What's Past Is Prologue: The QB Guru
Long time lurker, first time poster, so, please, not in the face. I really do apologize in advance if this is lame. But like many, I found this season deflating, despite my acceptance of the preseason conventional wisdom, (debated here of late; for my part, count me in the camp that expected a floor of 8 wins and a ceiling of maybe 10), that this year would not be "The Year".
Count me also in the camp that buys the narrative that lack of signature wins over quality opponents/rivals has made an 8-5 season feel emotionally closer to a 5-8 season.
So, despite landing on the roughly expected 8-win number, in the days following the Outback Bowl, I doubted something I didn't think possible: the Inevitable Glorious Future we were sure to have under Jim Harbaugh. While the larger idea that he was the best possible coach for this program remained intact, my belief in what could actually be *achieved* was shaken.
Some of the situational coaching and uninspired playcalling in the bowl played a role certainly, but (hot take time!), it was our profound QB struggles in Year Three that most undermined. As a math expression, (if that's even the proper term), the perfect storm of my negativity might look something like this:
Losses To Rivals : Disappointment In Michigan Football Generally : : Serious QB Struggles : Doubts About Harbaugh Specifically
(And forgive me if that's wrong, MGoActualMathPeople.)
And then I looked inward a bit and remembered what life under RichRod and Hoke was really like, and how this program has been fundamentally transformed already in terms of not being a huge joke (or at least a much less funny one), and how spoiled and entitled I've sort of been as a fan recently, (even if traumatically abused historically), and just how goddamn loud and annoying our rivals' taunts can be. I also remembered a video I watched a few years ago that made me feel giddy about the then-prospect of a Harbaugh Era and the critical attention that would be paid to quarterback development should it materialize.
TL;DR? Watch this (surprisingly underviewed) video and feel better--all over again--about the future of this program; how QB depth chart decisions have been/will be made, how recruiting is approached and what kind of guys he's going after, what will be expected of this team and the QB position in specific, and just the total football joy of football that beats in Coach Harbaugh's football heart. Football!
SPOILERS: Jim Harbaugh breaks shit and laughs! Jim Harbaugh puts knuckles in assholes (and I don't just mean Jim Kelly!) Jim Harbaugh with feathered '90s hair and khakis but NO horn-rimmed-bad-luck-Woody-Hayes-cursed-hipster-f*ck glasses! Living in the past but a more recent past! Football!
And after all this, if this f*cking link doesn't work, I will slink away in abject shame and lurk forevermore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7-9kQJ1_sI
January 11th, 2018 at 12:49 AM ^
Word is he may not have worked hard over the summer and in summer camp O'Korn knew the playbook better, did better in practice and showed more leadership. However, O'Korn could never play consistently well in a game setting. Peters may have been in the dog house a bit heading into the season. I think Peters has stepped it up a bit but did not have a good showing in the bowl game.
January 11th, 2018 at 1:21 AM ^
Not to over-engage on my own post, (if that's a faux pas; I'm aware of the "don't upvote your own shit"/"get high on your own supply" convention), but I have to share your opinion. I agreed with Stringer at first: "why wasn't B-Pete better after a month of preparation as opposed to inexplicably worse?" And it IS concerning. Fact. I even thought JH might be coaching these guys to play too tight. There were times I got the sense Peters was playing nervous, or just wasn't having fun out there.
But then I re-watched that video, and was like, nah, Harbaugh gets the play-loose-have-fun thing. But he's also looking for "whatever it takes, I must win"--which is to say, I think, workers who put themselves in position to succeed, in practice and at gametime; guys who can be coached, who respond to criticism, who take it upon themselves to grow and to win every down as "the challenged player". We call them kids, and that's fair, but...they're not actually children. Job #1 in the Harbaugh philosophy is clear: protect the football. Peters threw 2 INTs in the bowl game. And it may sound simplistic, but Jim Harbaugh didn't throw those.
So I've revised my thinking to: maybe that was just the real Peters we saw in the bowl game and that explains why he was #3 in an already sub-par QB corps all season, where before my thought was: how can he not see that Peters is better than O'Korn? Maybe he just wasn't, no matter how bad O'Korn looked at turns. Maybe the most likely scenario is that Jim Harbaugh knows something about QBs, and that Peters just wasn't ready for primetime, despite best efforts by the staff. It's super cliché, but maybe it was just the ol' "Jimmys and the Joes" thing, and some guys just don't work out.
January 11th, 2018 at 9:34 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 10:18 AM ^
I agree with your observation, Mo Better Blues. That was a huge factor for all our quarterbacks.
