What Two Losing Seasons to Start a Tenure Means

Coach Rodriguez has been showing a penchant for ignoring historical statistics.

Hopefully his penchant continues for this particular one, and he sets new standards for the others.

concur - but the fact that UM/OSU haven't ever been here isn't history that comforts me. I'd like to break down the stats for the rest of the BCS teams, but at some point there's unfortunately (at least for me) a time limit.

NW, Indy, Iowa, etc. had been struggling BEFORE those guys got into the job.

I'm not discounting the downward trend UM was under Carr in the 2000's, but RichRod's 2nd year should be a lot better by now. We have REGRESSED and in a very bad way. No way should this team have given up 500 yds and 38 points to both Illinois and Purdue. GERG had a while to get this team ready to hold opponents to "only" 25 points a game.

I think either RichRod gets 8 wins next year, or we will get a new coach who can spark some interest. Even Pete Carroll, after a morobound 2nd John Robinson and Paul Hackett era, had SOME talent at USC to start with. The next UM coach, if RichRod is indeed canned this year or next, will have something to work with.

To expand on what bronxblue said:
Illinois: While they have won 5 NCs and 15 Big 10 championships total, their last NC was 1951 and they've only had 3 Big 10 championships since the mid 60s. All of the 2 losing season streaks have been since they stopped being such a contender.
Indiana: They have 2 Big 10 championships ever. And one was from a guy on your list. Enough said.
Iowa: 1 NC in 1958 (even though they were 8-1-1 and LSU was 11-0). 12 Big 10 championships, only 5 since the 60s. And all 5 since the 60s were with two of the coaches listed.
MSU: 6 NCs in the middle of the century, 6 big 10 championships. Not surprising.
Minnesota: 6 NCs (most recent was 1960). 18 Big 10 championships (most recent was 1967). Both of the coaches on your chart were since they stopped being a contender.
Northwestern: 8 Big 10 titles. I'm losing motivation to keep looking up years as these aren't listed on wikipedia (or at least I didn't see them).
PSU: As noted by another poster, they weren't even in the Big 10 then.
Purdue: 1 NC in 1931. 8 Big 10 titles, somewhat spread out throughout the years, although only one since 1967.
Wisconsin: 11 Big 10 titles. Again, I don't see the years listed on the wiki page.

Michigan is different than those teams. Even if those trends pan out in this case, the administration has to do what is in the best interest of the University. Cutting bait is a cute phrase but it doesn't give us what we want: a winning program.

If you've lost faith in RR consider that giving him more time (at least through 2010) is still probably the fastest way to a recovery. No one worth their salt would come here if we canned RichRod right now. We'd be picking from people who failed at other places rather than up an comers (Brian Kelly, Urban Meyer, Rich Rodriguez).

Personally, I'd like to see what the team does next season before casting a ballot.

blu,

In the main I quite respect your takes; however, this is not MSU valiantly trying to "rise from the ashes" every half decade or so...it seems a bit...hmmmm...hyperbolic related to conclude two seasons indeliably damages the brand.

Anyway, just my take. I would enjoy beating Wiscy and tUofOS.

Best wishes.

I think winning immediately brings back any aura you are talking about. USC, OU, Texas, Alabama, PSU and Miami off the top of my head had extended stretches (like longer than a year and 3/4) where they weren't even a blip on the national landscape in recent years. Once successful coaches got the ball rolling, that aura/tradition/invincibility or whatever you want to call it all came back really quick.

When the elite programs (Michigan among them) are winning, the MOJO is in full effect. I also think Rodriguez is just sick of getting grief for a process that is only halfway through. If you baked a cake and people kept coming in and saying you fucked it all up when you had just put the thing in the oven, you would get a little frazzled too. He probably doesn't like Michigan losing any more than the rest of us do, either.

You think the same records as those teams would satisfy Michigan fans? Lloyd did better than any of those three, and people kill him. They want MORE than that from Rich.

Fry, Ferentz and Alvarez won a combined 8 Big Ten titles in 46 years of coaching, roughly once every six years. Lloyd won 5 Big Ten titles in 13 years and RichRod was supposed to RAISE us from where we were.

Winning percentages:

Carr: 122-40 (.753)
Fry: 143-89 (.616)
Ferentz: 70-53 (.569)
Alvarez: 118-73 (.618)

I think more what Michigan Fans were holding out as a standard was a return to Michigan glory, maybe:

Schembechler: 194-48-5 (.802)
Tressel: 83-19 (.814)
Stoops: 109-24 (.819)
Brown: 115-26 (.815)
Carroll: 88-15 (.854)

I don't think that what Gary Barnett did at Northwestern, or Glen Mason did at Minnesota, or Hayden Fry did at Iowa.....has any bearing on what RR can/should do at Michigan.

