Interesting Athletic article on M "giving up" recruiting Ohio
Behind a paywall, but worth reading if you can. they compare Harbaugh to past M recruiting, which made a living in Ohio. They aren't criticizing him, just noting the difference.
"Putting together a top-five class has become routine at Ohio State, but the hours spent formulating a plan and executing it is a non-stop effort, led by player personnel director Mark Pantoni.
You want to know what else is on those walls? Michigan’s recruiting board.
“We put their recruiting list on the board, compare our guys to theirs just about every day, every week,” Buckeyes coach Ryan Day said. “Something that Mark looks at every day."
And...
"In Michigan’s classes in 2016, 2018 and now in 2020, the Wolverines have signed or will sign zero prospects from Ohio. In the four classes between 2016-19, there were 45 four- or five-star players in Ohio. Michigan signed three. Of the 20 top-five players in Ohio in that five-year span, Ohio State signed 13. Meanwhile, Ohio State took important players out of Michigan such as Mike Weber, Damon Webb, Michael Jordan and Joshua Alabi.
Yes, Michigan was close to signing five-star defensive end Zach Harrison of Olentangy Orange in the 2019 class, but Day eventually won out despite OSU being in a coaching transition away from Meyer.
Michigan just hasn’t been a threat in Ohio. And that’s been big for Ohio State."
November 27th, 2019 at 6:14 PM ^
Interesting?
November 27th, 2019 at 6:55 PM ^
I wonder what happens, especially at night when the cowards come out, to the family home if a high Ohio recruit commits to Michigan.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
Nothing we dont know. Got to be better. Al Washington helped for awhile.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:23 PM ^
Maybe. Maybe not. We’ve been pretty much shut out in Ohio since Tressel got there. Perhaps the staff figures time and efforts are better spent on recruits that we might actually have a chance with.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:40 PM ^
Jake Butt? Chris Wormley? Taco Charlton?
We haven't been shut out since Tressel. Minimized sure, but not shut out. Hoke recruited Ohio quite well, Harbaugh has not.
And OSU isn't even recruiting Ohio that hard, many of the top Ohio prospects are going to Kentucky. Check this year's top 20.
November 27th, 2019 at 8:36 PM ^
Fair point. Hoke actually did alright there. JH has only couple guys decently rated in Hudson (gone) and Rumler, to go with some other lower ranked guys. I guess my point is maybe JH feels he’ll have more success with recruits in other regions. Obviously they went after Harrison because there was a chance with him. Other guys already leaning hard for OSU, possibly they just say fuck it and move on.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:43 PM ^
Is Ohio still producing the same amount of talent they were producing in the past? I don't think so.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:10 PM ^
It's down a little from 10-15 years ago, but it's still putting out a good # of 5-stars and high 4's. Ohio's population is still growing, though it's almost stagnant; it's not like Pennsylvania, where the talent has almost completely dried up. To be honest it's the emergence of Louisiana and Georgia that has diluted the quality of Ohio's talent more than anything.
November 27th, 2019 at 9:02 PM ^
OSU gave up recruiting Ohio, too. Meyer grabbed the elite kids from Ohio then left the state to recruit athletes and skill players. It’s no secret why the SEC dominates college football. The kids in the South and states like Texas and California play football all year while in Michigan they put in three to four months.
November 28th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
The last four classes they've taken 25 Ohio kids, along with six already committed in next years class.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:29 PM ^
Zach Harrison committing to Day despite the coaching change sounds like a nice job by Day. Did it fail to mention Mattison and Washington flipping? Because those are some important factors to consider lol.
And Michael Jordan spent most his life in Ohio, but facts aren’t important.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
He lived in Cincinnati and down south longer than he lived in Michigan. Grew up an ohio fan.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:45 PM ^
We've recruited plenty of guys from Ohio that grew up OSU fans, just saying.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:10 PM ^
sounds like a nice job by a booster, wink, wink
November 27th, 2019 at 6:30 PM ^
Plays a part - for sure. But .... is it a factor of UM not spending resources in Ohio or UM has been unsuccessful in Ohio.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:30 PM ^
The problem isn't OSU, it's that a decent amount of good players from Ohio are going to Kentucky and Cincinnati. These players are very important when it comes to motivation against the Buckeyes.
