Is Grosse Pointe stable, long-term? Still a U-M feeder?
When I was growing up The Pointes were one of the premier suburbs in the US. Even five years ago, U-M accepted nearly 75 Grosse Pointe South High School students per year (source: http://www.michigandaily.com/content/feeder-schools). But a buddy of mine at work said The Pointes remind him a lot of Cleveland's Shaker Heights, a formerly tony suburb that turned pretty average twenty-five or so years ago. I looked up the latest high school rankings for the state:
1-3 International Academies of Macomb, Bloomfield Hills, Washtenaw
4 City High, Grand Rapids
5 Seaholm, Birmingham
6 Saginaw Arts & Sciences
7 Okemos
8 Community, Ann Arbor
9 Adams, Rochester
10 East Grand Rapids
11 Northville
12 Troy
13 Forest Hills Central
13 Saline
15 Chelsea
16 Pioneer, Ann Arbor
17 Washtenaw Tech
18 Skyline, Ann Arbor
19 Athens, Troy
19 Novi
21 Houghton Central
22 Stoney Creek, Rochester
23 Black River (Public Charter), Holland
23 Harbor Springs
25 Forest Hills East
25 Grosse Pointe South
...
86 Grosse Pointe North
source: http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/schoolrank.aspx?level=3
With public schools being one method to gauge long-term appeal, it would seem in and around Ann Arbor is the star of the show. Northville, eastern burbs of Grand Rapids, Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham and Rochester/Oakland Township also seem to be investment worthy.
January 26th, 2015 at 4:16 PM ^
Their cross-town rival, Troy High, sends even more here.
January 26th, 2015 at 11:57 AM ^
It really seems as though you answered your own question.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^
Perhaps, but I don't live in the area. And public school health/decline is only one way to predict home values. There is often more to the story.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:20 PM ^
Sure. Wasn't trying to be a dick or anything. IIRC, you're the same OP who asked the MGoBoard about family-friendly cities to potentially move to in MI?
January 26th, 2015 at 12:27 PM ^
I grew up in "GP"
I had always sensed a black/white issue. As in the few times I'd see a black person in GP, there would almost always be a cop pulled up next to that person.
I haven't spent extensive time there in about a decade, but from what I've heard, there was a little bit of a freakout due to a high influx of black people for really the first time there. I think this started to happen heavy in around the recession years. To clarify, not my opinion of any race, but having family/friends, knowing hundreds of people from there, that was the "report" I received after leaving.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:34 PM ^
I don't think it's a racial thing, it's more a culture and crime thing. Worry over rental dwellings vs homeowners. Same thing happening in a lot of places post recession: http://www.grossepointenews.com/Articles-News-i-2015-01-22-255641.114135-Residents-want-rental-enforcement.html
January 26th, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^
I know people who have moved to Harper Woods because they can then get their kids into the GP school system. I don't blame them for doing that if they are trying to get the best for their kids. And I don't know what happens in the schools outside of what the news decides to report.
Now in terms of what happens to blacks in GP, I don't have first knowledge of bad stuff and I'm black. And I've been to GP a lot. The only time I was pulled over there, I ran a blinking red at 2AM right in front of a police car. He was very polite, told me to be careful and didn't even give me a written warning. It was my fault and I would have deserved a ticket, but the officer showed me kindness. And I was 19 at the time. He definitely could have rang me up if he wanted to.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ^
I think the term you're looking for is White Flight.
It happens everywhere when minorities move into more white, wealthy neighborhoods. Quite unfortunate.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^
It actually occurs much more in middle-class neighborhoods than wealthy ones. Upscale areas are too pricey for most people (of any race) to be able to move in, so they don't experience major demographic shifts.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^
Meant to say wealthier but yeah. It's pathetic regardless.
January 26th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^
I see no commits in this thread.
I demand hello threads!
