A simple 12-team CFP reform idea
ESPN reports that the College Football Playoff board of managers has delayed a vote on recommending a 12-team playoff (not a surprise, given the realignment developments of the late summer).
The B1G-ACC-Pac 12 Alliance should insist on one simple change to the 12 team format: cap each conference at no more than two playoff teams. That will ensure that the SEC doesn't get 3 or even 4 spots because of their reputational advantage, and also ensures that the other "Power 4" conferences get a reasonable amount of representation.
Reportedly, the board of managers has other things to think about, like the role of the Rose Bowl, the interaction with the academic calendar, etc. But the main thing they should do is cap the number of SEC teams that can join the CFP, by capping conference representation more generally. What say you, Comrades?
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:23 PM ^
That cap is supposedly a non-negotiable poison pill for the SEC
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:08 PM ^
the fix to this is to not pay out more than 2 teams that participate.
I would say 3 is probably a good number. 6 conference champs, lets say 2 more BIG & SEC teams...probably ND/BYU and one more of ACC/Big 12/Pac12.
September 23rd, 2021 at 6:38 PM ^
I mean it’s a stupid rule in a world with conferences of different sizes, and for a 12 team playoff could also guarantee some real bad teams in the playoff since it pushes essentially two teams from every p5 conference in. A two per conference cap just guarantees ND a spot every year and also puts teams like North Carolina last or whoever is second in the new trash pac 12 in the playoff every year. It’s a bad proposal. 3 is a fine number but really a cap overall is stupid. Just guarantee conference champs and pick after that
September 23rd, 2021 at 7:26 PM ^
Two is the “cap”, not guaranteed number that gets in. I get your point, though. Coastal Carolina and/or a one loss UFC gets it. Maybe they get crushed… maybe they win in the first round and create a buzz. Kinda like a 15 MTU beating a 2. Like that would ever happen ?
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:25 PM ^
That will never happen. Hell, the SEC almost got three teams into the four team playoff a couple of times so there's no way in hell they'll agree to that. Nor will ESPN for that matter.
That proposal would be dead on arrival my bolshevik brother.
September 23rd, 2021 at 5:53 PM ^
I see some people commenting that a cap has been proposed and the SEC vetoed it. Has this been reported somewhere?
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^
Why not a 3 team max?
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:36 PM ^
I think a 4 team cap would be the most reasonable.
If there are 4 power conferences of equal merit (not true but w.e.), then each would get an average of just shy of 3 bids. Also, we sincerely want the best teams in the playoffs - so a conference could reasonably have 4 of the best 12 teams in a good year.
A 5 team limit should be the maximum. An expanded CFP should not be half (or god forbid majority) represented by one conference. I know that the current CFP has been half represented by SEC schools (2 out of 4), but that's more understandable with a smaller number of spots.
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^
5 spots would almost guarantee a 3 loss SEC team into the playoff.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:17 PM ^
As I said, a 4 team cap would be the most reasonable.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:11 PM ^
no way in hell. One conference (likely the SEC) could rake up almost HALF of the CFP payout in a given year? No way.
There's too much bias built in as well. LSU ranked 15 to start the year? Arkansas being lauded for beating a bad Texas team. Georgia being "great" for beating Clemson without an offensive touchdown. Iowa has been doing that for years. There's a bias to over-rank SEC schools which gives them an inside track to the playoffs.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:16 PM ^
Agree that 4 would be reasonable. If we just go by the top-12 teams ranked in the final regular season CFP poll, then these are the teams that would have made it from the SEC and B1G since 2014. I put Oklahoma in parenthesis for the SEC, just to see what it could possibly look like when they joined the conference, though I'd be surprised if they escape with less than two losses every year.
Anyway, the SEC only had 4 teams ranked in the top-12 in the final regular season CFP poll twice (2018 and 2019).
Meanwhile, the B1G has had 4 teams in the same final regular season CFP poll once (2016), but 3 teams on four other occasions. Michigan probably would've made an expanded playoff twice (2016 and 2018). I would take that any day!
The SEC averages 2.83 teams in the top-12 over this time period, whereas the B1G has an average of exactly 3 teams in the top-12. IMO, the B1G would do pretty well in an expanded playoff.
