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|2 min 58 sec ago||Two things struck me||
1. That guy looks straight out of central casting for "offensive line coach".
2. "So to be around the person whose mind really wants to put the “college” back in college football and the “student” back in student-athlete, it’s been outstanding to be there." - This, all day.
|51 min 46 sec ago||If Underwood = Miller||
then Illinois wins in a landslide, because Crean > Groce.
With Groce, Illinois went with the hot MAC guy and it didn't pan out.
This time, they grabbed another hot name with one relatively successful year at Okie State, and 3 good years at a lower-level school (Southland conference isn't mid-major IMO). He's hardly a proven commodity.
OSU sucked the year before he came, but they made the NCAA's the three previous years - last year didn't represent a magical transformation.
Some folks questioned Beilein's bona fides when he was hired here (spent most of his career at lower levels, only big school experience was WVU, etc.). Underwood has exactly one year at a big school, and a few years at Stephen F. Austin. Prior to that, he was an assistant.
That said, he could be fantastic. OSU was fun to watch, and he did work under some pretty good coaches.
Miller is somewhat more a known quantity IMO. Dayton is firmly mid-major, and he's had a very successful 6 year run there. He also assisted under some good coaches (including his brother).
Indiana probably has a better foundation for success (historically great program, rabid fan base, etc.) but that comes with crazy expectations and little patience.
IMO Archie has proven he can coach, while Underwood is less certain. As I said at the top, if they're equals, then Illinois gains more due to lower baseline.
As for which guy will be more successful overall, it probably comes down to recruiting chops. If that's the case, there's really no way to tell; it will play out in time. Underwood probably has more time to prove himself, but Indiana probably has a higher ceiling.
|17 hours 13 min ago||So did Hirsch||
Elroy "Crazylegs" Hirsch also played at Michigan. Amazing that a former M football player voted for OSU. Yes, he also played for Wisconsin, but still. Wow.
|19 hours 18 min ago||yeah Howler||
I think the B1G in general fares well because as a conference we've always cared about both sports. Overall, we have 7 of the top 25 in football, and 8 in hoops.
Outside of Kentucky, the SEC really doesn't care about basketball. They have 8 of the top 25 in football, but only UK in hoops. It's amazing they got 3 teams in the Final 8 - they hadn't even had 2 in the sweet 16 in forever.
At the same time, the ACC traditionally doesn't care much about football, though they did manage to have 4 of the top 25 (FSU, YTM, Clemson and Pitt). They have 6 hoops teams on the list - 4 in the top 10.
Unless I missed something, the BIg 12 has only 2 for football and 1 in hoops. Of course, they have fewer schools than the other big conferences.
It's a bit surprising more PAC teams don't appear on the list (3 football, 2 basketball) - maybe east coast bias in rankings?
|19 hours 54 min ago||For Kicks||
I looked at the same list for football, and compared the two:
There are 7 schools that made the top 25 in both football and hoops. If you add the overall rankings for football and hoops, here's how they rank in terms of long-term success at both sports.
Football Rank/Basketball Rank/Combined Rank
So, we're tied for second overall.
AP polling isn't a perfect metric, but I think it does a pretty good job of reflecting long-term athletic excellence. The only surprise to me is that MSU is top 20 in both.
FWIW, the drop-off in basketball is much faster and steeper than football. Our #7 in football is much closer to the top than #7 in basketball. Five Blue Bloods truly do rule college basketball.
Note: I did this comparison pretty quickly; may have missed something.
|1 day 10 hours ago||I'll give it a shot, MM||
Caveat - I won't defend JB's policies regarding when and under what circumstances he offers guys - I'm not close enough to the program or his recruiting methods to comment.
I will speak to your comment "should have our pick of the litter every year". I just don't think that's true, for a number of reasons:
1. We're not a "blue blood" basketball school. Like football, "blue blood" programs have built-in recruiting advantages.
Duke, NC, KY, UCLA, KS - and to a lesser extent AZ, Indiana, Louisville, UConn, Syracuse, Villanova.
Michigan is a "blue-blood" football school. The level of emphasis and support for Michigan basketball just isn't that high; furthermore, there's not a single school that's "blue-blood" in both football and basketball.
Combined, the basketball-first schools listed above have won 28 of 37 NC's since 1980. NO football-first school has won since 2007.
Since '80, only 4 schools have won NCAA championships that aren't hoops-first (Floridax2, MSU, Arkansas, and us).
My point is that hoops "blue bloods" have natural recruiting advantages - rabid fan and school support, great game/arena atmosphere, history of success, etc.
2. Recruiting "flexibility" - Most (not all, but most) of those schools are either blatantly cheating or look the other way while boosters do the cheating for them. Michigan dabbled in the latter back in the Frieder/Fisher days, and we're not going there again IMO.
3. Academic "flexibility" - Some of the top recruiting schools dont care if their athletes are students (see: NC); most have very loose admissions requirements. Further, because many top recruits are one-and-done, there isn't even a pretense of encouraging academic achievement. That doesn't wash at Michigan.
