Parsing DB's Quotes (and release text) on the Hiring of Hoke
What can we say? The quotes are alarming in their insular and inbred way.
"We don't have to teach him the words to "The Victors." Seriously, Dave? I have only one question to that: Did Bo know the words to "The Victors" when he, Don Canham and Bump were photographed at the coffee table press conference?
"Michigan was 5-3 against OSU, MSU and in bowl games while Hoke was in AA." Again. Seriously? I didn't know Brady had so much involvement with the full team operation during his years as D-Line coach. Having teams stocked with NFL caliber talent means U-M probably should have been a bit better than 5-3 against MSU in that era.
The delicate dancing around Hoke's record says all it needs to say.
Finally, the whole Plan A crap is patently absurd and laughable. Who knew that the LC coaching tree concept needed such validation as to tear down RR from DAY ONE, and continuing into the very last days of his time in AA. Yeah, that LC coaching tree is more of a bonsai with a few branches snapped off, rather than the Bo or Mo trees from 1970-1993.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:32 AM ^
Amen. And what about MSC who claimed that she didn't know who the new coach would be? That sure says alot - we are paying her big bucks to know that kind of thing. Time to clean house of the entire administration.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:39 AM ^
Derp.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:50 AM ^
I was furious about this hire, then I watched every Hoke interview on youtube.
The guy is legit. With a smooth transition it will be the right move.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:25 AM ^
He does well in interviews and was actually alright on Lettermen, but I still think he sounds kinda funny when he talks (is that just me?).
January 12th, 2011 at 8:40 AM ^
What? I hope you are being sarcastic. So what if she knew? She wasn't going to say anything whether she did or not. That was DB's decision and MSC had little to do with it.
I was upset at first too, but everyone needs to get over it. The decision was made and it's over. Support the team or go root for someone else.
January 12th, 2011 at 10:21 AM ^
Yes. Let's move forward folks. Let's get the Maize and Blue back on track. Bitching and moaning aren't going to do it. Hoke could be a great choice.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:38 AM ^
He was the reason Brady and Desmond stayed at Michigan.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:34 AM ^
Brandon said that the job was not offered to Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles.
Why not?
What was it that led to his decision to not offer the job to them?
Does David Brandon honestly think that Brady Hoke is a better college coach than Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles?
If yes, on what is that assessment based? If not, why didn't he offer the job to them?
If Hoke was your first choice all along, why talk to Harbaugh or Miles at all?
January 12th, 2011 at 8:36 AM ^
I wish I were going.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:37 AM ^
Not offering the job to Harbaugh because he wanted to go to the NFL makes sense. This was a criticism of the dream that several of us made during the season. Even if Harbaugh weren't getting an NFL job this year, it was clear that he wanted to go to the pros eventually, so why bring him in as a temporary HC?
As for Miles, I'm with you.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:40 AM ^
If Hoke truly was Brandon's Plan A, then why did he wait six days to offer him the position? Why let your recruiting class crumble while you jet all over the country talking to several coaches, apparently not offering them the position? By waiting so long, recruiting has taken a hit and no matter how DB tries to spin it, it is a big deal. These are the guys who will be juniors/seniors going into what would be Hoke's 4th season (where RR would be right now). A small class without a lot of punch could really be a problem in several years.
Also, if Hoke was Plan A, then why did DB ask to interview/send out feelers on Fitzgerald and Pinkel? If he was your guy, then go get him right away. Which side of your mouth are you talking out of, Dave?
January 12th, 2011 at 9:15 AM ^
My only guess is he went and talked to them about Hoke if Hoke was plan A.
January 12th, 2011 at 10:30 AM ^
No matter how we spin it this recruiting class was always going to be a flop because NO good defensive recruit was going to sign on to play with that dismal unit, and thats all we should have been recruiting. I see nothing wrong with trying to be diligent and looking at all the possibilities of who the next coach should be. The recruiting class might have crumbled but the recruiting class only crumbled as far as the initial firing of RR. Dee Hart was already wearing Bama gear on New Years day at the Bama - Mich St. Game (If him just being at that game and not ours wasn't a clear enough sign). Dee Hart saw our situation as poisonous as the season went on and probably would have switched even if RR was brought back. Dave was talking straight, direct, and clear all along, don't confuse what you read in blogs and in the press as something Dave said. Because what he said was he was going to be thorough and make sure he got the right man for the job. If he believes he did then we should all trust him until the results show differently which they might and might not. 1 year, 2 years, maybe 3 years; only time and games played will show the success of the decision process not our opinions!!!!
