OT: Mildly amusing post on NDNation.com about academic honesty

Submitted by JClay on

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=144925;d=this

My hope for students at Notre Dame accused of cheating to be treated fairly are low. My experience with it is neither fresh nor abundant, but it is first-hand. Notre Dame, as an institution, has done little if anything since my experience to raise my expectation of them in any way. The miscarriages and, at times, outright betrayal of the mission that the Powers that Be there have been entrusted with have been well-covered here, and it’s neither necessary nor appropriate to rehash them here. 

In fact, perhaps this post might be better suited for the Back Room, so my apologies to our hosts if I should direct this there. Considering the recent news from South Bend, I thought this would the correct forum. 

In the Fall of 1998, my last at Notre Dame (I was a transfer student, and took 4 ½ years to graduate, and so finished in the Fall), I took a class like a lot of other classes in the department of my major. What it was is irrelevant, as I think what happened to me could have happened to anyone in in any major. 

In lieu of a final exam in this particular class, we were given the option of writing a short paper- something like 4-5 pages if I recall. Going into this pseudo-final, I had something like a 95% average in the class. I thought I wrote a quality paper, and so was surprised that when my final grades came in the mail, I got a B- in the class. 

I emailed the instructor, who was in his first year at Notre Dame after coming from a Big 10 school, to clarify how my grade was calculated. 

Several weeks later, I received a letter in the mail from this person (I’ll say “him” or ”he” for the sake of ease) explaining that he didn’t believe I wrote the paper myself. Since it was my last semester at ND, he was somehow doing me a favor and giving me a zero on the final rather than taking it an Honesty Committee (as I believe it was, and maybe still is, called). The main reasons for his suspicions were: I used a book that was not available at any Notre Dame library as a source, I used a journal entry not available at a Notre Dame library as a source, I used the work “hermeneutic,” and that the overall tone of the paper was above what would be expected from an undergraduate student. 

Zero on the paper, B- in the class, I'm going to have a "great life," I should thank him for cutting me a break and just let it go. 

I got in my car the next day and drove from Rochester, NY, to South Bend. I visited this person during office hours, and explained to him that he was not in Big 10 anymore. The book I used and quoted from was from a book I had from a class I took at the school I transferred to Notre Dame from and brought with me because I liked it. I got the journal article from Lexus/Nexus, and there was this neat new thing out there called “the internet” that didn’t require the journal to physically be at Notre Dame. 

The next two of his accusations somehow more offensive then the first pair. I learned the word “hermeneutic” in a Theology class I took at Notre Dame. While his students in the Big 10 may not know that word, students at Notre Dame do. And that he found the overall tone be above what he expected should have demonstrated to him that he, again, wasn’t in the Big 10 anymore, but instead he deemed it to be a suggestion of academic impropriety. 15 years later, I’m still dumbfounded by that. 

I also took the time to inform him that if he is going to write me a letter and accuse me of cheating, he should have used my full, Christian legal first name of Joseph, not the diminutive of “Joe,” which is what he chose instead- both on the envelope and in the greeting line. It’s just bad form- well, perhaps not in the Big 10, but at Notre Dame it was. 

Just like all my previous points, and likely scores of others that he’d come across both before and since, all of this seemed to be beyond his grasp. In his Big 10 mind, I had cheated, he did me a favor by not turning me in, and no one under the age of 30 knows the word hermeneutic- let alone uses it on a paper. I was out of luck. 

Up until this point, I was dealing with an individual, not, you might argue, “Notre Dame.” It was when I took my case to “Notre Dame” that I discovered how arrogant, dim, and utterly unaccountable they are. 

Letters to the head of the department, the dean, provost and our esteemed president at the time, Monk, were met with either silence or a blue and gold brick wall. 

They were pathologically incapable of understanding, or perhaps admitting, that the rules weren’t followed. The instructor was judge, jury and executioner, and I had already been punished. Punished, in fact, without even ever being accused. 

The consistent line- and despite how unbelievable this is, this is what I was told- was that once a grade is entered, it cannot be changed. It was on my final transcript, and Notre Dame does not change final transcripts. If the instructor didn’t follow protocol, well too damned bad for me. 

Despite this, I demanded that I be able to state my case to an Honesty Committee. If they’re not going to change the grade- fine. But I deserved my day in court, and the instructor needed to be taken to task. After much cajoling, I was granted an Honesty Committee hearing. That was, until they decided that… 

The rules were that Honesty Committees only cover current students. By graduating, I lost the right to one. 

Think about that for a moment. 

Ultimately, I dropped it. You can’t fight Stupid and Arrogant, especially when Stupid and Arrogant answer to no one. 