4. Competition - Like it or not, we have a formidable hoops competitor nearby. Izzo has built a strong program and reputation. Unlike football, where our reputation, history and fanbase usually enable us to dominate in-state recruiting, the challenge is greater in basketball.
Fortunately, Beilein has also had success, so high school kids today have seen both schools succeed.
5. System - While JB's system works, it may not be to every kid's liking. It's complex, takes time to learn, and doesn't allow for too much freelancing. It doesn't seem like a great system for a one-and-done kid. JB doesn't appear to desire those kids much, either, and fitting his system seems to be a priority.
It's reasonable to wish that Beilein could/would bring in more highly-rated guys; Michigan is a great, renowned, wealthy athletic powerhouse.
I believe it's also fair to say coach Beilein has some recruiting challenges, and that other coaches/schools have it easier than Beilein/Michigan. We don't have, and shouldn't expect to have, the "pick of the litter".
|1 day 22 hours ago||very true BlueinOK||
Fortunately, JB has a fantastic track record of grooming/developing guards.
|1 day 22 hours ago||Wilson||
I think it's less a matter of desire and more strength, aggressiveness and positioning/technique.
He got much stronger this year, but those long arms are still pretty skinny, and his lower body doesn't seem to provide much resistance against a big banger.
Maybe "aggression" is a better word than "desire". As we all remember (sigh), DJ doesn't always attack the basket with ferocity. A little more aggression on both ends will go a long way.
He's certainly got the athleticism, and he's such a smooth athlete.
|1 day 22 hours ago||I agree w The Man||
Especially on D, Michigan often uses bigs to block out, allowing smaller guys to grab the boards.
Walton was great in that role, and X is simply too short. We need a guy who really attacks the ball on the boards.
|1 day 22 hours ago||No matter what||
Michigan will look and play very differently next year.
This year's team was very unusual in that all of our heavy-usage guys could shoot from 3.
It doesn't appear that X, Matthews or Teske are three point threats, so pick-and-roll, transition, and attacking the rim will be more important next year.
It will be interesting to see how coach B adjusts the offense, and fun to watch.
|1 day 22 hours ago||True jm||
but the downside of a short bench, of course, is the impact of injury.
Michigan was really fortunate this year that our top 6 stayed pretty healthy all year. The last couple of years we weren't as fortunate, and it showed in our results.
It seems like next year we will be deeper, even if the rotation remains pretty tight. If someone gets injured, someone else should be able to step up without too much loss in production.
That doesn't mean JB won't have to juggle responsibilities and combinations, however. We have some intriguing prospects with very different skill sets.
Don't give up on Teske yet - both Wagner and Wilson looked really raw last year. Hopefully Teske will show some real improvement.
|1 day 23 hours ago||The topic||
of the OP and my comment is freshman production. The word "washout" was poorly chosen.
Based on the chart, ~1/3 of the 5* receivers (23/71) had 5 or fewer catches - zero or tiny production.
Almost 1/2 had fewer than 15 catches - relatively minimal contribution.
Just over half had more than 15 catches (and sometimes other production from carries or KR)
Heck, most of my post referred to my optimism that DPJ will end up on the productive side of the ledger.
My point is simply that while we all hope DPJ becomes a freshman phenom, it's a good idea to show some patience.
|2 days 39 min ago||Interesting||
Thanks for crunching the numbers.
Main takeaway I get is that based on past 5*, it's pretty much as likely we'll get nothing at all from DPJ next year as it is he'll become a frosh AA. Patience.
That said, IMO it's more likely he'll more resemble the successful guys than the washouts:
- He seems like a great kid and excellent student, so off-field washout is unlikely.
- Harbaugh and our coaching staff should find ways to use him, even if he's not fully ready to take a starring role.
- Losing our top receivers to graduation presents opportunity, but we have plenty of young guys competing for snaps/catches.
One other thing to note: Almost all the Frosh AA's went on to become big-time NFL stars. Just shows there are a rare few guys who are just destined for greatness. Let's hope DPJ is one of them!
|5 days 13 hours ago||Agree freejs||
When I saw a replay, it looks like Florida's guard did a good job (intentionally or not) of getting the two Wisky guys kind of tangled up too - then he shot past them both.
If Trice had positioned himself properly, he could at least have stayed between the shooter and the hoop.
What a wild game!
|5 days 13 hours ago||It was||
How did that happen? It looked like the Wisky dude lost his grip or something - or maybe he just didn't know Barry was behind him. Throw that thing down!
|5 days 13 hours ago||Craziest game of tournament||
Wisconsin was incredibly lucky to get to overtime, then got incredibly unlucky at the end.
In regulation, Florrida turned the ball over with a 3 point lead, enabling the 3 (why didn't they foul?).
In OT, somehow the Wisky guy got blocked when he had a wide-open dunk, and for some reason Wisconsin had a forward (Hayes?) on Florida's pg at the end.
Blew right by him and hit a prayer at the buzzer.
I hate to see 3 SEC teams left and the B1G eliminated.
|5 days 13 hours ago||2 buzzer beaters||
Wisky hit one to send it to OT.
