QB Battle SZN [Bryan Fuller]

Fall Football Bits Is Fully Healthy Comment Count

Alex.Drain August 11th, 2022 at 4:20 PM

Earlier this week marked the return of The Enemy, Ranked, while today marks the return of Fall Football Bits. With just 23 days to football season for the Michigan Wolverines and with fall camp underway, the insider buzz is starting to leak out, giving us enough nuggets to bring Fall Football Bits back. Today will be an offense-only piece because the first week of practice is without pads, making it much tougher to assess the defense. Therefore, most of the rumors at this time concern the offensive side of the ball. We will check in on the defense next week when there is enough material to go off of. 

 

Quarterback

What we want to hear: Cade McNamara has grown in innumerable ways thanks to a season at the helm in the B1G. He's no longer throwing the ball into the back of his center's head and is even looking a bit quicker. JJ McCarthy's shoulder is 100%, he's downloaded the full playbook, and has gotten rid of all the freshman mistakes. 

What we're hearing: Right now Cade McNamara and JJ McCarthy are locked in an extremely tight duel, according to just about anyone who has offered insight. We've heard all kinds of phrases to describe it, "50-50", "a battle", "reps split down the middle". That appears to be the most factual description, while different insiders have consulted their own sources to try and interpret what it means, with Balas' source trotting out the ole "Cade will start the year, but JJ will pull through mid-season" theory ($). Those who have gone through the hassle of trying to describe individual practices are mostly rehashing what we know, that Cade has limitations with his arm and (occasionally) accuracy, while JJ makes the back-breaking naive error trying to do too much in between stretches of brilliance. In other words, not a ton has changed. 

Harbaugh gave some interesting quotes about QB on Jansen's pod, one comparing the competition to the back-and-forth nature of a long-distance track race and then he talked about when he'll make a decision on the starting job: 

It could come eight, nine practices in. In the past, that’s kind of when you really want to check. If it’s clear at that point, then we could have a true starter at that point. But it may not. It may go past that. Because they’re very close

One last note: we've heard next to nothing about the likes of Bowman or Davis Warren (why would we?) but we have gotten confirmation that the staff has drawn up packages for Alex Orji ($), to take advantage of his athleticism. Goodbye VillariCat, hello OrjiCat. 

What it means: I've long been of the belief that if JJ and Cade are actually running 50-50 at this point, after McCarthy had a limited spring with the shoulder issue, that Cade's days as the starter are drawing to an end. I still believe that, but I guess the big question is whether the two are getting 50-50 reps because they are truly even or because the staff wants to keep both sides happy. I tend to believe the former because that's what people are saying, but it's important to keep in mind the possibility of the latter. While I would probably err on the side of upside in picking a starter if the guys are tied (read: JJ), I would assume that the staff, given their tendencies, would err on the side of safety (Cade). I reckon JJ will need to be a bit better in camp to win the job out of the gate, especially after Harbaugh sent McNamara to B1G Media Day. 

[AFTER THE JUMP: try and guess which walk-on TE gets mentioned today]

 

[Bryan Fuller]

Running Back 

What we want to hear: Blake Corum is now officially the 5'8" version of the Incredible Hulk and is primed to take a run at the Heisman. Donovan Edwards is Christian McCaffrey 2.0 and even Tavierre Dunlap is starting to get the word "Haskins" muttered by observers under their breath. 

What we're hearing: Much like last August, the buzz at RB isn't terribly plentiful because everyone knows that the lead dogs are legit. Blake Corum needs no hype train from the coaches; that can be obtained by pulling up game tape of last season. Donovan Edwards also is a pretty known quantity, even if he's played just one season in Ann Arbor. Both got fawning praise from Harbaugh on the Jansen pod, but nothing terribly notable was said and references to them in insider reporting has been scant. No surprise there. 

