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Three And Out Takes: Carr, Rodriguez, Martin

By Brian — October 26th, 2011 at 2:14 PM — 466 comments
Filed under:
  • bill martin
  • coaching fiasco 2007
  • lloyd carr
  • lloyd carr illuminati
  • rich rodriguez
  • three and out

imageSo. It's out.

I'm impressed with the large numbers of people who seem to have already blazed their way through Three and Out. It took me a while. I stopped for a few days after "Honeymoon from Hell" because it was too depressing; every chapter featuring a game I knew they'd lose spectacularly required a little bit of willpower to start.

But I'm done and a large number of you are done. It is time to talk the turkey.

We've got this document. What does it say about major players in the saga? I was planning one part here but this got long, so today we'll cover Carr, Rodriguez, and Bill Martin, with various players with less prominent roles in the story covered in a post tomorrow.

Lloyd Carr

55313590F[1]

It says a few things about Lloyd Carr that are not nice, and implies more. Bacon's said he left a lot of things out that he could not get multiple sources on, which is both his responsibility as an actual journalist and horribly frustrating.

The main strikes:

  1. Informing his former players he would sign any transfer papers they wanted at his meeting with them after their bowl game, a marked contrast from the Bo-Bump transition.
  2. Telling Mallett he "needed to leave".
  3. Having zero control over his former players, or—worse—tacitly endorsing their behavior by not jumping down their throats.
  4. Offering something short of the fiery defense Bo would have launched once the program started taking fire.

That's aside from the state of the roster when Rodriguez took over, which wasn't specifically directed at the new man.

Those seem like major strikes. Screw it: those are major strikes, particularly #3. I find it inconceivable that Eric Mayes would made it thirty seconds into the embarrassing "we own this program" speech before Bo burst from his chest like a Xenomorph. Carr does nothing. Multiple former players trash Rodriguez in public. Carr does nothing. The 2009 golf outing that even guys like Chris Balas* come back from disgusted at, naming specific names of players (Marlin Jackson, Dhani Jones) who embarrassed themselves with their behavior. Is Carr even at it? It's worse if he is.

So, like, whatever. Carr doesn't owe anyone anything except the 400k a year he was pulling down as associate AD. But he's no program patriarch. He's just a guy who used to coach here. His loyalty is to an incredibly specific version of Michigan only. The difference between the Bo guys and the Carr guys is obvious. Bo guys organize a weird counterproductive rally for RR; Carr guys go on MNF and state they're from "Lloyd Carr's Michigan" or storm the AD's office to demand RR's firing after every loss**. There are exceptions, obviously. The trend is clear.

I have no sympathy for arguments the guy is being painted unfairly when he was offered the opportunity to tell his side a dozen times. If history is written by the losers here it's because the winners don't care what the public thinks. They can't be surprised when the public thinks they're not Bo.

Carr did a lot of things for the program but his legacy is significantly tarnished by the pit it found itself in immediately after his departure. It was his lack of a coaching tree, lack of serious coordinators, and lack of tolerance for Les Miles that caused Michigan to hire Rodriguez in the first place. It was his lack of a roster—seven scholarship OL!—and lack of support that provided Rodriguez with two strikes before he even coached a game. We can argue about how much is Carr's fault and how much is Rodriguez's, but figuring out the latter is pointless since RR is gone and everyone hates him. The former is "far too much."

*[By this I mean guys who work for publications for whom access is lifeblood. They're naturally more circumspect. The reaction on premium sites to this golf outing was unprecedented, with people moved to call actual former players out by name after years of dark mutterings.]

**[Not in the book; something I got from a good source.]

Rich Rodriguez

123110_SPT_Gator Bowl_MRM

via AnnArbor.com

If you left a goat in the locker room after a Michigan loss and then locked Rodriguez in it for five minutes, you would return to find the walls smeared with blood and feta. There would be no trace of the goat.

Rich Rodriguez was obviously not a stoic guy. His sideline tantrums proved that. The extent of his leg-gashing, table-throwing, goat-cheese-making post-loss hissies is probably the thing that Rodriguez is pissed about. They don't make him look like a stable dude. Neither does his descent into J. Edgar Hoover-esque paranoia, no matter how intent the university was on making that paranoia seems reasonable.