SEC
2014: Bama, Miss. St., Ole Miss
2015: Bama, Ole Miss, (Oklahoma)
2016: Bama, (Oklahoma),
2017: (Oklahoma), Georgia, Bama, Auburn
2018: Bama, (Oklahoma), Georgia, Florida, LSU
2019: LSU, (Oklahoma), Georgia, Florida, Auburn
B1G
2014: OSU, MSU
2015: MSU, Iowa, OSU
2016: OSU, PSU, Michigan, Wisconsin
2017: OSU, Wisconsin, PSU
2018: OSU, Michigan, PSU
2019: OSU, Wisconsin, PSU
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^
+1 Insightful
4 team cap makes sense. Are they really going to argue about 9-3 LSU or 9-3 Auburn?
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:30 PM ^
I say we should just have every season be a single elimination 128 team playoff.
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:50 PM ^
That is what the state of Missouri does for high school football. The states divided into 8 district tournaments and the champions play in the state tournament.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:27 PM ^
32 regional groups of four teams each start the year where groups are balanced based on preseason rankings. They play three games in their group and the top two teams in each group enter a 64 team playoff with home teams decided by their group points, and score differential.
10 total games max.
Losers enter a “cup” round robin tournament for a full season
Yes, of course this sounds familiar, and the championship game after two full overtimes is decided …
…edit: Having each team alternate and do 5 extra point attempts each. The team can go for one or two points. If they find themsleves down they can go for two to catch up by the end of five attempts. Or they can go for two from the start.
The group play would be fun. Every group game would be exciting and meaningful. Teams have to win to make the playoffs and/or need to run up the score for seedings and home field. One rivalry could be included per group since both can make the playoff. That could be Michigan OSU one year and Mich MSU or Mich ND or Mich PSU in other years.
Every playoff game would be meaningful and exciting. Win or die. The 5 extra point attempts, which was meant as a joke, could actually make each attemp riviting and the 2 vs 1 point(s) and probabilities would add intrigue.
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:43 PM ^
It's non-negotiable unless such a proposal passes. Then the SEC is faced with either giving in or opting out. I'd be fine either way. F them.
I'm really tired of arguments that encourage the SEC way of running CFB. IMO the rise/power of the SEC has coincided with everything wrong with CFB (absurd coaching salaries, greater corruption in recruiting, erosion of connection between university and athletics, total emphasis on money, Money, MONEY).
Personally, I hope the "alliance" has some teeth and helps restore some sanity and balance. Probably wishful thinking.
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:44 PM ^
I say it would be better to have an extra SEC team (or even two) than to have four non-power conference teams.
Did Notre Dame put you up to this? Short of guaranteeing them a spot, there's no system that would benefit them more than this idea.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:31 PM ^
I went back as far as 2016 and applied the two team cap and in 2017 and 2019 the rule allowed a Notre Dame team outside the top 12 to leapfrog a third team from the SEC or Big Ten. It’s basically a guaranteed spot for Nd if they can make it into the top 16 of the CFP ranking.
September 23rd, 2021 at 6:40 PM ^
Everyone talks about the SEC bias (which is so obviously there) and how the powers that be favor them, but no one program seems to be more powerful in the “bending everything to work into their favor” than Notre Dame
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:55 PM ^
A better reform would be to scrap playoffs and go back to the Bowl system.
September 23rd, 2021 at 7:02 PM ^
If you are talking pre-BCS, I have very little faith in the coaches and AP choosing the winner of the National Title. Although it would be fun for those who love to argue at season’s end.
To me, the only true way to have a fair playoff, would be to do something like a 32 team playoff. Maybe start it right after Thanksgiving, have a finals week and Christmas week break, ends in early-mid January sometime. Maybe go back to 11 game regular season so guys aren’t playing too many games. The number 33 team will for sure feel a little slighted, but not much more than your average bubble team in March Madness. We could still have all the bowls, just some of the better but not elite bowl games a la outback, citrus, Alamo, peach etc. could be grandfathered into the earlier playoff rounds, and of course the Rose, Sugar, Orange and Fiesta could rotate the Nat’l Champ game and final 4 games. Just my thought. Would be cool to see a battle tested 4 loss team make some noise. Imagine the hype of being the last team in, so many teams would play all out, would probably see some great upsets in early rounds. Would also make for very fun December Christmastime weekends. Oh, and just use the votes of the AP or Coaches poll as your field of 32.