We have gotten some rumblings on the #3 RB spot, though. The sexy name right now appears to be the same sexy name from the Spring Game, Kalel Mullings. Matt Weiss spoke to the media a few days ago and confirmed that Mullings is practicing on both sides of the football, but really all the buzz has been about him at RB. Josh Henschke reported that RB3 is a "toss-up" between all conceivable options, Mullings, Tavierre Dunlap, and Leon Franklin, but gave the most favorable review to Mullings ($). The general buzz about this spot on the depth chart has clearly come with the understanding that it is unsettled, as Balas used the phrase "there's no Hassan Haskins to move the chains when nothing's there" ($). Doesn't sound like the coaching staff feels they have the next horse ready yet, and I certainly wouldn't discount the idea that Mullings could be RB3. 

What it means: Corum RB1... small gap... Edwards RB2... large gap... Mullings/Dunlap/Franklin RB3, with perhaps Mullings a nose ahead of Dunlap. Stay tuned on the RB3 battle, because that one feels like it's going down to the wire.  

 

Wide Receiver 

What we want to hear: Everyone who was good last year is back and this time, they're even better. The three freshmen receivers are here and they're all studs, and even old fogey Ronnie Bell is ready to rock and roll with a knee that is as good as new. 

What we're hearing: Let's start with the best news, that Ronnie Bell appears fully healthy and operational. Harbaugh gave a very positive update on the podcast: 

Every day, I think (Bell) does something that I might have been worried about. ‘Can I do that? Can I make this cut? Can I make this play? Can I leave my feet and make a catch and come down?’

He then tells a story about Bell going up for a jump ball with DJ Turner and coming down with it just fine, which apparently brightened Bell's mood because as Harbaugh put it, "I’ve never seen Ronnie in a better mood the rest of the practice because you know he was worried about that". Each day seems to clear a new hurdle for Bell to get back to full functionality. For now, he's on track. 

Outside of that anecdote, the receiver room seems to be chugging along just fine. The most interesting piece of information came from a Josh Henschke report late last week where he noted that coaches are heaping humongous praise about the potential of Andrel Anthony and Darius Clemons, two young receivers who seem to have garnered a lofty descriptor ($). If you're wondering how Michigan plans to feed everybody if guys like Anthony/Clemons are getting hype and Bell is back to full health, we've seen reports from multiple insiders saying that the offense is set to be "more balanced" this year and that five-wide is on the menu this year to keep everyone happy. 

What it means: This positional group is incredibly deep, but we already knew this. There's not much else that is terribly new here outside of the Ronnie Bell health news, and it's hard to build a depth chart at the moment. My hope is that as August rolls along, we get more information as to who is in position to get the most snaps, unless it is an even rotation among five or six guys. Check back in later for more information at this positional group. 

 

[Patrick Barron]

Tight End

What we want to hear: Erick All is going to win the Mackey Award and Luke Schoonmaker is Zach Gentry reincarnate. Matt Hibner and Louis Hansen are ready to start if needed and this room has depth for dayyyyyyys. Even Colston Loveland is ready to dunk on some B1G DBs like he did in Idaho. 

What we're hearing: Let's start by spoon-feeding you the hype from the head coach himself: 

The guys are Schoonmaker, Erick All — they’re both phenomenal. I’ve said this and I really believe it: they could be two of the best in the entire country.

Like many spots on the offense, the insiders haven't paid as much attention to the big guys at TE because they are known to be good players. The Harbaugh quote above sums up the gist of what we've heard: Schoonmaker and All are both really good, we all know that, next. Also like the other spots, chatter has surrounded some of the reserves. Max Bredeson, the walk-on brother of Ben, has had his name pop up in a couple places, with Henschke asserting that he's impressing and could be in line for some reps ($) and Harbaugh dedicating a whole paragraph to Bredeson. That (rambling) paragraph included the following quote on Bredeson: "Max is gonna play, no doubt about that". At 6'2", he's the smallest TE in the room so I could see him having a FB-like role. 

Colston Loveland retains the buzz he had in the spring and there continues to be the pervasive sense that he will get to see the field as a true freshman in some capacity. The coaches love that kid. Finally there was a line in that same Henschke report that caught my eye, one about Matt Hibner, a player we haven't heard that much about frankly. Evidently coaches are glowing about his athleticism and where it ranks among the roster ($).  