By the time I got through it, my reaction to Rodriguez's portrayal was different than that of the media reviewing the book. It doesn't paint Rodriguez as a guy I would want in charge of my football program. I can deal with one goat-annihilating postgame tantrum a year. Rodriguez seemed to have one after every loss.

So why do most neutral accounts play up the Rodriguez sympathy angle? They do not take the truth that the local media is dominated by agenda-laden twits to be self-evident. When Mike Rosenberg—who comes off as a real winner—bombed Rodriguez with a bunch of half-truths and misrepresentations I bombed back, stating that it was obvious the buyout kerfuffle was university-directed. Surprise: it was university-directed as they tried to get out of their 2.5 million dollar hook. Similarly, Free Press Jihad is re-exposed as a bunch of half-truths at best run by a couple of guys who "had countable hours in there at some point" but had it edited out, no doubt because that's not at all important in a discussion about whether Michigan was more than doubling their allotted time on Sundays.

If you go into the book knowing Rosenberg and Snyder published an embarrassing hack-job and that a large part of the media firestorm surrounding Rodriguez was a combination of University incompetence and the tiny lizard brains of certain folk in the local media*, the main takeaway from the book in re: RR is the sheer height of the plumes his emotional volcano shoots up. I mean, Bacon spends pages and pages on Rodriguez playing up the traditions of Michigan to his players. That's an obvious reaction to the Michigan Man business. I assumed Rodriguez was not an idiot when it came to firing up his troops, I guess, and that stuff shot by me. Beating a bleating ungulate against the wall of the Notre Dame locker room until it bursts into a kaleidoscope of viscera… that stays with you.

I feel bad for the guy. I'm glad he's gone.

*[The rest a combo of Rodriguez never winning any games and his remarkable ability to stick his leg into the press conference bear trap.]

Bill Martin

University of Michigan Athletic Director Bill Martin watches over Thursday afternoon, August 20th's football practice at the Michigan practice facility outside of Schembechler Hall. 
Lon Horwedel | Ann Arbor.com

Good Lord, man. I find it hard to believe that a guy who dragged Michigan kicking and screaming into massive financial success and smoothly hired John Beilein (admittedly after making a questionable hire in Tommy Amaker) was really as incompetent as… uh… I believed he was after the sailboat incident. That's Yogi Berra right there but it's also true.

Here's the the story of the post-Carr coaching search from the perspective of this site:

  1. Kirk Ferentz is reached out to and either is or is not offered; if offered he may have been given an offer that was a paycut. Ferentz fades but it seems like there was truth to the rumors.
  2. Flailing. Miles heavily discussed. ESPN reports Michigan contacts him after Ferentz falls through. They agree to wait until the SEC championship game is over. LSU boards buzz that Les has told his team he's out. I would be "surprised if it was not" Miles.
  3. Infamous ESPN report.
  4. Sailboat. "Have a great day." Sailboat.
  5. Conclusion reached in the aftermath is that M "essentially passed on Miles."
  6. Tedford and Schiano now start getting thrown around along with odder names like Grobe and Pinkel. Also some guy named Hoke. So much Hoke.
  7. Kirk Ferentz momentarily back. Then gone.
  8. Schiano talked to, offered, accepts, changes mind, offered again, says no.
  9. Sean Payton!
  10. Miles again! Seriously!
  11. Miles out again.
  12. Jim Grobe. Jim Grobe does not get an exclamation point.
  13. KC Keeler! Lane Kiffin! Seriously!
  14. Rodriguez out of nowhere.
  15. Sigh… Peanut Butter Jelly Time.

