Franz Impressive in NBA Debut
Franz Wagner acquitted himself pretty well in his rookie debut for the Magic last night, a blow-out loss to the Spurs. He was featured by NBA.com as one of five rookies with promising debuts. He shot 6-9 from the field for 12 points and had 4 boards, 2 assists, 2 blocks, and a steal. This was nice to see since he kind of underwhelmed in the summer league.
He also outplayed rookie teammate Jalen Suggs.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:09 AM ^
I just watched a highlight video and they routinely confused him and his brother on the video.
October 21st, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
Very simple
Mo=tongue out
Franz=tongue in.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:15 AM ^
Franz played the most minutes of any Magic player last night. Moe and Iggy also played 15+ minutes.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:33 AM ^
I think I knew this, but both Wagners and Iggy are on the Magic and all are getting minutes? That's pretty cool.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:44 AM ^
I believe the plan is for Teske to sign on the G league squad as well- he won the G League title with them last year.
October 21st, 2021 at 12:19 PM ^
I assume they also have options on Stauskas and McGary, since they apparently are signing all the white Michigan basketball stars.
October 21st, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^
This comment was not called for nor funny.
October 21st, 2021 at 1:23 PM ^
Totally agree... everyone knows Stauskas identifies as a Canadian!
October 21st, 2021 at 4:18 PM ^
Pretty sure that Ali G was just making an unoffensive, innocuous joke. Made me smile a bit...
October 21st, 2021 at 11:42 PM ^
I like it. Maybe I'm bad...
But I like it. Funny shit.
October 21st, 2021 at 10:44 AM ^
Pretty pretty cool.
October 21st, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
Yeah. It is cool. -Patriot.
October 21st, 2021 at 12:14 PM ^
Even crazier (maybe): None of them overlapped at Michigan.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:14 PM ^
Oh Oh It's Magic, you kn-o-oww
October 21st, 2021 at 9:27 AM ^
I was sort of shocked to see this post. I checked the game when it started and Franz had hit his first shot. When I checked again at the start of the 4th Quarter, he only had 4 points. Glad to see he hit a few more buckets after that.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
Did not see this game, but did catch a bit of the Pistons opener. The NBA game has changed so quickly. Almost unrecognizable to someone who was last interested 15 years ago when the Pistons were good. There are basically 10 Franz-like objects out there. All arms and legs, up and down, gazelles everywhere. I think Franz is going to excel perhaps sooner than many people thought.
October 21st, 2021 at 11:44 AM ^
What’s crazy is that this wasn’t even a gradual change over 15 years. If you watch the Lakers of 2008-10, they aren’t much different than the style of play seen over the 20 years prior. Even the Heat teams with LeBron were pretty standard - though Bosh did steadily become a very good stretch 4 who could hit a 3 every now and then.
The way the game was pleated didn’t appear to start changing a lot until about 2013/14 seasons, when Curry/Klay/Harden/Lillard and others really started coming into their own. Golden State winning it all with a 3 point attack in 2015 really put the league in overdrive as everyone tried to copy this.
Within 2-3 years of this, all of the big men could launch 3s and run fast breaks like gazelles. Even older traditional centers like Marc Gasol adapted to fast-paced offenses and shooting 3s. It became so wild to watch, that traditional bigs who didn’t adapt were quickly deemed scrubs - such as Roy Hibbert or Jahlil Okafor.
Now that it’s been 8 or so years, this style of play has totally been ingrained into the new players like Luka, Ja Morant, Trae Young, Jaren Jackson, DeAndre Ayton and more.
October 21st, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^
My take is that the change started with the "Big Three" Heat. During the first year or two, they tried playing a pretty traditional style with Joel Anthony as the center. The problem was that Anthony was terrible, and they needed more shooting to capitalize on LeBron and Wade. In the last couple years of that team, they shifted Bosh to center (and Bosh developed a 3pt shot) and put shooters like Ray Allen, Shane Battier and Mike Miller around the stars, proving that you don't really need a traditional center.
Obviously the "Lineup of Death" Warriors expanded greatly upon that concept, but the Heat were the first dominant team that regularly played without a traditional center.
October 21st, 2021 at 1:28 PM ^
It seems to be the trend may have started gradually in the early 2000’s when teams in the west were trying to figure out how to beat Shaq and the Lakers, there simply no answer for Shaq inside, so why not have your bigs stretch out a bit and develop a jumper. Webber’s King’s when Webber all of a sudden has a lethal jumper from 18 feet along with great passing and ball handling (Divac was more of a defensive presence than anything at C), while Bibby ran the point well, Stojokovic was the best 3 guy in the league and one other European I can’t remember the name of was also pretty deadly.