January 26th, 2015 at 11:59 AM ^
the mighty have fallen. Most of GP is still very nice, but GP Park isn't what it used to be. The border with Detroit has hurt housing values and therefore increased the number of rental homes.
And the people with real money don't send their kids to public schools anymore.
January 26th, 2015 at 11:59 AM ^
the 'eastern burb' of Grand Rapids, puts like 97% of their graduates in college.Football team is meh, but those kids are damn smart, and UM is a popular choice.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:00 PM ^
"Tony suburb"
What is this, Martha Stewart Living?
January 26th, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^
January 26th, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^
Look, either your kid is U-M material or he/she isn't. Most of the suburban high schools are pretty solid. It's ultimately up to your child to take advantage.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:09 PM ^
This.
Sincerely,
Extremely Small Northern Michigan Public School Kid Graduated U of M (ESNMPSKGUoM)
January 26th, 2015 at 12:22 PM ^
January 26th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ^
...my graduating class was 54 and I got bonus points in the late-90s for hailing from a Northern Michigan town of 1200.
I was valedictorian and our salutatorian also went to and graduated U of M. The valedictorian the year before us also went to and graduated from U of M.
Funny thing is, at my freshman orientation there was a guy from Mackinaw Island...his graduating class was 7!!! I'm not sure if he graduated, he was a real party animal.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:18 PM ^
ie I am old and before Gratz. v. Bollinger (point system for admissions), which high school you went to very much played a role in admissions policy. Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, and Cranbrook applicants received a bump.
I'm sure some of the "feeder schools" with a track record of academic excellence and matriculants who succeed at Michigan still play a role in the admissions process. IE B.H. International Academy grad all things being equal would be admitted over a B.H. Consolidated grad
January 26th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^
I remember that. The bump was modest, though - much less than what you'd get for being underpriviledged. Generally, if you were a strong student at almost any high school in the state, you'd get in. The admissions rate back then in general was considerably higher than now. The switch to the Common Application has really changed things.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^
born and raised (GPSHS class of '91), I can assure you that there was absolutely nothing subtle about the racism there. Ask a GPP cop what a "NOMAD" is sometime...
January 26th, 2015 at 2:01 PM ^
Back then, and into the 80's and 70's GPW & S were a bit different than your side of town. GPN was always a bit more diverse than GPS.
Actually, we had just one black family at GPN while I went there ('82). They were treated quite well. The father had a couple of feathers in his cap. He was a small biz owner like many in GPW. And he had been convicted of tax evasion. The one crime that warms the heart of a true GP'er.
In fact, older GP'ers on this thread may figure the name out. It was definitely in the news at the time.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^
Not exactly sure why you threw that in there. It's irrelevant IMO. I work in Bloomfield Hills and have heard more crime stories out here than GP. Despite the news stories or rankings (good or bad), you will still get a great education in those schools.
But I'm not sure if this topic will end well when discussing the situation with GP's schools, based on the Facebook, DetNews, Freep comments. Honestly I don't know if this belongs on the board because it can go sideways very quickly.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:13 PM ^
I would encourage mods to delete this thread. The discussion above about subtle vs not so subtle racism has me shaking my head already.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:42 PM ^
This raises an interesting point over what counts as "political". I'm assuming that you're objecting to the comments on race and racism because they cross the no-politics line. But I'd argue that discussing the stability of Grosse Pointe's elite status without acknowledging that the form of segregation from which it draws its status represents one of the biggest moral failings of 20th Century America is, at the very least, a tad political.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:53 PM ^
What you are saying is true, but my main objection stems from the framing in which the conversation started as if one version of racism is better than another when they're both equally terrible. I've seen/experienced both forms during my time in Ann Arbor/MI and a UM sports blog is not a place that caters to objective points of view regarding the matter imo. It can get very heated quickly.