It seemed like a clown show, and behind the scenes… clown show. Martin wants Dungy, has no idea if Dungy—who is a broadcaster and can be contacted by anyone at any time for any reason—will take the job. Wants Ferentz, has no idea that the president of the university will stab him if he hires Ferentz. Wants Miles, has no idea that Lloyd Carr will stab him if he hires Miles. Somehow misses on Schiano, then has Rodriguez fall into his lap and grabs him before anyone can think about it, which sets up the whole buyout fiasco the media will spin for six months. The sailboat incident is even worse since Bacon asserts one of the main problems was Martin had a new cell phone and didn't know how to use it.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh /dies

Martin himself drops out of the story shortly thereafter, which is another indictment of the guy because what enters is a vast institutional incompetence that starts the Rodriguez media cockroach katamari rolling. Everything from the buyout to the Dorsey situation is mishandled not only by Rodriguez (sometimes not even by Rodriguez, as with the buyout) but by the people who should be telling him what is and is not possible. When Rodriguez went to bat for Dorsey with a guy in admissions the guy in admissions should have looked at the guy's transcript before saying yes, and then when he did look at the transcript he should have said no.

Instead we actually sign the guy—opening us up to the most cynical and loathsome of all the lizard-brain media attacks—only to find out he is nowhere near eligible. And don't get me started on the CARA forms, which was a special brand of idiocy all on its own. Martin did a lot of big picture stuff very well, but he was totally unprepared to fix a department that had started downhill long before he arrived.

For all the crap I give Brandon about his failure on big picture stuff, he cleaned out the deadwood with alacrity.

TOMORROW: Players, reporters, me/us(!?).

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:20 PM | I want my copy of the book! (Score:1)
Wave83
Joined: 03/09/2011
MGoPoints: 557

I want my copy of the book so I can catch up!!!  Arghhh.

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October 27th, 2011 at 11:20 AM | I don't mind knowing things (Score:1 Normal)
San Diego Mick
Joined: 05/11/2011
MGoPoints: 1573

Before i read about them sometimes, especially about this topic, it just makes me more anticipated of something i knew was gonna piss me off, you know, confirmation of what i already had suspected.

 

That damn fiasco was so pissing me off at the time, i was so incensed with that idiot Martin, argh!!!You're most important duty in that gig is the U-M Football coach, BY FAR!

I'm glad we got Hoke now and i think we're headed into a pretty cool era in M sports especially Football and B-Ball, Hockey, Softball, Swimming, Gymnastics, Wrestling, etc.

 

BTW Brian,  i have my issues with you on many topics, but that was an outstanding article by you sir, thank you for your efforts, very insightful.

 

Go Blue!!!

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:24 PM | yeesh (Score:3 Normal)
Mat
Mat's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1534

Book just got released to the common man yesterday.

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:31 PM | Speaking of this, to (Score:2)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8797

Speaking of this, to individuals who want to post Three and Out stuff in a thread (or start a topic), tag it please.  Something like:

 

3&O:

Spoilers....

Give those of us who haven't had time to speed read the book a chance to avert our eyes and avoid spoilers.

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:34 PM | spoiler: (Score:5 Normal)
lunchboxthegoat
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Joined: 10/07/2008
MGoPoints: 1888

They fire the Head Coach. 

successfully achieved 1 year self-imposed posting ban 4/10/13

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October 26th, 2011 at 6:30 PM | ugh... (Score:1)
oriental andrew
oriental andrew's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 4587

DAMN YOU!!!!!

For my privacy, my new username is "non-Oriental non-Andrew"
 

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October 26th, 2011 at 8:25 PM | The last three yers have been (Score:2)
milhouse
milhouse's picture
Joined: 05/29/2010
MGoPoints: 372

The last three yers have been such a soap opera I wouldn't be suprised to find out that RR wasn't fired.  We all just bumped our collective heads and are having a really really bad coma dream for the last 3 years.  ...Or that RR is still actually coaching the team.  we're all going to find out at the end of the season that RR has been wearing a Hoke costume this whole time.

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:25 PM | This (Score:5 Normal)
M Wolve
Joined: 09/04/2011
MGoPoints: 738

is the first time I refuse to read the front page of the blog.  C'mon, Amazon, get your trucks movin.

Bring back Keith Jackson

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:48 PM | This (Score:2)
gobluehtown
gobluehtown's picture
Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 619

So I got the super saver shipping. It comes on Friday. This discussion should happen later.