Then you had Dirk and the Mavs who obviously was a 7 footer that could come out and shoot from anywhere along with great point play from Nash.
Then in 2005, a Pistons team with a lengthy 2/3 guy in Hamilton, great PG play from Billups, a 6-9 stretch 3/4 guy in Rasheed who was money from 3, another stretch 3/4 with tons of offensive and defensive ability in Teyshaun Prince, and a defensive specialist at Center in Ben Wallace was ultimately the team that dethroned Shaq and Kobe. Maybe all these stretch Big Men were a way to try and neutralize a Shaq like presence and add more balanced scoring across the top 5-6 guys.
I feel like Lebron’s Heat was the next step, and then the Warriors teams a few years later solidified the stretch and run style of play.
Also, I am going to note and go out a limb here, that after Belien had a couple successful tourney runs in 2013 and 14 with lethal 3 point shooting from THJ, Stauskas, Levert, Burke, etc and solid Pick n roll bigs which neutralized a lot of more traditional teams with more talent at the bigs…seems to be right before the Warriors suddenly took over the NBA with a similar offense. Have to wonder if Belien and Kerr traded schematic notes and if maybe that’s why Belien thought he had a shot in the NBA? Just my baseless Mgohomer NBA takeover-conspiracy, lol.
October 21st, 2021 at 5:02 PM ^
I loved the Sac team with C-Webb! So much fun and would've been in the Finals with a chance for a ring, if not for Tim Donaghey sandbagging the Lakers series.
I think the other European you were thinking of was Hedo Turkoglu.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:03 PM ^
Yes! Hedo is who I was missing! Kept seeing his face but no name came to mind. And then Bobby Jackson off the bench was awesome too. Those King’s teams were a blast to watch!
October 21st, 2021 at 6:00 PM ^
Not to be nit picking but The ball don't lie was 6 foot 11. Prince was 6 foot 9 and Ben was 6foot 8 or 9 depending on where you got the info. Add in 6 foot 7 Rip and Big shot at 6 3 and they had a good size lineup. It could be successful in today's NBA. Then they had 6 foot 11 Okur off the bench if I remember correctly.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:00 PM ^
I stand corrected on height of Rasheed, but the style of play and makeup of the roster certainly seemed to emulate a lot of what we see today.
Also, I think Big Ben had a bit of a “Fletch Height”. I always saw him listed at 6-7; 6-10 with the hair. Was remarkably short for such a great defensive shot blocker, rebounder and center…strong as an ox though, and his free throw shooting made Shaq’s look good. Still to this day the only NBA player I recall air balling a free throw.
October 21st, 2021 at 7:15 PM ^
I would go a little earlier than that. I think Mike D'Antoni is going to go down as one of those coaches who is famed not for winning championships, but for the way he helped revolutionize the game. Those Steve-Nash-led Suns teams and the way they spaced their shooters and ran up and down the floor were really the vanguard for the new style of basketball.
October 21st, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
Both your comment and Ali's response are enjoyable insight, the kind of stuff that makes message boards like this worth reading.
The Heat may have changed things a bit, but they also had an unparalleled top end roster. The Warriors just wrecking the league transformed the way people thought about basketball, in my experience.
October 21st, 2021 at 1:43 PM ^
I am an NBA casual but hasn't there been a counter to this again, with more dominant big man play and playoff-time grit/toughness (for lack of better words) becoming paramount. I've read about this pendulum swinging back, as evidenced by the last two or three NBA champs, who of course had great support shooting/spacing, but primarily dominant frontcourts and paint play
October 21st, 2021 at 1:49 PM ^
I was watching the Knicks last night and noticed something that jives with what you're all saying but it struck me how different basketball is from when I grew up in the 80's: Evan Fournier, essentially the Knicks 2 guard, grabbed a rebound and passed it to Julius Randle, the Knicks center, who brought the ball up the court. Times have changed
October 21st, 2021 at 6:11 PM ^
Julius Randle is technically their Power forward and Robinson is there center but Randle does play some center when the other team has a smaller center. But yea having a center who can shoot threes and dribble and other stuff is more beneficial than a center like Dickinson for the NBA. That's why Joel E. Is so valuable he can play old school and new school at the center position.