What it means: This is close to what we want to hear. Schoonmaker and All are the starters and will get the lion's share of the snaps. Hongiford, not mentioned at all really, figures to still have a blocking-first role, closer to tackle-size while Bredeson is closer to FB-size. All snaps beyond that will be a grab bag of options at this ridiculously deep position. Draw straws between Hibner, who they need to keep happy as a third year guy, Selzer, who played last year in a deep cut capacity, and Louis Hansen, who needs to see the field some. Methinks that Loveland may be constrained to mop up duty in an effort to preserve the redshirt. 

 

Offensive Line

What we want to hear: The offensive line that just won the Joe Moore Award is even better with the addition of Olu Oluwatimi. All the returning starters have made jumps and Zak Zinter is primed for All-America status without a club on his hand. Trente Jones is going to make us forget about Andrew Stueber and oh, every backup on the two-deep would start for half the teams in the B1G. 

What we're hearing: There hasn't been a ton of individualized praise along the offensive line, just the general belief that the unit should be as good as last year, if not better. The more detailed buzz centers around the physical transformations that some guys made. As Seth detailed last weekTrevor Keegan is 19 pounds lighter than he was last season and insiders are asserting that this was "bad weight" that should make him quicker and more effective. Olu Oluwatimi has continued to get the hype he got back in spring practice and we got a Balas quote saying that Mazi Smith hasn't faced a player as strong as Oluwatimi since Cesar Ruiz ($). Otherwise, this is a line with a bunch of known quantities and an exceptionally high floor, so it's understandable we're not hearing a ton. 

Where the juicier information lies is with the backups. Right now it would appear that Karsen Barnhart is the sixth man at all positions but center, while Greg Crippen is still the reserve at that position (as he was last year). There's good news about Reece Atteberry, who suffered a bad leg injury in the spring. Harbaugh gave us a positive update on him on the Jansen pod: 

Reece Atteberry got hurt in the spring, but he’s had some real physical, dominant plays already in the fall camp.

Seems like he's penciled in on the two-deep at one of the guard spots. One sentence before that, Harbaugh rhetorically asked whether Jeff Persi can backup at LT, and given that framing, I'd assume he occupies that spot on the depth chart right now. Josh Henschke provided us with the fifth name on the two-deep, second-year prospect Gio El-Hadi ($), but I haven't heard any individual praise for him yet. 

The final nugget of interest here is not a player on the two-deep but someone Harbaugh name-droped on the podcast in a manner that I was pretty surprised to read. Here's his quote on true freshman OT Andrew Gentry

Good young guys. Andrew Gentry’s really the one that pops the most right now. He’s one offensive lineman that could get a lot of play as a true freshman, Andrew Gentry. 

As you may recall, Gentry has been away from football for two years while serving his Mormon mission trip. The assumption was that he would need quite a bit of physical transformation and practice before he could even begin to see the field given that long of an absence. That he's being name-dropped as someone who could see the field at all as a true freshman is pretty unexpected. We shall see if the hype continues. 

What it means: The continued absence of any discussion about a RT battle makes me feel pretty good about writing Trente Jones' name down in sharpie at that position. Which means that the five starters are locked in and there's a lot of reason to believe the starting OL will kick ass again. Karsen Barnhart is next man up, followed by Persi at tackle, Atteberry at guard, and Crippen at center, with El-Hadi having the ability to play wherever. Those five are the leaders to be the line that comes in with the reserves against CSU, Hawaii, and UCONN, while someone like Gentry is probably only coming in on a final drive in one of those games. That he's being mentioned in that context at all, though, is very good news for his future and development arc. 

Comments

crg

August 11th, 2022 at 4:35 PM ^

Regarding QB... they might want to draw up more packages for Donovan Edwards.  That throw in the BTCG was immaculate.  Not someone you want throwing dozens of times per game, but a few here and there keeps everyone on their toes.

Buy Bushwood

August 12th, 2022 at 11:14 AM ^

Not targeting.  Brought his helmet across not into him.  But yea, had about 3 steps to stop and didn't.  Having said that, aren't the rules different after a pitch?  I think he loses the QB protection.  Not sure what the rule becomes then, as obviously you can't be tackling people whenever/however you wish.  But you also can't expect a dude pursuing a back on a presumed sweep to have the same awareness for a throw as if he's hitting a stationary QB in the pocket. 