Alll three of our quarterbacks played tentatively this year. It seemed like they were playing scared.
I think it's because Pep Hamilton isn't any good at building confidence in a quarterback. That's a huge factor in winning. It might not be so critical in the NFL.
Building confidence is especially true for a young college quarterback. That part of the coaching was lacking this year.
Remember Jake Ruddock was Harbaugh's personal project, and that went pretty damn well. Big difference this year.
January 11th, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
maybe that is a big reason Wilton transferred. I just recall how odd it was for Wilton to say before the season started that he had a hard time "getting to know" Pep and that Pep was "all business". I think some coaches are just better suited for the NFL where they don't have to put up with the college recruiting thing and then becoming a surrogate father to the kids for 4 years. Jedd and Wilton really hit it off, but that never seemed to happen with Pep and Wilton. And then Pep in an interview refering to Peters as "Forest" (i.e. Gump) ... a really derogatory public comment. Only O'Korn lauded Pep and he ended up being the starter. Just a strange QB room this year. And then Brown chipping in that DM was the "real deal" and the bomb at QB - like a shot at the offense that they have the wrong guy. The media really rolled with that - saying DM is the better option and Peters will never see the field. Strange.
Maybe JH's demeanor change was caused by the stress from a dysfunctional coaching mix and disagreements ? Like maybe Pep was pumping up O'Korn but JH wanted to go with Wilton. Then Pep feels like he has no real say and doesn't engage very well with the program. Shit like that happens all the time when high-level egos are involved.
January 11th, 2018 at 1:27 AM ^
Honestly, I think Harbaugh probably started to realize that Peters isn't really that good.
Think about it. Harbaugh has no allegiance to Speight. Speight was a Hoke recruit and wasn't really highly regarded.
Harbaugh started him two years in a row.
Speight might not be the most physically gifted QB, but I think he has the head for the position. A very underrated aspect of him was his intelligence and grasp of the playbook.
I just think people are hoping for something with Peters that really isn't there. Everything he does looks to be in slow motion and the coaches had to dumb down the playbook a ridiculous amount for him.
I just remember hearing interviews pre-game and post game with Rudock and Speight. I was amazed at how well spoken and intelligent these guys sound.
Then I hear Peters. He sounds different and then you combine that with the need to dumb down the playbook + a month of being the man and running his mouth about how it is his position and him saying Michigan could bring in 50 QBs + his pathetic display in the bowl game it just seems like he doesn't really have the head for the position.
Let's not even start with the toughness factor that he lacks.
Supposedly his dad has a sign in his house - Don't come in here if you are a sissy or something (dead serious). Besides the pure stupidity of someone displaying that in their home, he then slides 1-2 yards short of a first down to lose the bowl game.
I really don't think Peters is that good. He talks a big game, but doesn't have any.
People have spent so much time defending him. He didn't play earlier because he wasn't any good.
January 11th, 2018 at 3:53 AM ^
He isnt Andrew Luck but he is still a RS freshman
January 11th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
Peters hit some throws, but really didn't leave me thinking at any point "Dang this guys going to be good". I remember Karan Higdon as a true freshman making a few nasty cuts and we were all like "ok this guys gonna be good". I hope I'm wrong, but after watching Peters play a significant chunk of the season, I lean toward him getting passed by Shea and DCaff this fall and never starting for M again.
January 11th, 2018 at 6:27 AM ^
Yes... this exactly. I feel the exact same way.
One of the big red flags to me was the Minnesota game. Peters needed the reps in that game and the coaches only threw the ball 13 times the entire game?
Peters has made some really nice throws in every game hes played, so logically I dont want to give up on him just yet. But like you, when I listen to him talk after the game, it just feels like this isnt our guy.
Im praying that Patterson is eligible for 2018. If not then im confident Mccaffrey will have put on 20 lbs of muscle and will be the starter.
January 11th, 2018 at 8:31 AM ^
The pass protection, while bad all year, was at it's worst during the Minnesota game. After our first scoring drive, Peters had no time to set up any kind of throws the rest of the game.
I agree that Peters needed the reps in this game but what else were the coaches supposed to do? You're screwed if your pass blocking is nonexistent.
January 11th, 2018 at 9:11 AM ^
Right, he was getting annhilated in roughly 2 seconds on each of his sacks. Him not throwing was more to keep him alive.
January 11th, 2018 at 7:38 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 8:53 AM ^
Quarterback scouting has always been a gamble even for the best coaches. You can look at schools like USC, Florida, florida state, alabama, notre dame, texas over the years and theres been many highly rated quarterbacks who turned into nothing once they got on campus.