November 28th, 2019 at 9:31 PM ^
None of those kids are / were offered by OSU. The only high level Ohio recruit that was a plan A for them (not a backup plan) in the last 6 or 7 years and they lost was Jackson Carman who went to Clemson. So what did they do after losing Carman ? They went out and got a commitment from Nicholas Petit-Frere, the nation's top OT and rated higher than Carman
November 27th, 2019 at 6:31 PM ^
We had a 2020 commit from Ohio.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
I think what is more important than Ohio is that Michigan doesnt always lock down Michigan players. Whatever is going on at Belleville needs to be fixed because weve let a few 5 stars go elsewhere the last few years. I'd like to lock down the state like Ohio does theirs.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
The Belleville issues don't seem major anymore. One of Michigan's top 2020 commits named Andre Seldon is from Belleville. Jamari Buddin is a 2021 4 star LB from that school and he's reportedly interested in Michigan.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:34 PM ^
Its not just Belleville, you are right. In 2018 there was McCall a 5 star, Kalon Gervin a 4 star corner and in 2019 there was Logan Brown, Devontae Dobbs and Julian Barnett all 4 and 5 stars. In 2020 theres Justin Rogers who is a 4 star and top 50 player. All different schools but important losses. Gervin and Barnett wouldve helped shore up corner issues and the other ones could've added to our oline. We need to keep top 100 players in state if there aren't issues with them.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
Going to Michigan is not easy academically. Sometimes, admissions is an issue, sometimes players just want to take a different route. Michigan has done quite well in Michigan since Harbaugh arrived. OSU does not get all the talent in Ohio, they get a majority of it, but not all of it.
November 27th, 2019 at 8:45 PM ^
I think it’s getting harder for Belleville coaches to steer their kids to Mork now that his teams suck. I’m sure they wish they still could, but they have to appear credible.
November 27th, 2019 at 9:01 PM ^
Oak Park seems like an issue as well
November 27th, 2019 at 6:39 PM ^
The best players on their team are from Maryland and Georgia...
November 27th, 2019 at 6:42 PM ^
The way this is worded makes it seem like Michigan not recruiting Ohio well has been a big win for Ohio State but I think they're getting the order of things wrong. Michigan can't recruit players from Ohio because they have no success against Ohio State.
Like, why would a high school football player from Ohio prefer to go to Michigan over Ohio State if they have the opportunity at both? The've never seen Michigan win a conference title while Ohio State racks them up and challenges for national titles every year. Michigan's lone win against OSU in their life came when they were in elementary school. No shit they chose to go to OSU!
November 27th, 2019 at 6:46 PM ^
They are better.
November 27th, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
Harbaugh is much more interested in recruiting guys from New England. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Jersey are the new Ohio.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
They do seem to have taken competition with Michigan quite seriously, I give them that.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:02 PM ^
Little point wasting time/resources to get the guys OSU doesn't want, difficult to get a guy OSU wants in Ohio when they're not just the home team but one of the handful of teams with an inside track to the playoffs every year. Needs to be a unique scenario I feel.
November 28th, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
Jake Ryan and Pat O'Mahmah worked out well for us.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:05 PM ^
Most of Ohio's best players are from out of state. Chase, Dobbins, Fields, Okudah - none from Ohio.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:53 PM ^
How do they know what the UM recruiting board looks like?
My guess is that they have a subscription to 24/7 and look at the list of offers. I am pretty sure that is what UM people do as well.
November 27th, 2019 at 9:49 PM ^
They probably learn a lot from talking to players and HS coaches. And Mattison.
November 27th, 2019 at 7:59 PM ^
Beat them on the field and Ohio players will be back to coming here why come to a school your going to lose 4 time against and never be able to return home without being a joke? Wasn't that Zach Harris' quote after the game last year? "can I really go to Michigan and lose 4 time to OSU. I'd never be able to show my face in my town again"
November 27th, 2019 at 8:22 PM ^
Hard to be a threat when you are paying a few hundred thousand less than the other guys.
November 27th, 2019 at 11:23 PM ^
It’s much easier to believe that OSU is paying players than it is to believe that kids want to go to a team that has won 14 of the last 16.
but ok.
November 28th, 2019 at 12:58 AM ^
Don't know if you're an OSU troll or not, but if you think that OSU is not paying players in the six figures, you're a fool. And you're an even bigger fool if you think that the history of the series matters more than that.
November 27th, 2019 at 8:37 PM ^
Beat them. You build it. They will come.