January 12th, 2011 at 8:40 AM ^
Do you think Hoke is a worse coach than Harbaugh and Miles? And what are you basing that off of? I think people aren't giving Hoke a fair shot and are simply looking at the "flash" of the other two and saying we missed out.
In reality do we want a guy who doesn't want to be here? Probably not.
and do we want a guy who's got his own NCAA troubles going on where a simple infraction could turn into a huge one at Michigan because we're on probation? Probably not. That would be like hiring a guy that got arrested for embezzlement to work as your CEO of your company.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:42 AM ^
I was against it at first. But I agree, give the new coach and players a chance. You never know what will happen.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:52 AM ^
Do you think Hoke is a worse coach than Harbaugh and Miles? And what are you basing that off of?
For serious? The guy's 52 years old and has not distinguished himself in his field. Regardless of your field, if you're undistinguished in your early fifties, chances are good that you will never distinguish yourself. And everybody knew it. His name wasn't mentioned seriously for other high-profile jobs. They didn't want him in Minnesota. We know that Miles and Harbaugh are successful, distinguished coaches.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:06 AM ^
Yes he has, at the two HC jobs he got hired for, both horrible teams, he turned them around in a matter of years. He's built up a reputation for turning horible into good and doing in the right way. His players love him and the AD of SDSU basically came out and said we were being silly for not wanting him.
Not to mention he beat out a one Bret Beilema for the Ball State job. And am I the only one that remembers the scare Ball State gave us in 2006?
January 12th, 2011 at 9:31 AM ^
First off, it took him 5 years to have a winning season at Ball St. That is not world beating by any means. The 6th year and that almost undefeated season is very impressive, but I would have like to have seen how he would have followed that up (impossible).
Second, what he has done at SDSU has been remarkable in turning the program around quickly, but can that be attributed to the other coaching staffs solid recruiting (i.e. kinda like Miles winning with Sabans players?).
Third, I have hated when people bring up that Ball State game in 2006. That was Lloyd ball at its finest. Michigan did not even show up to play that game, they looked horrendous. Did Ball State have something to do with it? Yeah, but that was mostly Michigan's doing rather than Ball States, IMO.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:40 AM ^
Ball State's previous winning record was ten years before Hoke got there. And the year after Hoke went 12-2 Ball State won 2 games. In fact, Ball State has only won 10+ games 1 time in their entire history. What he did was not just some random happening. Second point to that is that it's not exactly like you can take a MAC bottom feeder and get talent right away. 6 years at Ball State to bring it up to a 12 win season should be looked at as nothing short of a Miracle. Take Ron English's group at EMU for further proof that it's not easy.
As far as SDSU, it's likely we'll at least get part of their staff but in all honesty it's not like they were getting 4/5 star kids to come there. I highly doubt it has to do with a significantly higher talent level; especially because only after two years you're still probably working with the last coach's recruits.
Yeah, and to the "Michigan Ball" point....obviously Hoke wasn't playing it that day; so why the comparisons to Lloyd's mediocrity?
January 12th, 2011 at 10:19 AM ^
Just for the record, the ten years between winning records included four seasons under Hoke. Bill Lynch's final 3 seasons were 5-6, 5-6, and 6-6. The recovery from their two year, EMU type stretch was well under way by the time Hoke got there.
I'm not discounting his one good season at Ball State, but lets not make them appear worse than they were. Before their 10 straight losing seasons, they only had one in nine years. This wasn't the worst program in the MAC. Getting to one outstanding season is not demonstrative of success that couldn't have been achieved by someone else.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:07 AM ^
Do you think Hoke is a worse coach than Harbaugh and Miles? And what are you basing that off of?
I am guessing this isn't sarcasm (to which LOL), but here goes:
Harbaugh: #4 ranked Stanford, BCS bowl winner vs. VTech
Miles: National Championship winner, multiple BCS bowl wins
Hoke: 12-1 Ball State (who did not win the MAC title that year)
This is based off from facts. A fact is something that actually exists.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:11 AM ^
You're comparing a guy who coached at Ball State to two guys who coached at two BCS programs with a ton of money. Sorry the "facts" don't line up until Hoke is given the same level to play at. The facts read 0 for Hoke at a Major program.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:30 AM ^
Which brings the point if this is such a good hire why has he not had a BCS coaching job, or even won a conference championship, oh and is 12-1 season had non MAC victories over Indiana(3-9) Navy (8-5) and 1AA Northeastern(2-10).