It happens, and it sucks for us but we may have just got very unlucky with Peters.
January 11th, 2018 at 3:45 PM ^
Jimbo Fisher also a good QB scout/developer, and his team was 7-6 with bad QB play after their QB1 went down.
January 11th, 2018 at 8:38 AM ^
I'd agree with you except I saw that Wisconsin game. In that game, against a really good defense, the running backs able to do absolutely nothing and offensive line on vacation, Peters actually looked like he was starting to get it. He hit a couple of deep balls. He showed good pocket awareness. He hit DPJ for a touchdown (that was of course called back because officials are terrible) with a nice throw.
That's why his South Carolina game was so perplexing. It seemed like he just went backwards.
January 11th, 2018 at 9:51 AM ^
and people always saying the playbook was dumbed down, it wasn't. Peters is a RS Freshman with only a few games experience. What he needs to learn is playing more up to the speed of the game. His progressions are too slow right now and he needs to work at moving through those quicker, which is part of both pre-snap and post snap reads.
Also to question his toughness is ridiculous. That kid stood in the pocket and took some huge hits and bounced up and kept playing. Hell was knocked unconscious for 30-40 seconds against Wisconsin and still did a good job standing in the pocket in the bowl game.
People see a Freshman QB on another team do well and immediately wonder why ours isn't playing at that level. They are two different people. Maybe one had better coaching in HS and so his learning curve wasn't as big. Maybe they are just a better QB. It doesn't mean that Peters doesn't have it, he's still very young. Let's see how he and McCaffery develop before we start throwing them out as not being good QB's.
January 11th, 2018 at 12:21 PM ^
Agreed on your observations of Peters' getting right back up on his feet after being hit - with the exception of the dirty Badger who concussed him. Peters has only played in a few games, in front of pass protection that is let's say... a work in progress. If he isn't the starter in the fall then we have an excellent backup, with actual game experience this time.
The time Peters spent in concussion protocol and missing practices led me to assume he would regress to some degree in the bowl game. Luckily, he doesn't seem to be suffering any after-effects.
I tend to assume that Michigan QBs are suffering more than other teams from injuries, but now I'm questioning the assumption. Maybe it's QBs in general, including the NFL; something in how the position responsibilities/executions are evolving?
January 11th, 2018 at 5:14 PM ^
Wow. I'd never actually listened to Brandon Peters in an interview before I read your comment. Well, now I have and...yeaaaah. That's probably not the guy for hyper-intense, hyper-competitive, Enthusiasm Unknown To Mankind Jim Harbaugh, (assuming that species still exists in nature, which I have to think it does).
Somebody remarked they wished someone would stop giving our coach Xanax, which I agreed with. In fact, one of the first things I said in Harbaugh Year One was, "finally, someone who gets as animated and pissed off about these goddamn games as I do!" What happened to that guy? I'm starting to think Jim Harbaugh's deer-in-the-headlights look has been a kind of subliminal honesty reflecting an internal doubt that, as a QB-centric head coach, he has no viable QBs.
One had limited athleticism and got the hell beat out of him with a broken collar bone, one guy was a turnover-happy transfer who was never going to have the time to become a "Harbaugh guy", and one guy just isn't someone you'd follow into battle--not yet at least. He's still young, but the interviews, while hardly dispositive, aren't confidence inspiring
#prayforshea
January 11th, 2018 at 8:52 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 9:19 AM ^
Hard to say he regressed. Not much OL protection the beginning of this year. I don't think many of us appreciate how much better we would have been with Wilton as the season progressed and the OL improved. Speight>>>>> O'korn or Peters.
If Patterson doesn't get his waiver, is there anyway to go crawling to Speight, asking him to reconsider his transfer???
January 11th, 2018 at 9:26 AM ^
I completely agree with you. With that said, I do get the feeling that the coaching staff, including Harbaugh, just aren't as impressed with Peters as much as they had hoped they would be. It has never been said explicitly, that is just the feeling I get when comments are made regarding him. That is in direct comparison to McCaffrey who the coaches seem to talk much more highly of even if it is just the demeanor in which they reference the player. I truly think next year will be a McCaffrey vs Patterson competition.
January 11th, 2018 at 12:42 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 1:54 AM ^
Couldn't be happier to have coach Harbaugh. Yes, we are all frustrated with this year, probably no one more than Jim, but he should know there's nobody else we'd rather have at the helm in A2.
