Can we backtrack a little about JH's offense
39 points is plenty. If the TE catch maybe another 10. His control offense has been tried and trued. Think I'm full of BS? Think back to the Army-Oklahoma game about 4 games into the season. After 60 minutes the score was tied 21-21. Army had zero business being in the game let alone tied. Army controlled the ball and the clock. Oklahoma wins in OT and you know that Army had a very limited aerial attack so calls for a new look Aerial Assault should consider Army (which earned a standing O from the Norman fans).
November 27th, 2018 at 10:21 PM ^
I feel like we’ve already talked about the offense in like 17 other threads.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:28 PM ^
...but with grammar, punctuation, and coherence.
November 28th, 2018 at 8:47 AM ^
Michigan was losing 41-19 in the third quarter. I don't think people realize how early garbage time started.
November 28th, 2018 at 9:01 AM ^
Shoot 6 of those 19 came on the muffed kick off. Not much credit to be handed out
November 28th, 2018 at 1:16 PM ^
0 points scored in the third quarter. That itself is an issue.
November 28th, 2018 at 3:10 PM ^
i'm not sure what "that's an issue" means, or what it's supposed to tell us.
we had three possessions in the third quarter:
- a three-and-out,
- a first-and-out (this is the blocked punt posssession), and
- an interception.
obviously, it's a really crappy stretch, but "0 points in the third quarter" doesn't really mean that much. three possessions without scoring isn't the end of the world, if we don't make mistakes. what ohio state was doing on the against our defense and special teams that killed us.
November 28th, 2018 at 4:47 PM ^
I don’t know why anyone would question an offense that goes 3-and-out continuously and gets outscored by 17-0 in a quarter. I mean, great offenses always lay eggs when they desperately need points to stay in the game.
I mean, guys, we scored 39 points on a team that gave up 50 to Purdue and Maryland.
It is hard as a Harbaugh fan to not criticize the offense when people make asinine defenses of not scoring at all when that is the job of said side of the ball.
November 28th, 2018 at 5:25 PM ^
i'm not suggesting that we shouldn't question the offense, nor am i "defending not scoring at all." i'm saying that "no points in the third quarter" doesn't mean as much as the fact that we flat-out gave them 14 points on two huge, huge mistakes.
let's be clear here - i'm not defending the offense, or suggesting that this game was closer than the score indicated. we got hamblasted. what i AM saying is that the offense didn't lose us this game.
November 28th, 2018 at 5:24 PM ^
If OP is suggesting everything is okay with our offense, and--during the most critical stretch of the game--we score 0 points while OSU scores 17 points, I think that is an issue for our team. If you rewatch those possessions, none of them were very good. In particular, given that our D finally got a stop right after the half, for us to run the ball up the middle twice to no avail, creating a long third down, was devastating.
As to what it is supposed to tell us, I think it tells OP (and maybe you) not to take solace in the number 39. When points are scored and how they are scored matter more than the raw amount scored. And, here, we really only scored 13 points on merit against OSU as far as I am concerned. The fact there weren't major adjustments at half that would have led to a score in the 3rd quarter is an issue.
November 28th, 2018 at 5:41 PM ^
fair enough, and for what it's worth, i'm not taking solace in the 39 points. i do disagree at least somewhat re: "13 points on merit," but point taken...i can see where you're coming from.
around the time it got out of hand (which i do think was later than others have suggested), i said that ohio state seemed to play with aggression right from the jump and we didn't. that was not, in my opinion, limited to the playcalling or the offensive game plan, or adjustments. i'm not a big fan of players waving their arms around all the time, but i don't recall too many of our guys (on either side of the ball) seeming like they couldn't wait to get out there and smack someone around. that bugs me as much as anything the coaches did or didn't do.
November 28th, 2018 at 7:01 PM ^
Michigan was losing 41-19 in the third quarter. I don't think people realize how early garbage time started.
TING!
Exactly. 20 sad points.
