Do you care whether DB forced Coach Hoke to fire Al Borges?

Big fucking problem if he did. It should be the head coaches decision. If he can't make the right decision on his own, find somebody that can. If Dave Brandon thinks this sort of dynamic will work... congratulations all, we have the Jerry Jones of college football.

I'd prefer it to be Hoke's call, because that would mean hopefully Hoke has the sense not to interfere with how Nmeier runs the offense. But a close second is for it to have been DB's order, because that would mean hopefully Hoke has the sense of fear not to interfere with how Nmeier runs the offense.

Anyone who thinks it would be a good idea for the administration to be screwing around with the football staff underneath the head coach and generally making head coach decisions should take a good hard look to see how well that's worked out for UVA's program.  At Virginia we have a meddlesome underling to the AD; said underling is "in charge" of the football program, and is universally reviled among the fans on account of most things he (publicly)  touches turning to shit.

No way DB forced it. It was Hoke's call.  Yes he and Borges had success together for a few years and we're buddies.  Naturally Hoke brought the OC with whom he'd had success at SDSU. He gave it three years.  After this year it was clear it wasn't going to work. I also think that Hoke knows next year is pivotal for his own tenure and he needed to nip the offense problem in the bud.  Clearly it was a tough move to make given his personal relationship with Borges, but it's football and it's business and he had to do it.  The friendship doesnt outweigh his own job as HC and his job to win and he pulled the trigger. 

 

 

I read in one of the articles today that Coach Hoke pretty much convinced Nussheimer to come here. That made me feel better. I hoped Coach Hoke would replace Borges, because he would realize it was what was best for the team, and not because he's giving in to fan pressure or AD pressure. We may never know but I truly hope this works out for him and Coach Hoke retires as UM head coach 10 years from now, with some B1G and national championships under his belt. I'm so excited!!! I've been on cloud 9 all day and my Bye Bye Borges pumpkin bread was a hit at my office.

but in the end I don't think it makes much of a difference. I am sure it was talked about back and forth between Hoke and DB anyway. Hoke clearly has a friendship and strong bond with Borges but it was time to cut the cord. I am just fired up to see Michigan make a bold move when a lot of people thought they would stand pat.. and even more so when we saw that they had a very nice replacement ready to go just hours later. 

So, as for the topic.. yeah, I wish Brady did it. But i kinda understand the situation and Hoke likely knew it was happening one way or another? (speculation). It's just nice to see what could have been such a mess turn into a pretty unanimous good job done by the boys in blue.

Brandon is a Michigan man, A Bo disciple and a former player. He is not doing this job for money or prestige , he had that. He wants Michigan to be great in all aspects. He will be more involved because of the above, and, while providing great support to his coaches, ( especially the ones HE hires), he also will not hesitate to exert influence, force or make a decision if he feels one needs to be made. The HFC and the football team, because of DBs DNA must realize this and act accordingly. The football team is the marquee asset of the Michigan brand. O DB knows that and and I believe will do whatever it takes to protect it.

I don't care how we got here, but we did and I am fine with where it is. Getting a new OC was the right move and DB might have had a roll being that the salary is 1.3M, but I feel that in the end it will be a huge positive for everyone involved.

I could care less who pulled the rip cord.  The bottom line is this:  football is the Golden Goose of the University, and if it gets wrecked, the entire athletic department gets wrecked.  DB is waay too smart to let that happen. I give the man credit for being decisive and lugging some balls, he doesn't play around.

Brandons call. The new OC will take over as HC in 2015,  if Hoke fails next year. Easy transition.

 

Better put on a headset next year Hoke, & get in the game ...

of  M football is like trying to guess the lottery numbers.  We will never know.  Its sort of a non-story.  What's done is done, and I think it was handled with class and closed the window on the engine of speculation that was bound to rev higher with every day there was a vacancy.

I can see the scenario where Hoke knew that he was personally betting the farm on '14 and '15 if he kept the staff intact.simply because he would then be forcing his boss to make a decision on Hoke's next contract.  The downside would obviously be the chance to work his "dream job" would be over and he'd have to leave Ann Arbor and try to stoke up the embers somewhere else that he didn't care as much about.