Blue@LSU

August 12th, 2022 at 12:42 PM ^

Good point. It might be different when it's a RB pass as opposed to a QB. I don't know the rules there. But targeting doesn't have to be helmet to helmet, though. From the NCAA rulebook:

‘Targeting’ means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to:

  • Launch. A player leaving their feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area.
  • A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground.
  • Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area.
  • Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet.

I think it would qualify under the 3rd bullet point. 

stephenrjking

August 11th, 2022 at 5:00 PM ^

If he can really repeat that, it wouldn’t surprise me if they put in a few. Harbaugh was certainly willing to pile on the trick plays that worked last year.

The key is that it only makes sense if you can exploit the efforts of the defense to counter the play. Flea flickers can work every game because they utilize normal run action, and then you have an experienced passer that can adapt to whatever coverage is left.  Halfback passes use surprise, but if Edwards takes a pitchout or a long lateral every game and the DB knows to bail with the play side receiver the instant he sees Edwards running toward the edge, you need to be able to do something else with that action or it won’t work. And then, is it worth practicing a whole package of those plays? 
 

trustBlue

August 12th, 2022 at 12:25 AM ^

Isn't the idea that you are exploiting the fact that the DBs keys are usually to come up and provide run support once the RB takes the handoff? 

If they try to counter the threat of an occassional running back pass by refusing to ever use their DBs in run support until the RB is across the line of scrimmage, then I think the threat is giving you everything that you want. 

blueblood06

August 12th, 2022 at 9:57 AM ^

Yeah, this.  Getting the ball to Edwards in the flat is presumably something they will be trying to do multiple times a game.  He's a huge threat to the defense on his own there.  I don't think any defense can presume that Edwards heading toward the edge is first and foremost a passing threat. 

crg

August 12th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^

Of course those "trick" plays where people weren't expecting Edwards to throw the ball are great - and more would be great.

I'm also suggesting that we have some options ready to go for having Edwards in *lined up* as a QB though.  If he can reliably throw the ball like that, it's worth having as a possibility.  If anyone recalls the 2015 season, Baylor lost their top three QBs to injury through the season and was down to their 4th string (converted WR, I believe).  Having someone like Edwards who could sub in as a true dual-threat QB could be a good emergency backup.

Papabearblue2

August 14th, 2022 at 5:59 PM ^

Yep, 2015.

Baylor shittiness aside this was one of the most amazing bowl stories that I feel doesnt get enough respect/attention.

Baylor(17) played NC(10) in the Russell Athletic Bowl. Baylor was missing all 3 QB's, their Biletnikoff winning WR and their starting RB (who had 1329 yards on the season). They started a WR at QB.

Baylor went on to win 49-38, they only attempted 18 passes but rushed for 645!!! yards on 84 attempts for 7.7 YPA and ALL 7 of their TD's.

Johnny Jefferson at QB went 1/3 passing (24 yards) but ran for 299 yards on 23 attempts for 13.0! YPA and 3 TD's,

Baylor set the "All-time rushing bowl record by team".

The game started with a Baylor stall and an NC touchdown and felt kinda "womp-womp" at first but quickly became one of the most entertaining games I've ever seen.

AC1997

August 11th, 2022 at 4:50 PM ^

I love the idea of Max Bredeson at fullback.  That's the type of guy you want there - smart, experienced, short, strong, not likely to impact at other places, etc.  I love Erick All, but I love him better at TE or Slot while Max is thumping fools in front of Corum.  

Joby

August 12th, 2022 at 2:31 AM ^

Per mgoblue.com, 232. Definitely smaller than Mason, and way smaller than Khalid Hill; more like Joe Kerridge or Sione Houma. 

 

Speaking of mgoblue.com, the Google search for the mgoblue roster has some mildly amusing errors. Check out the photos of Derrick Moore, whose brief time on campus certainly seems to have matured him, and Ronnie "maybe if I run a route for you then you won't mistake me for Roman" Bell.  The roster itself has the photos correct. 