If it has to be about conferences, I hope one day there will be the SEC, let’s call them the NFC with like 40ish teams, then the Alliance (AFC) with about 40 teams, have 4 divisions each play a round robin, seat the playoffs just like the NFL with best out of each division and have a 32 or 16 or so team playoff that way. Again, with bowl tie ins, and still bowl games for those teams who were good/decent who just missed in their respective division. Maybe the G5 schools could be like the European soccer leagues where they have to earn their right to stay in a conference, or even unseat a perennial bottom dweller like Rutgers or Kansas.
Also, force Notre Dame’s hand that they have to join a division or they can kiss their chances of a recognized national title goodbye.
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:56 PM ^
I would prefer 3. In 2006 Wisconsin would have been in a News Years 6 bowl game along with Michigan and Ohio State if it wasn't for the rule of 2. So, this could benefit the big ten as well.
September 23rd, 2021 at 9:54 PM ^
And as we saw
both Big 10 teams got shtoinked and didn’t belong
September 24th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
That's because the big ten had a 72 day break before the bowl games. Michigan and Ohio state played the weekend before Thanksgiving.
September 23rd, 2021 at 2:59 PM ^
What's the obsession with playoff schemes that don't break down into a simple bracket? 6, 12? Stop overcomplicating it. 8 or 16 work just fine.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:08 PM ^
I agree. An 8-team playoff with the P5 conference champions plus 3 at-large teams, with a conference cap of no more than two.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:44 PM ^
Works for me, Don.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:51 PM ^
This is kind of where I am except I would make it the 5 highest ranked conference champs. With Texas and Oklahoma leaving the Big 12, I think the Big 12 is now closer to the Group of 5 conferences than they will be to the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, and Pac-12. Making it the 5 highest ranked conference champs would increase access to the playoff for the smaller conferences. I am not a fan of any kind of hard cap for conferences though.
This proposal reportedly is a nonstarter for the SEC though. I think you could possibly tweak it to be the 4 highest ranked conference champs, but I think the Group of 5 conferences would balk at that.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:08 PM ^
I'd be more inclined to say cap at 3 than cap at 2. Right now, for example, the conference breakdown for the top 12 in the AP is 3 each for SEC (Bama, Georgia, and Florida) and B1G (Iowa, Penn State, OSU), 2 for the Big 12 (Oklahoma, A&M), and one each for the Pac-12 (Oregon), G6 (Cincy), ACC (Clemson), and Independents (ND). Capping at 2 would leave out #10 OSU and #11 Florida in favor of #15 BYU and #17 Coastal Carolina, passing over Ole Miss, Iowa State, and Arkansas.
Early season weirdness (and schadenfreude) aside, I'm not sure that's a trade I'd make. Purely selfishly, there are three B1G teams we'd have to leapfrog. But I agree that some variety of cap seems fair.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:10 PM ^
A&M is in the SEC. Soon, Oklahoma will be too. That makes it 5 for the SEC, 3 for the B1G and one each for the other conferences.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:17 PM ^
Oops - good catch. Clearly, I'm just too much of a traditionalist.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:57 PM ^
While I see your point, TU, I disagree with your conclusion. I'd much rather seem some scrappy upstarts like BYU and Coastal Carolina than a 3rd place finisher from a major conference.
IMO It's more fun, and makes the regular/conference season super important.
Sure, there would be some debates (should 2nd place team in the B1G east get in, or the west winner who loses in the B1G championship game?) - but those debates can be fun, too. And if you want a certain spot, win your conference.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:08 PM ^
No. This is dumb. A cap only serves to exclude deserving teams in favor of other less deserving teams. I would much rather watch 10-2 Florida or 9-3 LSU with losses to Bama and Georgia, and Oklahoma, instead of 10-3 USC that lost the PAC-12 title game but is the next best option.
I assume the Power 4 champs will have an automatic spot. The Group of 5 (6 if you include Big 12?) will probably get access too like they have now in the NY6 bowls. That leaves 7 spots for 2nd and third place teams, plus Notre Dame. If 2-4 teams from the same conference have CFP worthy resumes, they should get in.