That Nuss became "available" with an excellent set of circumstances that fit very nicely with what we do know about the current state of Michigan probably made it a no brainer, and politically saved at least two plus years out for Hoke.  I don't see Hoke going away without a fight.  It probably wouldn't be in the media, but I think that's why he's loved.

Once the chain of wins can become strung together again, this will all go away.  It would be super awesome if Nuss aspired to become Hoke's successor someday, I won't place a lot of eggs on that possibility...but its interesting to think about as I think if he has the type of results we all hope for, he would be the lead dog even over people named Harbaugh and Miles.

 

No I don't. The situation on the offense got bad enough to where I had to wonder if Borges being allowed to stay meant Hoke and DB were tolerant of mediocrity. This wasn't just one bad year. It's gotten worse every year since he's been here.

I don't doubt Borges gave his best effort, but when someone isn't getting results on the job, a change needs to be made. Sometimes forcibly.

It shows DB is concerned about getting the team to play great football again. He probably told Hoke that I was close to firing your ass after this pathetic season. So what the hell are you going to do to improve this team! Once solution coach may be to get a competent OC in here. Let me make a suggestion, since I know Bama may be considering a change! I'm glad it happened. And Hoke should know he better get this team to a championship level like he promised when he was hired.

me if Brandon had a hand in this.  IIRC Hoke seemed adamant that everyone was returing.  Either way, it was the right decision for not only the team, but for the program. 

crash and burn becaue of a bad defensive coordinator (or 2). 

Brandon does not want his choice for H.C. to fail for the same reason.  My bet is that Brandon was the impetus behind Hoke's move to fire Borges & hire Nussmeier. 

To understand his job relies on this season. I think that he and DB probably talked and decided if they could get someone better than al that they would. I think it was probably up to DB to find that person to give hoke cover of Borges had to stay.

I believe the right move was made. You can't question a clear upgrade at the position as well as a boost in recruiting. If Borges was let go for an in house or un-proven commodity then there may be some logical complaints. Whether or not Borges was forced out is a moot point IMO because he was performing well below the expectations for this team / staff. However what I believe happened is that DB told Hoke a much better product needed to see the field in 2014 and thus gave hoke no choice in pulling the plug on most peoples scapegoat.

that Brandon forced Hoke to fire Borges. At worse Brandon might have expressed concerns...and Hoke probably outlined what type of candidate it would take to make a move. And anyone who thinks Hoke would be more loyal to a coach than he is to his players or program hasn't been paying attention. Hoke might make wrong decisions but they won't be for the wrong reasons.

I want a coach who understands what needs to be done and has the stones to do it.  I'm sure Brandon was involved to some extent as he had to authorize the money to pull Nuss, but if DB had to dictate this move than Hoke is not much more than a paper tiger.

because that's a sign of dysfunction in the organization and an undermining of Hoke's authority, even if most fans like the decision.  It also doesn't speak well of either Hoke or Brandon going forward.

That said, I would guess that the catalyst was the availability of a slam-dunk hire, that was previously thought to be unattainable.  Having the best possible candidate at the right time meant that Hoke could make a choice he was comfortable with, that has a good chance of working out.

 

All this Rules of Bizniz blather is interesting, but the fact is that Borges' offenses have not done well. The only sane solution is to replace the guy.

Both Hoke and Brandon appear to be sane.

If it was Hoke's idea, he certainly needed budget approval. And if Brandon's idea, he needed Hoke's cooperation.

I'm sure it was handled gracefully.

 

My theory is that that Dave called Brady and said, "I've been reading the well reasoned evaluations that BIGBLUEWORLD has been posting about Al, and it makes a lot of sense." 

Then Brady said, "Son of a gun.  I was just reading his comments, and he's right.  You know some of those other dimwits even took points away from him for having the courage to speak up.  We gotta' do something about this!"

Then Dave replied, "I'm with you, dude.  Got anyone in mind."

Then Brady says, "Well you know..."

And the rest is history.

That's my theory. 

 

It doesn't really make a difference and I honestly couldn't care less which one did it, just that it was done. Personally, I am with those who think BH is just too loyal to have come to this on his own, and I don't see an issue with that. That means he's a loyal guy who can even become blinded by his loyalty (just like many of the people on this site) but when called back to reality, does the right thing.

The main point is we had an issue and someone recognized that and took action. Whether that was the head coach or the AD doesn't make much of a difference to me, just that it was addressed.