AC1997

August 11th, 2022 at 4:51 PM ^

My wildass guess is that Cade starts the first game with JJ getting a couple of drives per half and then by mid-season those roles have flipped.  I think you want them both game-ready and engaged while playing to their strengths so they both should play even if I hate rotating QBs....so we'll see. 

GoBlueSMB

August 12th, 2022 at 8:31 AM ^

The thing is though, those reps have to be meaningful...What I mean is, Harbaugh has got to open up the offense for both guys in those early out of conference games.   So, if JJ comes in say on the 2nd or 3rd drive, don't just have him had off the ball the whole series.

Last year we didn't throw anywhere near enough the first half of the season.  Yeah, we were winning on the ground playing man ball but man ball is NOT going to win you a Natty.  You have to have a balanced offense.   Hell in the first 4 games, Cade never had more that 16 pass attempts.  And to only have 20 total passing TD's by our 2 QB's, in this modern age of college football, that's just not going to cut it.

 

 

JonathanE

August 12th, 2022 at 9:50 AM ^

Different set of circumstances. You had a first-year starter backed up by a true freshman. As for wide receivers, your number-one experienced wideout went down with a season ending injury of the first half of the first game and you had a ground game which was just mauling people. Although I would have liked to have seen some more down field shots, I can understand why the offense played conservative.

GoBlueSMB

August 12th, 2022 at 11:00 AM ^

Those are fair points but also keep in mind, CJ Stroud was a first year starter last year as well and we all know the numbers he put up.

There is only so much you can do in practice so sometimes, you just have to let them get baptized by fire during game time.  Those first 4 games are where it should have happened but did not.

I am hoping, expecially with how week our OOC is this season, we open it up.  This is a great collection of WR talent and we haven't even really scratched the surface of the receiving abilities of our RB's and TE.

 

stephenrjking

August 11th, 2022 at 4:55 PM ^

More passing? Yes please. Very excited about the skill position players we have coming back, and hearing that the OL is at least at last year’s level is crucial news.

Which brings us to QB. 

If it’s really 50-50, it seems reasonable to figure that JJ probably makes the pass for the lead by September.

But if JJ is being held back by sloppiness, not being sharp on reads, and such… that’s a worry. That’s something like what his weakness was last year. Of course, he also lost a lot of time in the offseason, so maybe he is taking a while but finally gets it later in camp; think Mitch McGary against Syracuse.

The pieces are in place for the best Michigan offense of my lifetime. We’ve had pieces in place for that before and not quite put it all together*, though, so we’ll see what happens. 

*standards are high here: the 2000 and 06/07 teams weren’t bad offenses, but the tools were there to be nationally elite and they were not. Michigan has the tools to field a nationally elite offense this year… but will they?

1974

August 11th, 2022 at 5:55 PM ^

It's not easy to compare offensive lines across many seasons, but I don't think the '06 and '07 teams were great in that area. (Regrettably, Jake Long couldn't play all five positions.) That limited the ceiling of the offense. I think the '22 O-line could end up being better than '06 or '07.

Joby

August 12th, 2022 at 11:43 AM ^

I certainly hear you on the 2000 and 2006/7 offenses not completely putting the pieces together fully given their talent. You'd have to go back to 1991 to find an offense that was highly talented AND put it all together: 

Desmond: Heisman, 23 TD, 19 conference receiving TDs (still a record)

Grbac: NCAA passing efficiency leader (177.9)

Big Ten rushing leader: 265 YPG

Big Ten total offense leader: 454 YPG

Big Ten scoring leader: 40 PPG

Every single starter or quasi-starter on O went to the NFL: Desmond, Grbac, Derrick Alexander, Tony McGee, Joe Co, Skrepenak, Matt Elliot (not Jumbo), Everitt, Rickey Powers and Wheatley. 

drjaws

August 11th, 2022 at 5:05 PM ^

as i said in a post a day or so ago, we're gonna beat AN ohio state in their toilet shaped arena and win the b1g.

this is going to be one of the first michigan teams in a long time that can beat most teams using offense alone. they have the talent to put up 50-60 points a game