November 28th, 2018 at 3:43 PM ^
One more can't hurt.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
A lot of points scored in garbage time. The offense was as putrid as the defense and special teams.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:27 PM ^
What garbage time? Urban left his starters in almost the entire game. (And one had a serious injury because of Urb's desire for "style points.")
November 27th, 2018 at 10:30 PM ^
Almost the entire game?!?! Haskins and Weber were in on the last two victory formations, along with 4 out of 5 of the offensive line (the 5th was injured on the 3rd to last play). Karma for Urban?
November 27th, 2018 at 11:21 PM ^
Do you think he went into victory formation because he was scared of karma? I thought another TD would've only helped his playoff chances and was kind of surprised they didn't give it a shot.
November 28th, 2018 at 3:58 PM ^
Yes, there was no garbage time for them.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:22 PM ^
24-19 at the half. Could've went one instead of two and Gentry should've caught that pass. If the defense doesn't completely shit the bed, those first two quarters, it easily could've been 24-14 Michigan. Oh but little cupcake Spaeth says I'm dumb because I believe the rest of Michigan's points weren't in garbage time. Yeah ohio gave Michigan those points, just like they didn't try getting to 70. If that guy wouldn't have gotten hurt, he would've gotten to 70 with a smirk. I'd love to sit on my prissy little ass in dreamland Michael just as you do. Maybe you'll wake up in your 40's jackass!!!
November 27th, 2018 at 11:27 PM ^
If you are going to play the 'what if' game on one side you have to also acknowledge that the O was gifted the ball at the 10 on the kickoff fumble.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:42 PM ^
OSU blocked a punt, returned an interception to the 2 and returned another interception (off the 3rd string QB) to the 19. All three of those situations resulted in TDs. That's 21 points in a 23 point loss. Michigan certainly didn't help it's own cause with miscues during the game.
November 28th, 2018 at 12:04 AM ^
Good offenses don't throw picks...good offenses actually score touchdowns in the redzone when they need to (OSU).
November 28th, 2018 at 12:33 AM ^
Field goals whine about doing their best.
Touchdowns fuck the prom queen.
November 28th, 2018 at 10:49 AM ^
I think Red Zone offense is 100% in play. I'm not sure what the deal is there.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:55 PM ^
The offense was actually pretty good, and would have been that much better if we hadn't suddenly, mysteriously taken all RPO out that we had added in mid-season. We don't need an overhaul, but that sure was a strange decision.
November 28th, 2018 at 3:44 PM ^
Agreed - the offense scored enough to win 90% of games.
November 28th, 2018 at 12:08 AM ^
It could have easily been 24-13 or 28-13 at halftime if OSU doesn't muff the kickoff. What's the point of doing this sort of thing? OSU was gashing with the runs because the defense had already quit. If they wanted to get to 69 they would have. At least 32 of UM's points were not in garbage time, but it's not like OSU has a good defense this year... They gave up 51 to Maryland and couldn't really stop them much. Scoring 30+ is what you should expect with normal output considering what Maryland did.
November 28th, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^
Sparty scored 6.
So scuttle back to the RCMB.
November 28th, 2018 at 11:07 AM ^
Our offense had 19 points and 180 yards at the end of the third quarter. It sucked all day.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:36 PM ^
That's not true.
November 28th, 2018 at 5:54 AM ^
Just so we are all on the same page, points scored during garbage-time don't count, but points allowed do? Just making sure we are being consistent.
November 28th, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^
Yep, and the point remains and will always remain that this offense will run the ball predictably up the middle on first and long and second and long and use no creativity on those downs. Yes the defense failed to adjust and absolutely sucked donkey balls but the offense could have made a track meet out of it if they had at least been more creative and less predictable. We were having success through the air even with Gentry's mind numbing drops.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:24 PM ^
With the way the defense had been playing all season, you would expect 39 points to be enough to win the game.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:23 PM ^
On most days a 400+ yard outing w ~ 40 points wins. Had we not given up 600 yards and 62 points (which I hope never happens again) we'd have won and used time of possession to choke the life out of them (like we did against other teams all season).