Wow, that was incredible. Both last second shots were off-balance prayers, too.
|5 days 19 hours ago||Thank you||
Or is it Iba? Rupp?
|5 days 23 hours ago||Irvin finished his career||
playing at an extremely high level. Very efficient scoring, tough, tough defense and outstanding leadership.
It also felt like he chose absolutely critical moments to step up, especially in the last few games. He was brilliant at the end last night.
No caveats - Irvin was simply outstanding during Michigan's stellar and exciting run.
|5 days 23 hours ago||Exactly J||
Hustle and energy? A reputedly poor defensive team very effectively controlled Oregon's most effective weapon - their transition game. That takes hustle and energy.
Not only that, but total rebounds in the game were 36-31. That's hardly domination. Yes, they failed to get (defensive) boards on two key moments at the end, but that has nothing to do with Michigan's overall strategy.
How hard is it to understand that you win basketball games by scoring more points? Having 6 guys who can shoot is a tremendous asset. Beilein would be a terrible coach if he didn't take advantage of the team's greatest strength.
The best shots in basketball are layups and three pointers. Michigan is one of the most efficient in the country because they take advantage of that (and typically protect the ball very well).
I think maybe some people don't watch much basketball. The modern game features smaller guys who can shoot, especially from three.
|5 days 23 hours ago||Agree, funky||
The good news is he's progressed so dramatically.
He'll continue to get stronger and more explosive. Hopefully that translates into more aggressive finishing.
His FT shooting is a wonderful asset.
|5 days 23 hours ago||Disagree on first and flat wrong on second jp||
The refs were calling things very tight in the first half, and Oregon is good, aggressive and well-coached enough to take it to a guy in foul trouble. If Wilson got a third foul in the first half, it would have been disastrous for Michigan.
As things played out, it was basically an even game at half, and Wilson was fresh and unencumbered with major foul trouble.
Your second point is just wrong. As noted earlier, Oregon ended the game with 2 fouls to give! Oregon screwed up by even allowing Michigan to get a shot off.
Another poster mentioned that Oregon's coach tried to get his guys to foul, and they didn't pay attention. He didn't have any timeouts left.
If Michigan called timeout, of course the first thing Altman would have emphasized to his guys is FOUL.
We were fortunate to get a great look from our best player. Sadly, it didn't go in.
End-game coaching: Beilein > Altman.
|6 days 1 hour ago||Walton's shot||
I think Oregon blundered horribly to even let Walton have a look. They had 2 fouls to give with under 10 seconds in the game.
At the very least, they should have forced 2 more inbounds plays. If they focus on Walton, they force someone else to hoist up a last shot, with very little time to create space.
Look at the end of the Gonzaga game - WVU didn't even get a shot off in the last 10 seconds.
Walton got a GREAT look.
In the postgame, even an Oregon player said "We were fortunate Walton didn't make that last shot".
|6 days 13 hours ago||Good point enlightened||
X outscored AZ 9-0 to end the game - woof.
|6 days 13 hours ago||That's probably true, Maize in Cincy||
but I think we would have beaten either of them the way we played against OSU and Louisville.
It's unfortunate that we didn't play our best game tonight, but OTOH we made it to this point by playing fantastic basketball.
|6 days 13 hours ago||You may be right Jonesy||
Sometimes players don't listen to their coaches, especially in stressful moments. They are kids, after all.
That said "but they had no timeouts" - not an ideal situation to be in at the end of a game.
|6 days 16 hours ago||How I wish, blue90||
I wish I would forget the heartbreakers, but unfortunately I probably remember them more than the wins.
Webber's TO, Burke's clean block against L'ville, and sadly, tonight's shot by Walton that just wouldn't go in...don't even want to think about the phantom first down.
That said, while I won't forget tonight's gut-wrenching loss, I will also remember the great run and all the fun this team gave us.
The drama, win or lose, is what makes college sports so much fun!
|6 days 16 hours ago||For those who say||
Altman outcoached Beilein, keep Ace's words in mind:
"After Dylan Ennis missed another free throw with 15 seconds to play, Oregon surprisingly chose to give only one of their three remaining fouls to give, allowing Walton to get that final look."
Walton should never have had time to get such a good look.
If I remember correctly, there were under 10 seconds left when they committed their foul. If Oregon continues to foul, they probably run out the clock, or at very least force a rushed prayer.
That was a terrible mistake, at the most important moment of the game.
Every time I see the replay of Walton's shot, I think he's gonna hit it. Damn.
|6 days 16 hours ago||Autobench criticism simply unwarranted||
A team with 6 real contributors cannot afford to be in big foul trouble at the end of games.
Two times during this run, Beilein took a calculated risk and put someone back in with 2 in the first half - tonight with MAAR.
The refs were calling things tight, especially in the fist half. We needed all hands in the second.
If DJ had gotten a third foul in the first half, we might have gotten crushed.
The game was a toss-up; we lost the flip.
|6 days 17 hours ago||I agree RobM||
Mo may have been hurt. Could definitely have used him on the boards.