-A Texas Wolverine

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:49 PM | Amazon Prime man...best free (Score:1)
thisisme08
thisisme08's picture
Joined: 12/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1487

Amazon Prime man...best free (student), $40 (offer after student expires), $70(forever) you can ever spend in a year. 

Blue is Faster

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:53 PM | That crap is bankrupting my (Score:5 Normal)
Feat of Clay
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Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2886

That crap is bankrupting my family. My husband went back to school this fall and is SO ENAMORED of the free Amazon Prime benefit, I swear I'm seeing a three Amazon shipments a week since school started.

The next box better have a surprise copy of 3 & out in it, is what I am saying.

 

Candace: No... That why they make smart word box for tell monkey hard brain-hurty things.
Phineas: Removing prepositions makes it more condescending.
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October 26th, 2011 at 2:59 PM | HEY GUYS LOOK IT'S A GIRL! (Score:5 Normal)
bdsisme
bdsisme's picture
Joined: 09/19/2010
MGoPoints: 5513

HEY GUYS LOOK IT'S A GIRL!

"It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach."

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:55 PM | This isn't Xbox Live. (Score:1)
hart20
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Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 3755

C'mon now.

Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.

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October 26th, 2011 at 4:12 PM | I thought my leering creeper (Score:5 Normal)
Feat of Clay
Feat of Clay's picture
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2886

I thought my leering creeper comments about Devin Gardner's photo the other day would already have tipped you fellas off.

But then I remembered:  You don't got to be a girl to find that man delicious-looking. /no homo

 

Candace: No... That why they make smart word box for tell monkey hard brain-hurty things.
Phineas: Removing prepositions makes it more condescending.
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October 26th, 2011 at 2:59 PM | You don't even have to be a (Score:5 Normal)
Farnn
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2396

You don't even have to be a current student to get it.  I used my umich.edu email address, which I can't access but which forwards to my gmail, and got a year for free.

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:13 PM | This is (Score:3 Normal)
Genzilla
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Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 601

The Michigan Difference

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:25 PM | depending how devious you are (Score:1)
Vivz
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Joined: 12/14/2010
MGoPoints: 944

you could also create a private umich group that forwards only to yourself...

History is written by the victors-Winston Churchill
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October 26th, 2011 at 3:40 PM | Also works for the Verizon (Score:2)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8797

Also works for the Verizon staff/faculty discount, as detailed here.

The full freebie list is here.

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October 26th, 2011 at 4:19 PM | The faculty-staff deals are sweet. (Score:2)
Feat of Clay
Feat of Clay's picture
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2886

That list has gotten big, jeez.  

I've bought my car using the special pricing plan, save 15% off our cellular bill, and regularly hit up Bagger Dave's & Plum Market for a price break.  National car rental has a substantial discount too.  I save a ton on hotels this summer using the alumni association discount, too. 

I also like the payroll deduction offered by Computer Showcase.  

It's good to work for the U.  People often ask me "Do you get free football tickets?"  After I wipe away the tears of laughter, I explain that there are other pretty good perks.

 

Candace: No... That why they make smart word box for tell monkey hard brain-hurty things.
Phineas: Removing prepositions makes it more condescending.
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October 26th, 2011 at 2:25 PM | Natural Question (Score:2 Normal)
Genzilla
Genzilla's picture
Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 601

Is Brady Hoke more Bo or more Lloyd.  So far I'm convinced that he is much more Bo than Lloyd, I just need to hear other people say the same.

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:28 PM | From what I have seen so far (Score:2 Normal)
yeahrice
Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 271

From what I have seen so far this season, Hoke is more Bo than he is Carr

Biochemistry

Class of 2010.

 

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:30 PM | He is Moeller without the (Score:5 Normal)
TripleLindy
TripleLindy's picture
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 65

He is Moeller without the scotch. 

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:44 PM | very good point (Score:2 Normal)
J. Lichty
J. Lichty's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1134

and you notice in the book that Moeller was supportive of the program while RR was there too. 

our package is our package, and it’s pretty big. - Greg Mattison, Bowl Practice Presser Tr. 12-13-11.