January 11th, 2018 at 1:58 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 5:57 AM ^
Brandon Peters might simply not be that good. Look at all the highly rated quarterbacks over the years at schools like Notre Dame, Florida state, USC, Alabama, Texas etc etc that never panned out and had to transfer.
Jim Harbaugh is human and he may have scouted this one wrong and thats ok because it happens. If you look at all the flashes of brilliance all the other young Harbaugh recruits are showing it gives me faith we will get this quarterback and offensive line problem sorted out.
January 11th, 2018 at 2:35 PM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 6:49 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 8:37 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^
the video just made me realize i would insist on being a shotgun qb
January 11th, 2018 at 9:45 AM ^
QB1 Speight: 3-0. QB2 Peters: 2-1. QB3 O'Korn: 1-3. Combined start /finish: 2-1.
January 11th, 2018 at 9:46 AM ^
I agree with you and the other posters that the 2016 Wolverines were inexplicably weak at all the things Harbaugh teams are supposed to do well.
First and foremost, the QB play. Every single QB was worse than in prior seasons, or in Peters' case, well behind schedule even for a RS freshmen. The two best QB performances were the back-up coming in when the starter got hurt or benched, and many of the worst performances were from guys who had been the named starter the whole week (or more) and were getting all of the first team reps in practice. Not to put too fine a point on it, but focused attention from the coaching staff seemed inversely related to QB performance.
Second, O-line play. This has been a sore spot for a number of years, especially the running game, and we thought we'd get the Stanfordized offense. Well after this season, I think we can conclude that giving half of the O-line position coaching duties to a power run specialist, and the other half to a zone run specialist, with young players, leads to predictable run plays poorly executed. It's effect on pass protection does bear recollection or contemplation.
Third, offensive game planning. We expected old school power football with a lot of creative wrinkles that punished defenses for playing to our tendencies. This season, our young team couldn't execute it. I think the consensus is the two worst offensive game plans of the year were against MSU and SC; games preceded by a bye week or Bowl prep period. Again, extra coaching attention seemed to be counter productive.
Finally, swagger. We expected Harbaugh's celebrity coaching style would lead to buzz and attention, which the team would then back up with impressive wins on the field, and the virtuous cycle would repeat itself. Instead, it fed into a cycle of Michigan painting a bulls eye on its back. Let's face it, we HATE Ohio State, but not everyone else does. They'd love to beat the Buckeyes, but that has been such a remote possibility in recent years, that teams don't invest all their emotions in preparing for an upset. Michigan, on the other hand, is a historically successful, really obnoxious team that lately hasn't been all that. We were already everyone's Super Bowl as we floundered through the RichRod and Hoke years because we were beatable. Harbaugh's prominence amped up the stakes, but compared to OSU we are still beatable, and compared to PSU, Wisconsin or MSU, beating us is so much more satisfying. (Nebraska may be heading down our path by hiring Scott Frost after an extended period of mediocrity, but I digress...) Problem is that being the dreaded 1-5 against our main rivals (3-6 if you include PSU) feeds right into their narrative of Michigan and Harbaugh being all hype, no performance. Hey, I don't want Harbaugh to ever change, but let's face that we will continue to be everyone's Super Bowl until such time as we beat them with Ohio State's soul-crushing consistency that it's no longer attractive to get up for that game. (The conversations among ourselves about whether we would rather beat Sparty of the Buckeyes show that OSU is on the cusp of doing to us what they've done to the rest of the B1G, but I digress again...)
I still think that if anyone can fix Michigan, it's Jim Harbaugh. However, I am beginning to realize that just maybe no one can fix what ails us, and we are headed to the same place Pitt went when they hired Foge Fazio to be their head coach.
BTW, I love the Mo Better Blues account name. I think Gary Moeller is underrated as a coach.
January 11th, 2018 at 11:51 AM ^
Agree with the overwhelming majority of what you said. Had to add something since you brought up Mo -- he's my favorite (and most tragic) 'What If' scenario in both college and pro ball, (people forget he coached the Lions to .500 as an interim coach during their darkest days--and that's saying something). Moeller is my "What if JFK didn't get shot?" alternative history exercise--a pivotal moment in the annals of Wolverine football. There was a reason Bo made him his successor.
He, too, suffered several 8-4 seasons, but-but-but! -- I remember those seasons rather fondly as *successes* rather than disappointments, (as they probably were, at least relative to eye-popping team talent; some of his guys would go on to win a national title with Lloyd in '97), because of a couple factors (beyond those being my formative Michigan fan years), factors that Harbaugh has had go the other way, at least early on:
1.) impressive wins over OSU and MSU (I'd have to re-examine Mo's actual record vs. Sparty, but OSU is a certainty.) I remember regularly suffering through the season, just waiting to get our hands on OSU and spoil their otherwise superlative seasons, and,
2.) impressive wins in bowl games -- Rose, Gator, Holiday, and Hall of Fame Bowls.