Apples and Oranges. Michigan is in a much better position to compete than any of those programs.

Otherwise, there was a lot of good data pulled for the post.

But is it more heartening to think that Michigan, OSU, PSU and MSU have been in this situation a combined two times? PSU was in the 1930s when they were playing the east coast, and MSU fired Muddy Waters after three years. This should reinforce the "unacceptable under any circumstances unless we want to join the conference basement with the others" argument, I would think?

some of the most talent? What are you talking about. I'll bet the 061592 is your bday and the reason for your ignorance. Plus you just created your account yesterday. Read and learn before spouting off.

Read some of Misopogon's posts. Attrition, esp on defense has killed us. We do not have "some of the most talent in the country". We don't even stack up well against the rest of the B10. We'll get there, but it's going to take some time.

Exactly how many of the 2009 Wolverines would have started for the 1997 national championship team? Here's my list:

Brandon Graham (might start for any Michigan team ever)
Donovan Warren (would be a solid #2 corner on the '97 team)

(...)

Anybody else? Brandon Minor would have seen some pt, Koger would have been the #2 or #3 TE, maybe Stonum is the third WR. Martin is in the mix for a D line spot. Molk, if healthy, gets a starting spot. And Zoltan, obv. Stevie Brown? maybe a starter. That's our third or fourth best defender now, and he MIGHT be a starter in 1997. So out of 24 starters (throwing in the kickers to make it closer), the current team has maybe five players better than their 1997 counterparts, with a few current starters as 1997 backups. There are a number of players (like all of our linebackers, much of the secondary, and some of the O-line) that probably don't make the two-deep in '97.

Also, the depth of that team was unreal compared to today's team. Remember, Dhani Jones started that year as a backup. That team lost two key starters on defense during the season and never missed a beat. Tom Brady, in his third season at U-M, was the THIRD STRING QB!

Sure, it's a little unfair to compare this team to the most successful Michigan team in the last 60 years, but it takes talent to win championships. We have some very talented individuals, but we just don't have very many of them. On defense, outside of Graham, Warren, and Brown, we have duct tape and baling wire. And it's not even very good duct tape.

Sorry to inject politics into this, but blaming Rodriguez for this is like blaming Obama for the economy right now. If it doesn't get better next year, then ok, but he's doing the best he can with what he found when he got here. Which, unfortunately, is a big pile of suck.

I don't know what constitutes "good" anymore on defense; it's become a very relative term. But that said, it seems like we've played kind of good against the more run-heavy prostyle offenses that UW and OSU employ. Maybe a break from defending the spread will get us back on track. Hell, last time we faced a prostyle attack we were still a team on the rise. I think we can knock of UW and OSU if our offense keeps firing like it did yesterday.

I'm not of the opinion that anyone will phone in the last two games. Still too much character on the team with Minor and Graham.

We will be playing two of the best D's in the conference. UW plays tough at home and shut out Purdue, which runs the same offense that we do. Also, our D is good for at least 2-3 big scores a game. I just don't see the O keeping up on the road against an excellent D.

As for OSU, our best shot would have been if Pryor had stayed in his funk and lost yesterday. He looks much better than just a few weeks ago. His running will kill our D. Again, the Big Play Monster will bite us a few times in that game.

Let's face it, it isn't JUST coaching right now. These guys are not much better than a 7-5 team even with a good coach. Maybe next year, but not now.

At least I can say that the Offense is good most games. Even if you throw out the 63 pts vs. DSU, we are averaging 28 pts a game. The only really bad games were the PSU game and the 2nd half at Illinois. Last year, we couldn't stop anyone and we could score either!

as that even happened?

Overall, I'm happy with Martin. He did finally get the right hoops coach. And, Tommy wasn't that bad, he just wasn't that good. But after Ellerbe, at least the program got decent and the scandals went away.

Martin also tried to get Schiano who I think would have been a great fit here. Hard to blame him for that one. The Lloyd-Les feud really prevented anything happening with my 1st choice. Not sure Bill wanted him anyway (he may want him now).

There are a lot of good AD's out there who would love a chance to manage here. Nor do I think they would fire RichRod before the next season. That gives the guy the 3 yrs he said that he needs.

Spread seems to work fine in the Big 12, Pac-10, and SEC, where teams like Florida, Texas Tech, and Oregon don't seem to have too much trouble scoring and winning. Good teams can run any offense they want, irrespective of the system. This offense still leads the Big 10 (last I checked) and that is with a freshman QB and injuries along the line.

was because of the offense.