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October 26th, 2011 at 8:59 PM | The more I hear of this the (Score:5 Normal)
MileHighWolverine
Joined: 09/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1261

The more I hear of this the more I wish LC was the one who got drunk and fired and Mo had stuck around....

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October 27th, 2011 at 7:36 PM | Agreed.. (Score:1)
Yost Ghost
Yost Ghost's picture
Joined: 01/18/2011
MGoPoints: 655

I've had this same thought many times over the years. It didn't seem fair that Mo made one mistake and he's ridden out on a rail. I've never been able to find a source to confirm whether the key players on the 97' NC team were Mo's or Carr's. Who recruited Woodson? Considering the timing I'm guessing they were mostly Moeller's recruits. Carr's personality of being closed off and introverted probably didn't make him the strongest recruiter on staff. Be that as it may, one wonders what could have been had Mo been allowed to continue.

 
"True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is nois
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October 28th, 2011 at 10:27 AM | Except that wasn't the case at all (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
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Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 39217

Carr was a great recruiter. Tom Lemming had him and the program as one of the top 3 in the country (with Bowden/FSU, and probably the coach du jour). Just because he was prickly with the media doesn't mean he wasn't charming in person, particularly with recruits and their families. There's a reason most of his players love him.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:04 PM | Better than both in some ways, really (Score:5 Normal)
PurpleStuff
PurpleStuff's picture
Joined: 04/21/2009
MGoPoints: 10415

Bo pissed off a lot of people when he arrived, and if not for the OSU win (even with it his record in his first year was identical to Bump's last, and we had lost to a shitty MSU team) and a run of pretty much constant success (finished 1st or 2nd in the Big Ten throughout his first decade on the job) things may have been a lot tougher for him.  Brady has essentially gotten the free pass of unconditional support from all the people close to the program from the moment he arrived, thanks to his prior time here and his personality/attitude.  Like Bo, he was nicely set up for success by inheriting a talented team, but with the added benefit of having little/no expectations for the beginning of his tenure (expectations I'm sure he'll greatly exceed by season's end).

He also hires experienced, qualified coordinators to run his offense and defense for him, something Carr (and probably Bo as well) either weren't able to do (cheap ass athletic department refusing to pay high salaries) or were simply unwilling to do.  Coaching and play calling aren't going to make a team much better or worse than their talent/experience allows, but one has to imagine things would have gone differently if say in 2006 Carr had been able to hire guys like Borges and Mattison rather than English and DeBord (again). 

 

It is spelled HOKEAMANIA.  Our coach is an ass-kicking American citizen, not one of the Beatles, for Christ's sake!

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:20 PM | OK, so why didn't RR get the (Score:4 Normal)
JakeinVeniceFL
Joined: 11/20/2009
MGoPoints: 340

OK, so why didn't RR get the treatment that Bo got or at least something?  Why can't Lloyd get out in front and say hey...cut the guy some slack, new system...blah, blah, blah.  Why can't Martin come out and say the same...who had RR's back?  His boss, nope!

The "institution", the "Michigan Men", stayed silent, left him to flap in the breeze...while others attacked.

Look, I think for many reasons it didn't/wasn't going to work but damn, you hired the guy at least give him some support.  RR had many problems, but in the end most were fixable..media style, tradition knowledge, player transitions etc..again no help. 

Hell Rita said it best..to MSC, "Do you want us here?"  Sure, just don't tell the Regents I offered to pay $2.5M of your buyout.

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:27 PM | I always laught at the (Score:5 Normal)
His Dudeness
His Dudeness's picture
Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13616

I always laught at the "tradition knowledge" thing.

RR let the #1 jersey into a few spring practices... by accident.

Hoke (or DB) allowed the HOME JERSEY AND HELMET to be changed and the away jerseys (meh) and the helmet for the entire year (completely on Hoke).

Who is the one who allowed tradition with regards to the jerseys go completely off the tracks? It certainly wasn't the coach who "didn't know the tradition."