I should give MGoBlog more credit b/c most people on this blog handle these type of topics very well with maturity.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:18 PM ^
Wow, did not realize Commie High is so high up there. When my sister went there in the 80s, I'm pretty sure it wasn't anywhere close to that.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:29 PM ^
The '80s were right around the time when Community started to transform from a typical alternative school into a very desirable one. Parents at that time started to wonder why they were sending their kids to one of two gigantic high schools when there was this little other school out there too.
January 26th, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^
FYI, Newsweek rated Community as the 14th best high school in the Country in 2014 - like, out of all of them. Though when I was there we were best known for Jazz band and smoking crappy weed.
http://www.newsweek.com/high-schools/americas-top-schools-2014
January 26th, 2015 at 12:30 PM ^
Double-post.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^
Triple-post!
January 26th, 2015 at 12:22 PM ^
Glad to see us high on the list! And ahead of rival Novi. Maybe I should pull out my varsity jacket, Al Bundy style.....
January 26th, 2015 at 12:34 PM ^
These are all distinct questions.
As for its wealth, look it up compared to the other suburbs. Rochester has shady parts to it. So does Northville. Those two also seem to lack the high upper end from the looks of Jefferson compared to the nicest area of Rochester. Do you mean overall wealth, median, mean, etc?
As for whether the GP schools put kids into UM, check out the Daily stats you give. Things may have changed a bit. But these do not line up with the best HS in the state when you compare the two lists. One reason is that admissions is also sometimes based on other factors (legacy family, potential for success, etc.).
As for the School rankings, those are not the rankings of the best schools. They are rankings for state standardized test scores. Some districts teach to the test to look better, but the education is worse. Private schools don't even bother with that crap. I have seen rankings vary across the board and, much like recruiting, the differences in the schools ranked near each other is an illusion. There are good schools, okay schools and bad schools. The tenth ranked school is not that different than the 5th ranked school of the 15th ranked school. People just love ranking things.
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January 26th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ^
Where is the shady part of Northville? I grew up mainly there and my parents still live there. I cant really think of anywhere I would be uncomfortable.
January 26th, 2015 at 1:11 PM ^
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January 26th, 2015 at 12:52 PM ^
Hmm, I grew up near Rochester. If there are shady areas there, I'm not sure where they are.
January 26th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
I grew up in Rochester. Shady is hard to describe as a concept. I don't mean violent. I mean it from an economic standpoint compared to the rest of the city. It was in my "wealth" paragraph. Anyway, there is a trailer park and some cheap apartment complexes where people live on government assistance. (Not public housing, just cheap enough to afford on welfare.)
This may surprise you but there are homeless people everywhere. EDIT: By "everywhere" I mean in every American city, not all over the City of Rochester.
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January 26th, 2015 at 1:02 PM ^
January 26th, 2015 at 1:21 PM ^
Yeah, I know for years Wayne State always had the highest bar passage rate. They beat UM regularly. But, Michigan was clearly the better law school. WSU prepped you for the bar exam. UM and other top schools focused on legal theory, etc.
In the end the bar exam has little to nothing to do with practicing law. But, someone might look at the scorse of the Michigan bar exam and come to some wrong conclusions about ranking schools. (NOTE, I think both are good schools though).
January 26th, 2015 at 3:01 PM ^
is the one that (by reputation) teaches to the bar exam. I have never heard that about Wayne State.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
Saline grad here (class of 1996) - I know that around the time I was there, we would send what seemed like boatloads in the direction of Michigan (well, a significant percentage of a graduating class that was running 250-ish at the time). I would imagine that they still send quite a few perhaps.
January 26th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^
Saline grad within the last decade here - class of ~400 and around 30-40 went to U-M.
January 26th, 2015 at 12:37 PM ^
January 26th, 2015 at 12:40 PM ^
January 26th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^
January 26th, 2015 at 12:51 PM ^
Grosse Pointe South is fine. North has had its issues over the past few years and was never as good as South (note: I went to South so bias does play a bit of a role). It's slid backwards a bit since I left (late 2000s) but it's still a good district.