November 27th, 2019 at 8:48 PM ^
Brady Hoke was faced with the task of having to basically recruit nothing but OL and DL as RR put Michigan in a deep hole with his recruiting. Hoke and Mattison recruited Ohio for this and Harbaugh’s best team at Michigan was with Hoke’s recruits. Brady was unable to lead the program completely out of the RR years which cost him his job.
November 27th, 2019 at 10:03 PM ^
Hoke was also unable to recruit a QB in 4 years. I also wasn't a fan of his LB recruiting. He prioritized height over speed and didn't have a hybrid space player position. We had some good backers (Ryan, Gedeon) but they were better for stopping teams like MSU and Wisconsin than OSU. Think how much better Ryan would be in the Uche role.
Brady wasn't a very good coach and that cost him his job. Even if he were a good coach, he deserved to get fired after the Shane Morris incident.
November 27th, 2019 at 9:03 PM ^
I think there are several reasons why Ohio isn't being recruited as much as previous years.
-Ohio is still loaded with talent. However the recruiting world has changed, and elite programs can recruit nationally better than ever. With the resources available, national camps, recruiting services, and social media, programs like Michigan doesn't have to rely as much on the local states to find talented kids. It also means more schools can stick their foot into the Ohio pool.
-As dominate as Ohio State has been, they are going to get pretty much any kid they want out of Ohio. That means Michigan can either deviate lots of time and resources into IDing which kids Ohio State said no to as players that could develop into elite players, or they could take the top ranked kid out of say Massachusetts whose high on their board. Michigan has been going with the latter option as of late.
-In Ohio, I think there is a stigma about going to UM. You commit to UM, you are going to get shit from your entire town, and may never win a game against them.
November 27th, 2019 at 9:34 PM ^
Part of the history of the rivalry is Ohio kids going to UM. For some reason we have taken our foot off the gas in Ohio.
The talent remains in Ohio, probably the fifth best football state in the country. Put it this way, OSU has commits in the 30's and 40's from state ranked kids.
Next years class is loaded in Ohio, and OSU has commits from four of the top 5, and probably the 6th rated is going to OSU. If we are lucky we get Kiner.
We don't have a single Ohio kid who is seeing significant playing time. When is the last time that happened?
November 28th, 2019 at 5:56 AM ^
Ohio talent isn’t what it used to be. Most of Osus best players are out of state.
November 28th, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Next years #1 player in the country, from Ohio, also committed to OSU.
Paris Johnson is the #7 player in the country. Zach Harrison was the #12 player in the country last year. This year they had 17 players in the top 500 players in the country. Last year they had 22 players in the top 500 in the country, including 4 in the top 100.
It is still a very good state, and next years class is loaded.
November 28th, 2019 at 11:37 AM ^
OSU has locked down the top players in the state but Cincinnati and even KY are now picking up the 4 stars and high 3 stars that used to go to UM, MSU etc.
November 28th, 2019 at 9:47 PM ^
UK and Cincy are pulling in the next wave of Ohio kids that OSU doesn't offer. Actually, they've really hurt MSU far worse than UM as MSU basically has to pull in regional talent and doesn't have the brand name like UM to recruit nationally. There's a reason Cincy has been a real good team the last 2 to 3 years and it starts with the decent talent they're now getting.
November 27th, 2019 at 10:14 PM ^
Tressel winning along with RR fiasco, was able to lock us out of state. Several plan B guys that usually went to M, got steeree to dantoni (and the reason for MSU success) instead of coming to us. Hoke made a great effort in Ohio and got good ones but didn't win enough,and along came Harbaugh with Meyer humming on all cylinders.
The only way we get back into the state like the good years is if we beat them a few times, and hold the line. Then they'll start coming again.
It's critical to have lots of Ohio players for their sacrifice they make personally to leave that shit state and all the crap their family will get. They know they have to win the game.
November 27th, 2019 at 10:14 PM ^
Let's face it, Ohio kids (whether fans of OSU or not) are very knowledgable about Michigan's current problems in the rivalry. In New England or Florida, the top recruits see Michigan as a much more successful program because they don't hear the constant negatives (thank god they also don't read this board). In the end, other posters have it right...when Michigan begins to win again in the rivalry, we will again start drawing more recruits out of the state.
November 27th, 2019 at 10:41 PM ^
Thought this was interesting. Wouldn't have guessed it. According to 247 Hoke's four classes averaged 15 in the country. Harbaugh's first four averaged 18. Hell, RR's 3 classes averaged 12.6. I assumed Harbaugh would've recruited better than them.