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:34 PM | Don't think that was up to Hoke (Score:1)
Rabbit21
Rabbit21's picture
Joined: 11/12/2009
MGoPoints: 1704

DB seemed pretty determined to mess with the jersey, and while there are many issues to go to your boss and fall on your sword about that isn;t one of them(no matter how much the jerseys suck).  I still think the helmet numbers thing is weird but there is a historical precedent for it and so if that falls under Hoke so be it. 

Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought.  It always defeats order because it is better organized. 

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:47 PM | yeah - but can you imaging the howling if (Score:3 Normal)
J. Lichty
J. Lichty's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1134

the unis changed like  that under RR?  RR hates kittens and Michigan.

our package is our package, and it’s pretty big. - Greg Mattison, Bowl Practice Presser Tr. 12-13-11.

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:52 PM | It is interesting how you (Score:3 Normal)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8797

It is interesting how you always see Brandon rolling around with Mo at his side, but rarely Carr.  Carr is on campus reasonably often (he speaks at SPH and the hospital) and still active in some Mott's fundraising, but a rare sight on the Athletic Campus.  Too bad we won't be getting a book on the politics of Brandon's leadership at some point.  

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October 26th, 2011 at 4:57 PM | The jerseys I will agree with (Score:2 Normal)
His Dudeness
His Dudeness's picture
Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13616

The jerseys I will agree with you, but the choice o wear the helmet all year was a choice Hoke let the players have alone. It was his choice. He said so himself. Now I am not saying this as a "I hate Hoke" thing because i don't hate the guy. I am just saying that Hoke made a choice, knowing the tradition, that changed the jerseys far more than RR ever did.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:33 PM | Record (Score:5 Normal)
Enjoy Life
Enjoy Life's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 2477

If RR had even gone 6-6 that first season and kept the bowl streak alive, things would have been much different. After 3-9, only a miracle was going to save him (and by miracle I mean winning seasons and beating MSU and osu).

In the end, winning is all that matters. If Hoke does not put up the numbers he will not last very long either.

Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST

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October 26th, 2011 at 11:34 PM | Yes and no. (Score:2 Normal)
dragonchild
Joined: 10/13/2011
MGoPoints: 381

I agree that people are playing up the political angle like that's all there was.  Maybe his job was made unnecessarily unpleasant by people who wanted him gone, but he could've made things difficult for them by winning.  I really don't understand why Carr was expected to defend RR.  He was pretty obviously burned out and couldn't care less about Michigan by the time he resigned, anyway.  And I refuse to accept the excuse that people being mean to RR kept him from doing his job.  I've been in situations where I was set up for failure and called everything under the sun while working insane hours.  OK, I quit that job (after three years, in fact), but I wasn't making seven figures either.

That said, I disagree that "after 3-9, only a miracle was going to save him."  First off, EVERYONE (at least on the outside looking in) said it was going to take around 3 years, and while I'm not connected to the inside, the reality is that's what he was given.  If the insiders were calling for him to be fired after every loss, well. . . he wasn't.  He did an awful lot of losing at Michigan.  Second, beating MSU and OSU by your third year isn't a miracle; it's a goddamn expectation at Michigan.  Everyone who knows anything about Michigan knows that; RR can't claim to have been surprised about that.

The political drama is fascinating and all, but don't make me rub salt in old wounds by doing a blow-by-blow of the scores dropped on Michigan last year.  RR was NOT fired after losing to MSU and OSU, even twice in a row.  He was NOT fired after a 3-9 season.  He was fired only after a defensive implosion so spectacular and historic that you'd have to be stark-raving mad to expect him to be back.  NO coach would've survived such a humiliating failure, not even the reincarnation of Bo himself.

Regardless of how mean people were to him, RR had his chances.

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October 27th, 2011 at 4:07 PM | I haven't got the book yet, (Score:1)
bjk
bjk's picture
Joined: 11/27/2009
MGoPoints: 830

so my interpretation of the second-hand accounts may be incorrect.

If I understand correctly, however, RR might have had more chances but for the treachery inside the AD. On one of the reviews I thought I saw an excerpt suggesting that the preparation for the 2009 MSU game, which was very close, was chewed up by meetings mandated by the Rosenberg hit piece, itself a result of spies and backstabbers inside the AD. Would more actual coaching rather than damage repair for a hit job provoked by sabotage in the AD have turned the outcome of the MSU game? The season would have been on a whole different trajectory for the equally close Iowa game the next week.