November 27th, 2018 at 10:26 PM ^
Too many field goals ilo touchdowns in the red zone especially in the last 3 games of the season. It felt like a lot of drives self destructed, no? I think Jim needs to consider a change and give control to an innovative up and coming OC.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:53 PM ^
Innovation is not the problem, What we need is a multi-dimensional offense and the courage to threaten the defense wide, up the middle, deep, intermediate, and short on any given play. We need to be able to defeat lesser opponents, and those with superior talent.
Any "up and coming OC" will be up and gone in a year or two.
November 28th, 2018 at 1:51 PM ^
Why do we have to have a particular "style." If we can win with smashmouth, run it down their throat. If we need to score more/faster against a really good team, open it up and be aggressive with your athletes in space. Nobody said we can't be both.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:28 PM ^
My complaints with the offense revolve around the third quarter. We scored 0 points. That allowed the blocked punt to be a massive momentum push for OSU. Until then, they had the momentum but not like we were dead in the water.
Other than that, offense was fine. Not amazing, but good enough.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:30 PM ^
Please. Just stop. That offense is a Frankensteinian stumblebum. The defense needed the offense to step up and the offense failed against a shit defense. We should've been able to score with them with the talent we have. And it will be this way till Harbaugh gives up playcalling, his obscene lust for blocky-catchy types, and hires a real O.C.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:41 PM ^
Amen. Harbaugh hopefully and FINALLY learned that this offense is a knife and more (AKA a gun) is needed to be truly elite. He's got the personnel, now he's just got to quit trying to make a Ferrari into a field plow
November 27th, 2018 at 11:11 PM ^
Watch true freshman Shae at Ol Miss (albeit against not great teams), and then imagine that offense style with DPJ, Collins, Martin, Perry, Gentry, Evans and Eubanks. Oh and Black.
November 28th, 2018 at 1:28 AM ^
Disagree.
"It'll be this way" until we win. Then it won't matter what his offense is like.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:35 PM ^
Army runs a triple option wishbone, which is nothing at all like anything Harbaugh has ever tried. Only Army, Navy, Air Force, and Georgia Tech run that offense. This post is shit. Pure, Grade A 100% shit.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:01 PM ^
Army has a much stronger and better running game than Michigan. It's what they specialize at doing.
Heck, Army's running game probably would've kept the OSU offense off the field for long periods of time and made it a lower scoring game.
Michigan doesn't run the ball as well as Army. Therefore we should've been passing more to stay in the game.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:33 PM ^
I can't tell if you're being serious or not but hell, my brain hurts!
November 27th, 2018 at 11:46 PM ^
Please tell me what do you mean? I simply stated that Army has a running game that's better than Michigan's ground game.
I mean, running the ball is basically all Army does on offense and they're one of the best teams at doing it.
I believe Army would've been capable of running against that weak OSU defense. Army's time of possession would've most likely limited OSU's opportunities to score 62 points.
November 28th, 2018 at 12:05 AM ^
I'm not even really sure what you're saying or trying to say.
But anyway, against better advice; Georgia Tech is the only team with more rushing yards than Army (88.7 ypg more than Michigan) yet Navy is the only team with less passing yards than Army (131.5 ypg less than Michigan with 6TD's to 3 picks). Looking at what Army does as to what Michigan should or should not do is really not something anyone should be doing.
November 28th, 2018 at 12:07 AM ^
And Oklahoma's defense is shit. A bad high school 8 man football team could score on them.
November 27th, 2018 at 10:38 PM ^
It’s not the total points and yards but WHEN and HOW they got them. This was a track meet from the word go. As a coach, you have to realize that and get the ball to your playmakers! Honestly sometimes I wonder why Collins, Black and DPJ stick around. They are all outstanding receivers and simply don’t get the ball enough.
November 27th, 2018 at 11:14 PM ^
Agree completely. JH is destroying the careers of his best offensive players.
Why doesn't he use them to their full potential??
November 28th, 2018 at 1:12 AM ^
Which probably explains why we haven't been able to land any solid receivers in 2 recruiting cycles. Why would a top notch WR want to play for ground n pound?