assume that only our team will get better, can we? 

mgojohnny

September 18th, 2018 at 5:57 PM ^

How much blame should be placed not on the OL, but on the inability of the RBs and TEs to pickup the late blitzes/stunts?

Wilson has made a few key blocks that have accounted for some big plays.  I don't know if the same could be said for Higdon and certainly not Evans.

OSU does not have a great OL, but they have RBs that are solid in pass pro.  

Alumnus93

September 18th, 2018 at 6:01 PM ^

i dont know what it is but higdon and mckeon do draw my ire... higdon seems to half ass blocks and then leaves tons of yards on field.. but he does offset it by some tough runs... it was odd because after he had that breakout game awhile ago, his vision got worse.

mckeon is an anomaly... still pissed about the msu fumble...and then last week he doesnt come back for the ball... gentry has passed him, as predicted.... maybe its the 'stache that wrongfully annoys me....

Fezzik

September 18th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^

Gentry didn't come back to a ball on an O'Korn interception last year and O'Korn was visibly pissed about it. But all you could read on here was how bad O'Korn was and absolutely nothing about Gentry failing to attack the ball. I think it's likely a coaching flaw that our big guys don't win jump balls or become defenders when necessary. 

Alumnus93

September 18th, 2018 at 5:58 PM ^

this take is SPOT ON....  for years i have thought the same thing about our lines size... Michigan's lines of old were of Wisconsin's size today...big and menacing..then it went awry with the late RR years (although score a few for Lewan, and maybe Schofield, though he should have been kicked inside)...then onto Hoke, who puts Cole at LT...this was an abomination.... Cole was small to begin with and should be center...even at G he was small by old Michigan standards...  Harbaugh is doing the same thing with Runyan at T.....   

and i couldnt help but think that he was referring to Kalis, regarding his recruit ranking being out of whack...