My hope for Moeller was that he would modernize and liberalize our conservative and often struggling offense, which he did to a degree, (a 4th and 1 *pass* to Desmond, anyone? With a lead? That was the play that got me hooked into all this.) My hope is that Harbaugh can ultimately do the same. I have to believe he can and will and that QB clinic video helped, despite real, clear, and troubling issues with the Offense.
January 11th, 2018 at 10:20 AM ^
Thanks for the post. I'll say this, if you told me that our record would be 10-3, 10-3, 8-5 in Harbaugh's first three seasons I would gladly take that. I wouldn't have been happy with all the losses to rivals, but you have to admit that those losses to MSU/OSU over the last two years have been competitive and close.
For whatever reason, voodoo, hacks, fubar, or bad juju we have angered the football gods and like Hercules are in the middle of a herculean effort to bring Michigan back to the top of the B10.
This is all a part of the journey. Go Blue!
January 11th, 2018 at 11:05 AM ^
having never played organized football i have a much more appreciation (above of all the appreciation i have currently) to the minute details that need to be adjusted and perfected by everyone is every situation.
especially felt it when i watched coach harbaugh explain the relationship between the center and QB in ball handling around 16 minute mark. having the center, in addition to reading the defense and adjusting instructions, make mental calibrations on each offensive play to properly hand off the football with a QB change midgame is incredible and just points to all the time spent during practice just to perfect that 1 second motion to initiate the play nevermind all the other more complex nuances of the specific play.
January 11th, 2018 at 11:47 AM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^
My two cents as has been stated by many. Something is toxic on the offensive side of the ball. I'm betting high like many others are that it is someone or a duo of options. The quarterback play and wide receiver play was the most disheartening. The offensive line held it's own I thought against Ohio and Wisconsin. Two pretty good defenses but still had two seniors and Bredeson. Jim cannot coach the quarterbacks all the time on his own. He has a passing game coordinator. That is Pep. So either Pep is incompetent or hates the situation he accepted there and the players don't like him much either for that because his attitude is poor. He seems like an Al Borges in some of his interviews. Not my type of guy. As for Drevno, he isn't getting the elite offensive lineman into the program. He's gotten a few but there probably are better guys out there for the job. It will be telling now that Notra Dame just lost their o-line coach to the NFL. There is no reason that with this group of kids coming back next year with all of their playing time and a new/talented S&C coach that they shouldn't be better than the Irish's o-line next year. Fact of the matter is, Jim needs more help on the offensive side of the ball to get this thing moving and Drevno/Pep are not the guys to do it. One lacks experience and the other ambition/attitude. Just the way I see it.
January 11th, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 1:43 PM ^
Those who predicted 8-4 usually called that the floor. And 10-2 seemed to be the consensus.
We finished 8-5. And here's the hard part, 9-4 with a win over South Carolina would have salvaged some momentum for the program, although SC was a bad team and if we would have won that game it would have been an ugly win vs a team we were supposed to beat badly. No Big Ten team was favored by more points in their bowl game than we were.
So we finished 8-5, and without a good win in those 8 save for Purdue which is a minimally good win at best. The most shocking thing for us die hards was the way the team looked in the Bowl. Never for one second since we hired Harbaugh did I think I would see a Michigan Football team not prepared to play in the least for a Bowl game. We looked putrid and like we regressed all over the field after a mnth's worth of Bowl practice.
It is what it is now, I still have faith in Harbaugh, but if I'm being totally honest, this program does not look like one that is one the rise...quite the opposite.
January 11th, 2018 at 2:33 PM ^
If you're being totally honest, there isn't a consensus 10-2. In the preseason, S&P was 9-3, ESPN FPI was 8-4, a collection of media outlets and college writers and voters had Michigan at 9-3 or 8-4. In my research I found USA Today and SI pre-season predictions at 10-2. But to paint a picture that this was a team which was a contender or wouldn't have problems is disingenuous at best.
January 11th, 2018 at 3:33 PM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 7:49 PM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 3:35 PM ^
January 11th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^
initially passed on Shea Patterson. Why would he do that if he thought Peters wasn't a player? I know he had Speight, but he wasn't performing well and we don't know what we have with McCaffrey.