I guess IMO it would be better if Hoke did it. HOWEVER, if Brandon is stepping in and doing something good for once, this makes me happy. I don't see a problem with that at all -- If anything it's good that he is getting involved when he feels he needs to; kind of the opposite of Mr. Martin...

I'm just glad someone did something to give this program a jolt. Borges very well may have been a fall guy but if this were a Fortune 500 company (probably not that far off) people would be excused when things don't meet expectations.

Brandon:  So, Brady, how do you think the team performed this year?

 

Hoke:  Well, obviously far below our expectations.  This is Michigan fergodsakes.

 

Brandon:  OK.  So where do we need the most improvement?

 

Hoke:  Well, our offense really struggled at times.  we definitely need to get better at running, passing, blocking and just being consistent.

 

Brandon:  So, who coordinates all that?  Is that you or is there some other person not meeting my expectations?

 

Hoke:  Well my offense all runs through my Offensive Coordinator.

 

Brandon:  So, then what are we going to do with someone that isn't meeting our expectations?  (taps fingers sequentially on desk)

 

Hoke:  Well . . . Hmm . . . I see what you're saying.  . . . . I guess get someone better.

 

I think they were on the same page, but Hoke just needed to see that he really had to make a change, regardless of whether he wanted to now or later.  He knows Brandon is willing to support in any way possible to help the team meet expectations.  Brandon is high on meeting expectations, including those of a head coach's decision making and play on the field.

the program is in big trouble. I have no doubt that Hoke and Brandon discussed all of the staff with regard to the 2013 season and the program going forward. I think that it is a near certainty that discussions about releasing any of his staff were put forward by Hoke. 

Hoke's contract flatly states that hiring and firing is his responsibility with Brandon's approval. Hoke is also responsible for managing all aspects of his staff. He is held accountable for their conduct with regard to University and NCAA rules. Those were the terms under which he accepted the job and those terms allow him to make guarantees to his staff in which they can have confidence. If Brandon is dictating how Hoke manages his staff, then Brady is head coach in name only. No one can successfully run an organization with the kinds of pressures and work loads that exist in the Michigan football program as a figurehead and both Brandon and Hoke know it.

As the team's record has deteriorated, the notion that Brady is some charicature of Fred Flintstone and Oilver Hardy has gained traction. It's not true. Various commenters here have described the difficulty of ever rising to any head coaching position at any level of college football. Barring nepotism, brain dead good fellas don't get to be head coaches in D-1 football. Brady had what it took to get here and he didn't forget it when he stepped through the door.

Someone earlier commented about Brady's compensation. One reason for his level of compensation is so that he can afford to resist direct interference from management and walk if he deems it necessary to protect the level of autonomy that he believes is required to successfully do his job. He just got three years of deferred compensation. He can afford to walk if he is not allowed to run his staff in accord with his contract. Which is the reason that Brandon would never put Brady in that position and Brady would never allow Brandon to feel he had no choice to do otherwise. This also invalidates the notion that Brandon forced Nussmeier on Hoke. Brandon would have replaced Hoke with Nussmeier instead. 

Until the timeline of Nussmeier hiring process leaks we won't know when and how Michigan found out about his availability. At this point the most likely scenerio seems to be that once he knew Nussmeier was looking, Hoke, with DB's agreement, took the initiative to explore things with Nussmeier. Once Hoke decided Nussmeier was a fit and Brandon agreed and was willing to open his wallet and did the deal, the decision to release Borges was made by Hoke again with Brandon's approval.

I've fired close collegues some of whom are good friends, one is arguably my best friend. I've been fired by close collegues and by friends. Firing someone with whom you are close is not difficult because of the personal relationship, but because of the desire to be very sure that firing them is the right course of action. You never want to fire someone casually, but level of introspection is greater when you know the person well and view them with deep respect. When Hoke said that he respected Al both as a coach and more importantly a person it wasn't coach speak. 

While being fired is a very personal experience, in a case like this it happens for impersonal reasons. It is something that comes with the job. Once Brady decided that it was best for the program to make the change actually firing Al was the easy part and both men probably went out of their way to make it as easy for each other as possible. Note that Al has not had one bad word to say publically about any of this. Like him or hate him, so far he's been a class act all the way.