January 12th, 2011 at 9:42 AM ^
He has had a BCS coaching job. He spent, what, 7/8 years with us? That's a huge chunk of his coaching career. Then he got hired in at Ball State, turned that around, hired in at SDSU, turned that around even quicker, and now got his first HC job at a major program. Seems like he jumped up every single hire.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:40 AM ^
DB to JH/LM: So if you know, we were to say, hypothetically, 5 mill a year to coach here would you do it?
<br>
<br>LM/JH: Is that an offer?
<br>
<br>DB: Do you see a piece of paper? No, mostly just gauging things.
<br>
<br>JH: Well Dave I could go to the NFL and coach Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree and Patrick Willis. So No.
<br>
<br>LM: Well Dave, you guys kinda suck now and I kinda like being able to recruit this Louisiana boys by saying I know real football, you know the way you guys USED to play? So No, sorry I don't think hypothetically I'd take the offer.
<br>
<br>DB: Alright guys well, good luck, and Go Blue. Just so it's clear, there was no offer there.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
That's the easy way out Don. If he doesn't offer the job to them, he can say Hoke was the number one option. He took the coward way out.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:49 AM ^
Yes, THIS. Again and again until there is an answer. Even in damage control mode, there is no reason to not offer the job to JH.
If Dave Brandon is to be believed at his word and he didn't even offer the job to Harbaugh he needs to explain his reasoning immediately.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:01 AM ^
has been exhausted, but I want to add how tired I am of DB playing the "safe card" and spoon feeding us BS.
About the only thing that has come from his mouth during the CC fiasco that I believe to be sincere is that Brady Hoke was always his #1 option, and that is absolutely sickening.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:35 AM ^
Brandon said that the job was not offered to Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles.
Why not?
What was it that led to his decision to not offer the job to them?
Despite the clearly nonsensical names many people on this site touted as potential candidates, I believe that Hoke, Harbaugh, and Miles were the only true candidates. Harbaugh essentially eliminated himself by making it clear to Brandon at some point that he was headed to the NFL. He might have been Plan A at some point, but we'll likely never know.
Once Harbaugh was eliminated, I believe Brandon immediately knew he wanted to hire Hoke. That's because I don't think there was any way that Miles was going to be offered the job. How could Michigan, having just been put on probation, hire a head coach whose program was itself in trouble with the NCAA and had been widely criticized for its practice of oversigning? Do you really believe that Brandon was going to take that chance?
As I stated here a couple of days--and was ridiculed for suggesting--the supposed interview with Miles wasn't really an interview. Brandon knew that he could not make the mistake that Bill Martin had made and simply ignore Miles. He needed to make it appear that Miles had been seriously considered for the job and then have Miles announce that he was going to stay at LSU. By doing this, Brandon has appeased that portion of the Michigan fan base who believe Miles should have gotten the job last time and prevented those same people from undermining Hoke.
So, basically Harbaugh and Miles eliminated themselves and thus never were offered the job. Brandon is probably not lying when he says Hoke was the first person he actually offered the job.
A side note on Miles: I don't really think he wanted the Michigan job this time around--I think he just wanted it to appear that Michigan was interested in giving it to him. This is why he agreed to meet with Brandon, and the two of them likely agreed that afterward Miles could hint that perhaps he had been offered the job and turned it down, but in return Miles would give a statement of support for Hoke and not do or say anything that might fracture the Michigan fan base. I believe Miles also realized that this was an opportunity for him to shore up his support among LSU fans by publicly turning down the job at his alma mater, state that he is "at peace" with never becoming the Michigan head coach, and thus be seen as being fully committed to the LSU program.
January 12th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
...times. Raoul hits the nail on the head.
It was always Harbaugh or Hoke. Harbaugh eliminated himself with his NFL aspirations and Miles eliminated himself with his violations and his poor relationships with his former coaching colleagues at U-M.