The ACC and Big Ten have put 10+ teams in the NCAA basketball tournament in recent years and it’s not a big deal. It makes the tournament better to have the best teams in (after autobids of course). Same applies to a CFP tournament.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:17 PM ^
YOU would rather watch those games...but that hypothetical LSU team, we would've already seen lose to the best 3 teams in the conference. No need to watch that game again.
NCAA tourney is a bit of a different beast. Power 5 programs have an advantage to getting into the tourney, plus reg season and conference champs get auto bids. The dollars aren't as large either. If the conference gets lets say $10-15m per participating team...does anyone else wanna allow the SEC to get up to $60m while every other conference would get $15?
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:44 PM ^
Look at 2018. Do you think the purpose of the playoff is actually served if instead of Florida, LSU, and Penn State (all 9-3) the first round included Washington State (10-2), Texas (9-4) and Syracuse? Each of those last three were second place in their conference. And all had already lost to the best team in their conference.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:06 PM ^
Your 6 auto-bids are
Bama
Clemson
Oklahoma
Ohio State
Washington
UCF
At large
ND
Georgia
Michigan
Florida
Penn State
Washington St
Only one of those teams actually doesn't get in.
LSU lost a game 74-72 for that 3rd loss. They can sit this one out.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:11 PM ^
I'm in the camp that would rather see broader representation. It's more fun.
The comparison to NCAA hoops tournament is a good one. That tournament is fun because all the little guys have a shot. Giant killers are what makes March Madness mad.
Sam, to answer your question - I would much rather have seen WSU, TX and Syracuse than Florida, LSU and PSU - all of whom lost 3 conference games.
I'm not so sure Texas would've made it anyway - there's no guarantee 2 teams per P5 conference would get in.
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:08 PM ^
CF, it’s not a bad idea. But you are, of course, well aware of the realities of politics in this and other circumstances:
The best playoff reform proposal is the one you can get the votes to pass.
Would I rather the SEC be capped? Yes. Will they agree to it? Not likely.
Ultimately, get more feet in the door with a 12-teamer and then there might be a more balanced landscape that can begin to suppress SEC participation the natural way: producing better teams in other conferences.
September 23rd, 2021 at 5:50 PM ^
I'm persuaded by the comments that a 3-team cap makes more sense. That specifically helps Michigan in the competitive B1G East, presuming that the 2nd B1G team will likely be the West division champion...but it may also be true that it doesn't matter, given how the CFP top 12 has shaken out in recent years...
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:14 PM ^
Username checks out
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:30 PM ^
Comrades?
Is the WLA having a resurgence?
September 23rd, 2021 at 3:48 PM ^
Caps are inherently dumb.
Better way to accomplish the same goal is to enlarge the number of automatic berths. For the Power 4 (I'm consigning the Big 12 to the ash heap of history) allow that all division winners get an automatic berth. That's eight spots. Guarantee the Group of six (includes the Big 12) one spot. That takes up 9/12 openings.
The other three at large can go to whomever.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:04 PM ^
These semi-frequent CFP proposals are usually just tedious and self-indulgent but this one is actually bad too.
September 23rd, 2021 at 4:50 PM ^
Bama still allowed in? Then it doesn't really matter.
September 23rd, 2021 at 6:25 PM ^
I'd say autobids for the Power 5 conferences, autobid for the highest ranked small conference team, and then take the highest ranked teams left.
Conference champions must get the 4 first round byes.
September 23rd, 2021 at 6:45 PM ^
If the rose bowl isn’t careful they are going to negotiate themselves right out of relevance. Doesn’t matter if your game is at the same time every year if you are a 3rd place big ten pac 12 matchup. That Iowa utah game is only going to draw so many eyeballs
September 23rd, 2021 at 9:41 PM ^
-1
”What say you”
I hate that
September 23rd, 2021 at 10:03 PM ^
I agree.
"What say you?" bugs me waaayyy more than being called "comrade" by a commie.
September 24th, 2021 at 8:45 AM ^
Understandable that newbies like yourself wouldn't get the reference:
When you see spread, think red.
“I call that Communist football,” Szabo said. “I’m so tired of it. Good, red-blooded Americans snap the ball, hand it to the guy and have a normal run game or pass game.”
Szabo and the rest of the Michigan defense will finally get a break from the spread offense. Beginning Saturday at Michigan State, they will face more traditional offenses in the final three weeks of the regular season.