If this sabotage of the coach's working environment was the margin of loss in the MSU game, then the victim wasn't just RR; it was the team, the fans, the season and the tradition.

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:38 PM | I agree with you (Score:5 Normal)
PurpleStuff
PurpleStuff's picture
Joined: 04/21/2009
MGoPoints: 10415

I think Rich Rodriguez did a fantastic job under adverse circumstances rebuilding a program that by the time he coached his first game was broken.  For all the bitching and moaning that recruiting had slipped and attrition would kill the team indefinitely and OMG he's totally ignoring defensive recruiting, we are watching a team made up almost entirely of Rodriguez recruits/signings that is deep, talented, still relatively young, ranked in the top 20 nationally, with an offense that is scoring nearly 35 points per game, and a defense that is giving up less than 15 per game.  A team that is a 4th and inches away from being undefeated.  Yet people still go on hateful tirades any time something positive is said about the guy because they were unfairly forced to watch their favorite team lose a couple of games.

It would be nice if at this point people would just say "Thank you" and move on but even that just isn't going to happen because an outsider came in and Michigan football wasn't as good as people wanted/remembered and they couldn't handle that, for even a brief period of time. 

Luckily we were able to replace one great coach with another, and the loudmouthed idiots seem to like this one.  Unfortunately those idiots will continue to think that this team is magically better because different guys are running practices and calling plays.

It is spelled HOKEAMANIA.  Our coach is an ass-kicking American citizen, not one of the Beatles, for Christ's sake!

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:47 PM | Exactly (Score:5 Normal)
JeepinBen
JeepinBen's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9572

It's not like Rich wanted to fail. Or sabotaged Michigan. I don't get why people hate him. If I ever have the chance to meet him again, I'll shake his hand, say I'm sorry it didn't work out, thanks for everything you did for Michigan and good luck wherever you go. On Saturday's I'll cheer on Brady just as hard, and once Brady's done I'll support the next guy.

If I ever meet Lloyd again I'll do the same. Shake his hand, and say "Thanks for everything you've done for Michigan" without a hint of sarcasm.

Yes, we're fans, we want the team to win. I don't remember which player tweeted it, it's our entertainment, their LIVES. These men gave their all to Michigan. The least we can do is thank them.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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October 26th, 2011 at 4:06 PM | Most on this blog were patient! (Score:2 Normal)
uminks
uminks's picture
Joined: 11/10/2009
MGoPoints: 1454

I always thought RR should be given four to five years to turn the program around. I'm not sure if he would have?  I was frustrated in the DC and other defensive coaches. There was no improvement in the defense between '09 and '10. When Brandon made the change, I was not too upset. RR was not the complete coach while here at Michigan.  May be at his next coaching gig he will learn from his mistakes here and be able assemble a complete and competent coaching staff.

So far, coach Hoke is doing a great job. I hope that he and his staff won't let the team falter into a collapse. I think they have a chance to win 3 or more of their last 5 games. Even two wins out of the last 5 would put him at 8 wins for his first season, which is not too bad.

expect the best

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October 26th, 2011 at 4:15 PM | I think the refusal to (Score:3 Normal)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8797

I think the refusal to completely clean house on the defensive side and the mere shuffling of chairs (fire Schafer, hire GERG, fire Hopson, etc) really made a 4th year moot.  

We were what, #4 in offense yards in RR's third year.  Even if we went to #1 it wasn't going to offset the defensive problems and his staff wasn't going to fix the D.  Year 4 would have been "We're awesome on offseason and I drink heavily whenever we're on D".  

Maybe if we'd had decisive action right after the regular season regarding a new DC and staff then he'd have survived.  By mid Decemeber when the cream of the available coordinators and the like had already been grabbed I think it became clear we were cleaning house and bringing in a HC who'd bring a full staff with him.  