See this GBWM post that makes some of the same points. No idea of the bona fides of the poster and his source, but if you buy what he's saying, the decision (at least vis-a-vis Harbaugh and Miles) makes sense.
January 12th, 2011 at 11:24 AM ^
Thanks for that link, 'Shoe. That poster does make a lot of the same points I made, and, in case anyone wonders, I had not seen it before I made my post. This was just a theory I developed as I followed the search.
By the way, 'Shoe, you were certainly right about Harbaugh going to the NFL. I remember you saying how surprised you would be if he ended up at Michigan. That was a great call. I was among the many who thought the lure of coaching Michigan would be too great for him to pass up.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:35 AM ^
Brady was the associate head coach for part of his tenure at UM. Characterizing him solely as a D-line coach is selling him a bit short.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:03 AM ^
Just to be accurate:
Brady Hoke was Associate Head Coach for exactly one year, in 2002. That's certainly a good part of his resume, but phrasing it as "part of his tenure" gives the impression it was longer than that.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:40 AM ^
I can see Brandon technically not offering Harbaugh the job because Jim probably was straightforward during their meeting.
But Miles? I don't understand why there was even a meeting between the two. If Miles, as he stated numberous times, was supremely happy at LSU, why did he even accept the invitation to meet? He could have simply told Brandon, "thanks, but no thanks. We're sincerely happy here in Baton Rouge." Brandon could have publicly stated that, "I wanted to set up a meeting with Miles but he was adamant that he and his family are happy at LSU."
At any rate, it most certainly was NOT a national search.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:44 AM ^
Read Rosenberg's article on DB and Miles. Pretty good theory.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
1. He's using The Victors as something bigger than just knowing lyrics. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.
<br>2. Hoke was more than just the d-line coach. He was the associate head coach as well. Additionally, he played a large roll in recruiting while he was here. Don't sell him short.
<br>Admittedly, I'm lukewarm to Brady as well, but I think he can be successful and build a team we are proud of; unless of course the blogosphere is going to assume the role of the msm, hating everything he does until he is ridden out of town 3 to 4 years from now and we get to enjoy another coaching search.
<br>
<br>We should be talking about the staff and players, the coaching search is over.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:51 AM ^
I will certainly give Hoke a break but I am sorry, at this point DB no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. Now if Hoke fills in his coaching staff quickly so as to hit the recruiting trail as a group, then it was not a complete mess. Any delay in this aspect tells me Hoke was not Plan A and he wasn't just shooting the shit with Harbaugh and Miles.
January 12th, 2011 at 10:14 AM ^
If anything that's exactly what Mr. Brandon should get. He's the AD and knows a lot more than us regarding the coaching search. I'll reserve my judgement until I can see what the happens on the field, in the classroom and the community. Many on here are crucifying the AD and the criticism is baseless because we don't have tangible evidence that this hire is a failure.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:46 AM ^
The fact that Brandon thinks I'm dumb enough to buy the Plan A line is just plain insulting. If Hoke was Plan A he should have done the market research during December. Also Miles left AA before Hoke arrived, so why the hell would Miles even get asked? "Hey Les what kind of grass do you think we should feed him?".
I welcome Hoke and support him 100%. After all what was he supposed to do, say "No thanks guys, I don't have a winning record yet and I'm not qualified" thus leaving us twisting in the wind? Brandon however does not come off looking good. No matter what kind of record Hoke leaves, to me it is clear Brandon ran around like a chicken with his head cut off for a week before offering Hoke.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:59 AM ^
He knows him.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:54 AM ^
I know I don't want to hear that Hoke knows "The Victors," but the fanbase that knocked an outside hire and submarined the last guy is probably pretty happy with it. I suppose he's going to go on today about how Hoke already knows his way around the place and where all of his favorite restaurants are and how he's going to go to his old barber again and so much other bullshit that doesn't concern winning. If it shuts up the sweater-wearing, cheese-eating alumni that cut him a check every year, then I'm for it.
There's something to be said however, about pandering to a fanbase that used 3-9! 5-7! as ammo with rhetoric about one's Michigan identity. Moreover, there's something to be said about it working.
January 12th, 2011 at 8:55 AM ^
...it always bothered me how he seemed to downplay the importance of the rivalry games. (Maybe because he knew we couldn't be competitive.)