So will these kids get a fair shake? I’m not hopeful that they will. They could have chosen to do the right thing for me, simply because it was the right thing, and no one would have ever known about it. If these students truly did nothing wrong, and ND does the right thing, ESPN and everyone else will be all over them. They couldn't be fair when there was nothing to lose, why would they be fair when they have their supposed reputation to lose? 

There is so much hilarious-stuff in there. I love how "Big-10" is thrown around like the slur to end all slurs.

Gucci Mane

August 21st, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^

This random Joe (literally) does not equal four highly important football players. ND will be trying to prove them innocent.

evenyoubrutus

August 21st, 2014 at 7:02 PM ^

Considering he has two lines of thought that are both equally outrageous: 1 that because he is at Notre Dame, he is clearly superior to his professor's Big Ten students and 2 that the football players are somehow in the same situation he was in, then yes, it is bad to feel sorry for him.

Needs

August 21st, 2014 at 4:40 PM ^

This thread seems like a good place for this...

George Gipp was a drunk and a pool-hall gambler who would've put glory's mantle up against your $5 if you spotted him the six and the break. The school has had booster problems like everyone else, and it has had 'roidheads like everyone else. If Notre Dame "stands apart," as the Times puts it, it's as a chronic bungler of sexual-assault accusations against football players.

This school can have a scandal every fucking year and keep its hands clean simply by saying: "Oh, this is not what Notre Dame is about. We're one of the good ones!" This is the Jim Nantz of schools.

http://deadspin.com/notre-dame-was-never-special-and-never-will-be-1624…

Jablueski

August 21st, 2014 at 4:41 PM ^

Surely, a great university with a great student, a knower of hermunetics, must also teach about small sample fallacies. Knowledge of the latter is far more important.

charblue.

August 21st, 2014 at 5:04 PM ^

Otherwise, acknowledging that ND has a penchant for protecting itself against stupidity by ignoring facts and inventing reasons not to consider a simple grading issue,  seems hardly an Honesty Committee rationale. If anything it just proves that a guy with noting to prove and nothing to lose, obsessed over the fact for years until he found the right audience to make his case with near-relevance. 

I'm guessing that none of those football players have the same "honesty" issue with a Big Ten prof than the assistant prof who squealed about proper sourcing in the case at hand. Who knows, maybe its just Karma and the universe getting revenge.

To hell with Notre Dame. 

Real Tackles Wear 77

August 21st, 2014 at 6:16 PM ^

Like FSU, NC State, Louisville...sure the ACC has it's share of quality academic institutions (probably more at the higher end than the B1G does) but let's not pretend it's the Ivy League.

And wow...my only reaction to that is "I thought we Michigan alums were arrogant...ND alums are in a whole different world"

Mi Sooner

August 21st, 2014 at 6:32 PM ^

working for two ND alums.  i would rather be dragged naked through a cactus field rather than have to be subjected to that again.  Hell, i would gladly work for a sparty alum or even an OSU alum again if the option is to work for hen or yet another ND alums.  greatest bunch of [pick a word/phrase] that i have known.

ESNY

August 21st, 2014 at 5:01 PM ^

So a demonstration of their academic excellence is a 4 page paper in lieu of a final?   What is this, 9th grade?  I used to have to go into 1 1/2 hour exams with like 3-4 blue books just in case (btw do they still use those?).  Even Terrell Pryor could write a 4 page paper for a final.

Evil Empire

August 21st, 2014 at 8:43 PM ^

I find it telling that he didn't include the name of the Big Ten school.  I suppose that allows the reader to fill the void with whatever B1G school he most wants to belittle.  It's like he's sparing the Big Ten school the embarrassment but not really.  Guy likes to have it both ways, doesn't he?

Sinsoftheschafer

August 21st, 2014 at 4:58 PM ^

The real humor here is that the only way a Prof would leave a research university (e.g. a B1G school) for a small private undergraduate focused institution (e.g. ND) is if they didn't make tenure.  This guy would be a B1G reject teaching at ND.

Everyone Murders

August 21st, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^

I'm guessing that if the word "hermeneutic" popped up in Joe the Domer's paper, his professor probably wasn't in a big research field. 

NDU is not a wasteland for all B1G professors.  You could make the argument that it is a big step down from the B1G for research-heavy positions (e.g., chemistry, life sciences, engineering), but that argument doesn't hold for non-research positions.

Oh, and the hell with Notre Dame. 

Everyone Murders

August 21st, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^

But there's research and there's (high dollar and high prestige) research.  And when you drop the word "hermeneutic" into your paper, there's a better-than-middling chance that it's for a theology, philosophy, or comparative religion class.  If I'm not off base on the topic Joe the Domer's professor taught, Notre Dame is a pretty prestigious place to teach those topics.  Especially theology and comparative religion. 

Did I mention to Hell with Notre Dame?  Just want to be sure.