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October 26th, 2011 at 4:54 PM | Yes, but we just did a full (Score:1 Normal)
His Dudeness
His Dudeness's picture
Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13616

Yes, but we just did a full scale clean house on D and we moved from 108 to 8 in scoring D.

So if RR had just changed DC to somebody capable we would have been very very formittable this year IMO.

PS.  I am not sure if what I wrote here is agreeing with you or not.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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October 26th, 2011 at 6:25 PM | I think his point is that he (Score:5 Normal)
dcmaizeandblue
Joined: 04/01/2010
MGoPoints: 678

I think his point is that he wasn't willing to do what you said and clean house completely.

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October 27th, 2011 at 4:39 PM | right, but.... (Score:1)
mtzlblk
Joined: 01/20/2009
MGoPoints: 205

remember he was only working with a fraction of the ~$650,000 being paid to Mattison to shore up the Hoke hire. 

RR was working with a salary level far below average in trying to recruit a DC and was therefore limited to up and comers like shafer that wanted the exposure, or a come and gone like GERG. I don't think he really had the ability to hire a top-notch DC, especially when you add in that his tenure was in question from almost day 1. 

What elite/upper-level DC would willingly look at that as a good career move?

Also factor in the depleted talent-base and that is a recipe for career disaster.  

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October 28th, 2011 at 8:42 AM | Are you sure? (Score:2 Normal)
Reader71
Reader71's picture
Joined: 08/30/2009
MGoPoints: 317

Are you sure that "fantastic" isn't too strong a word for Rich Rod's performance?

Perhaps "admirable"? "Good", maybe?

His record is awful. His Big Ten record is even worse. He set all sorts of records for futility. I don't see how that could be construed as "fantastic".

Why would we say we've moved from one great coach to another when we haven't? That's not what happened at all.

I also disagree with the notion that the program was broken. I was a huge Carr supporter, but even I wanted him out after the Appalachian State game. It was time for him to move on. Does that mean the program was broken? A program that was coming off of a 9-4 season and a bowl win? With Mallett, Boren, and (possibly) Manningham and Arrington back to a system they were familar with? I don't think so. The program broke the minute they decided to go outside for a successor.

"In war, resolution; in defeat, defiance; in victory, magnanimity." 

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October 27th, 2011 at 4:20 PM | "and a run of pretty much (Score:2)
Elmer
Elmer's picture
Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2178

"and a run of pretty much constant success (finished 1st or 2nd in the Big Ten throughout his first decade on the job)"

How many coaches anywhere have a tough time when your team goes 10-1 almost ever year and win the conference championship almost every other year?

 

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:26 PM | Your MGoBlog Word of the Day (Score:5 Normal)
Ace
Ace's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 23752

Your MGoBlog Word of the Day is "alacrity," apparently.

"Recruiting Ninja" | Email | Twitter

 

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:00 PM | Ungulate (Score:5 Normal)
ST3
ST3's picture
Joined: 09/11/2010
MGoPoints: 2188

I would have gone with "ungulate".

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October 26th, 2011 at 3:38 PM | Not ashamed (Score:3 Normal)
Y0ST
Y0ST's picture
Joined: 02/25/2010
MGoPoints: 720

I'm not ashamed to admit that I had to look up both words.

"True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise - the other, loyalty." — Yost

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October 26th, 2011 at 5:05 PM | I vote for a phrase (Score:3 Normal)
GoWings2008
GoWings2008's picture
Joined: 01/26/2011
MGoPoints: 1574

that caught my eye...

"kaleidoscope of viscera"

The Team, The Team, The Team

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October 26th, 2011 at 2:28 PM | I have gone through about 1/4 (Score:5 Normal)
Go Blue Eyes
Go Blue Eyes's picture
Joined: 12/05/2010
MGoPoints: 574

I have gone through about 1/4 of the book so far and it is still amazing that Bill Martin has a concourse at Michigan Stadium named after him. 

"...Martin had a new cell phone and didn't know how to use it," pretty much sums up a man who is completely out of touch. 

This is the only book I have ever read the prologue on and it reads like an upcoming preview of a disaster movie.  You know the Titanic is going to sink but you still have to watch it. 

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