Hoke will have his work cut out for him, but I wish him well and hope he can restore the Michigan mystique in the minds of key recruits.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:02 AM ^
so we should support him and get on board. I have reset myself. At his point he has a clean slate and has done no wrong.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:14 AM ^
The blog is very useful for sharing opinions and coming to terms with things, however, everything that's written here has zero influence on what actually happens with the Michigan football program. Unless your name is Al Glick, Dave Brandon, Mary Sue Coleman or you are possibly a former player you have no ability to impact the program.
People need to come to terms with a few concepts:
1. Dave Brandon has a boss - Mary Sue Colemnan. It is possible that his entire coaching search was framed by her opinion. It is possible that opinion was that Harbaugh was not a good fit for the University of Michigan because she saw him as a character risk and uncontrollable. Perhaps Brandon agreed.
2. Les Miles did not end up @ U of M the first time around for far more than poaching J'ai Eugene from Lloyd Carr. It is possible that resentment lingered between the two men because of interpersonal dynamics from when they were on staff together.
3. It is possible the decision to hire Hoke was ultimately made not to heal the fanbase, but to heal the divide within Schembechler Hall. If Lloyd Carr was unwilling to be involved with the program under Rich Rodriguez as were many former players, it is possible that Brady Hoke was hired not for coaching ability but for his capacity to restore harmony.
These things are all possible. All you can do is hope it works out. We are powerless.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:23 AM ^
Forgot to include that in my several mgoboards this morning (sorry Sven!)...
Yeah, that "fractured fan base" seems to be the faction within Schembechler that wanted nothing to do with RR. Not really anyone here on the outside...
And thus, the numerous posts yesterday about why all the RR supporters haven't swung their weight behind Hoke yet. As if it's their fault the fracture existed inside/outside Schembechler in the first place!
January 12th, 2011 at 9:35 AM ^
You know what, seriously fuck Lloyd Carr. If we are about appeasing one guy, then we are screwed.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:56 AM ^
Keep in mind the premise - if you're not a former player, staff member, or major donor you ultimately don't matter. You exist only to buy tickets, merchandise, or perhaps in your case, pay tuition.
The people of influence are the ones that need to be on board and appeased. As stated previously, it is possible, the decision was not done ONLY for Lloyd Carr, but for the whole of Schembechler Hall.
It is also possible that Lloyd has some very legitimate reasons for discord with Les and that his opinion on character is valid. However, that does not necessarily mean that it should trump the true goal of finding the very best football coach to win football games.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:10 AM ^
Seriously? If you're trying to make the assertion that Brady Hoke's record at BSU and SDSU is more impressive than JH's championships at USD and subsequent record at Stanford, and more impressive than LM's record at Okie State and NC and subsequent record at LSU, then I'm really curious about your reasoning abilities.
That doesn't mean Hoke doesn't deserve our support, and I'm not going to be savaging him out of the gate the way so many did to RR.
January 12th, 2011 at 9:20 AM ^
Well Im sure DB is happy. He has a guy who's so happy to have the job that he won't mind when DB sits in on the Sunday film sessions. (As DB does which by the way has a scary Jerry Jones vibe to it.)
January 12th, 2011 at 9:53 AM ^
My gut reaction is that Brandon never really wanted Miles. I think that visit was for show and just to explore all options before making his decision. I would have embraced Miles but it was going to be tough with some of the "questionable" things he has done and our current status of being on probation. I think once Harbaugh communicated his interest in the NFL Hoke became his number one "personal" favorite. I think Brandon tried to get Harbaugh and thought he was probably coming. Everyone is saying 5.2 million was offered, the rumor I'm hearing is that was the figure tossed out there, but that was for Harbaugh AND his entire coaching staff, not just Harbaugh's salary.
Harbaugh was the best pick for many reasons which are obvious and Brandon saying Hoke was his first pick is spin IMO. But he did not really want to come. An NFL job without having to move and a lot of money won. Hoke isn't a flashy hire but how many of our good coaches were flashy? I want to have a great defense again and Hoke makes that at least a possibility. Look at almost all of our great teams, they all had great defenses. Its a cliche' but Defense wins championship. Look at the MNC game. They hype was all about both offenses. It came down to defense and the team with the better defense won.
Welcome coach Hoke, nothing but the best. Beat Sparty, beat the Buckeyes and lets get rolling again. GO BLUE!