October 22nd, 2021 at 7:54 AM ^
Time was that there only a few guys on an NBA roster that you'd feel comfortable with handling the ball in an open court or on a break. Now, damn near every guy on the court can handle the ball and run the break, including guys who are over 6'8". Plus a good chunk of them can pull up and hit threes.
Once they get forced into a half court offense though, it's almost all dribble drive (with a potential kick-out to the 3-point shooters) or pick and roll. And both of those also require good ball handling skills.
I actually enjoy watching today's game. There's a lot of skill and a lot of quick decisions and creativity. That's just me; I know that others might prefer the previous version.
October 21st, 2021 at 4:01 PM ^
Well, Giannis was the best player in the league last year, and he does most of his work in the paint. People compare him to Shaq a lot because of how unguardable he is once he gets the ball anywhere near the basket.
Joel Embiid is one of the best players in the game, too, and more of a traditional big. The 76ers may have very well been in the finals last year had Ben Simmons not decided to quit playing basketball in the middle of the Hawks series.
Both these fools throw up a few three-balls per game, though, just to be current.
October 21st, 2021 at 5:54 PM ^
Ol Roy had a decent career and was older and pretty sure he got hurt but Okafor and centers like that don't really play much now.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
6 for 9 you say?
October 21st, 2021 at 10:40 AM ^
Nice!
October 21st, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
I'm going to miss his gliding finger roll lay-ups that he was able to start at about the 3 point line this year.
I am most going to miss his gumby arms wrecking havoc on D.
October 21st, 2021 at 9:53 AM ^
He looked good out there. Made good cuts to the basket and made an impact defensively. I'm still convinced the Magic have no clue what they're doing in regards to building their roster and their philosophy for the team, so I'm hoping Franz doesn't become another victim to it
October 21st, 2021 at 9:54 AM ^
I will be at the Orlando vs Detroit on January 8th, hope to see Iggy, Franz brothers and Livers play! In fact it's the only reason I'm going.
October 21st, 2021 at 10:39 AM ^
So it's "I'm Franz and this is my other brother Franz?"
October 21st, 2021 at 10:36 AM ^
Iggy with the -30 in 19 minutes, oof.
October 21st, 2021 at 2:26 PM ^
Raw +/- for a team as bad as the Magic is often deceiving, but that is still a oof
October 21st, 2021 at 11:12 AM ^
That's the type of stat line I expect from him. He's going to do a lot of things well for you without necessarily overwhelming the offense with usage and he'll be a disruptive defender.
October 21st, 2021 at 11:54 AM ^
Franz pumps me up
October 21st, 2021 at 12:06 PM ^
Might have to become a Magic fan (not that I expect them to do much), but three Michigan Alums with at 4th on the G squad.....
Nice....
October 21st, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^
Great to see many former Wolverines do well especially Jordan Poole ( with Curry) beating the Lakers. The Pistons game was good until no one could figure out how to score in the last 7 minutes besides Jerami Grant, without Cade Cunningham.
Strange to see rookies Cade, Luka Garza, and Isaiah Livers all chatting and smiling as teammates in street clothes last night. What a college team nucleus that would have been.
Game of the day had to be Celtics/Knicks in 2ot.
October 21st, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^
Nice to see Franz with benefits.
October 21st, 2021 at 1:17 PM ^
There was some buzz that he wasn't doing well, but I don't think that's the case. He's just the kind of player who will contribute in subtle ways. See this, for example:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/magic-credit-franz-wagner-impacting-181417349.html
October 21st, 2021 at 1:56 PM ^
The buzz he wasnt doing well was not completely unfounded. He shot really poorly in the summer league (2-13 from deep) and didnt look great offensively.
He improved a lot on some of the other parts of his game come the preseason but still wasnt much of an offensive threat, so nice to see him shoot the ball effectively (at least from inside the arc) yesterday and play well. Hopefully he can do that consistently and develop the 3pt shot
October 21st, 2021 at 1:46 PM ^
Florida has been doubly blessed, with the promise of Franz and the occasional visits from Beate!
October 21st, 2021 at 10:06 PM ^
Yes!!!!
October 21st, 2021 at 1:53 PM ^
No 3's? He'll never make it in the NBA.
October 21st, 2021 at 2:14 PM ^
orlando must have no bench. iggy was minus 30 points while on the floor; franz was only minus 4.