This Week's Obsession: Who Should Basketball Play? Comment Count

Seth

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This was a good idea. Also omigod #23 is Carlton Brundidge; I totally forgot that. [Fuller]

The Question:

Nothing we can do about Michigan basketball's crappy nonconference schedule, but I asked the MGoCrew who they'd play in a home and home.

 
Opponent KP Rk %win
Elon 268 97%
Xavier 31 72%
Uconn 32 57%
Syracuse* 33 ~57%
Zaga, TX, A&M, Wash 8, 34, 39, 135 ~21%
at NCState 41 46%
Hou Baptist 308 98%
at SMU 23 38%
Delaware St 335 99%
N Kentucky 271 97%
YSU 287 97%
Bryant 240 96%
*Cuse plays Charlotte (261st) in the first round.

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Ace: Michigan's non-conference schedule outside of Xavier and the Battle for Atlantis tournament—admittedly some strong competition—is woefully bad. Xavier is the only non-conference home opponent ranked within the top 240(!) teams on KenPom. While you want to schedule some easy wins, that's taking the concept to an extreme while sacrificing both RPI standing and fan interest; games against Houston Baptist and Delaware State aren't exactly big draws.

I'd love to see the Wolverines rekindle a local series against a team that's still quite beatable but at least has a pulse: Oakland. The Grizzlies tend to be ranked in the 150 range on KenPom—they're 160th this preseason—and John Beilein went 4-0 against them from 2008-2012, playing those games either at Crisler or The Palace. They're seemingly the perfect level of opponent; they hung within 20 points of Michigan in each of those games but never came closer than ten points in the final score. Their coach, Greg Kampe, still very much wants to play the series. They're local. They play MSU on a near-annual basis. It makes almost too much sense from both a resumé and fan interest standpoint—I'd so much rather watch Michigan take on Oakland or Detroit than some bottom-feeder from outside the Midwest, and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

[After the JUMP: if you seek a pleasant peninsula, look about you.]

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Seth: And of course the Xavier game is a 9 o'clock start before what will probably be a noon game 6 1/2 hours away (Penn State). Thanks Obrandon.

IMGP2064
I took crappy pictures last time. I think this is Jamestown.

First an RPI refresher. They average opponents' rankings instead of accounting for likelihood of victory, and overly reward winning on the road, so playing a team ranked in the bottom third of D-I will get a big strength of schedule ding. If you play a home and home with the 115th (~Penn State level) team, you're probably 2-0 with an SOS of 115 plus a road win bump. If you play at the #1 team and host the 301st, you end up 1-1 with an SOS of 150. Michigan basically did the latter. Going to Bradley a few years ago was great; on the other hand Michigan needs to erase Delaware State's AD's phone number then next time he calls pick up and be like "we don't accept unlisted numbers, sorry" and hang up.

The team I'd love to add is William & Mary. Have you ever been to Colonial Williamsburg (and very nearby Jamestown and Yorktown)? In mid-November? Oh. My. God. There probably isn't a more picturesque place in the United States. If you don't believe me, google map it  and pull the little street view guy literally anywhere. The gym can't hold that many visitors but I'd make sure to be one.

Basketball-wise the tribe are 122nd this year and ought to remain around there as long as Tony Shaver's in charge. They're also the fun kind of basketball team to play: top 50 in offense, bottom 300 in defense, one of the worst in the nation at ORebs and steals. They're academically our kind of people, and apparently don't mind scheduling power schools—they opened at Florida last year and played in Chapel Hill the night before New Years Eve. I can't imagine they would say no to a visit from Michigan. And if you say no to a visit to that part of the country you should be forced to watch The New World.

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Hockey at noon, basketball at 6, live taping of Stuffing the Passer at 9:30.
[Bryan Fuller]

Brian: Notre Dame. Notre Dame is annually a decent to good team. Notre Dame is a few hours away. Notre Dame and Michigan have a lot of history. Michigan should play Notre Dame in hockey, too. Notre Dame versus Michigan should exist in all sports. They should invent sports just so Michigan can play Notre Dame in them. This is my opinion.

In a similar vein as Oakland, Michigan should play Detroit on the regular, and they should go on the road when they do so every third year or fourth year. Michigan recruits Detroit. Having a regular appearance in the city that is very clearly not something Michigan has to do but wants to will help their profile—and not just in basketball but also in football. Also, Calihan Hall is a pretty cool place to watch a game.

It might cost a little more money but hopefully the current administration is less laser-focused on the bottom line in a spreadsheet. There are other things that are higher priority in a college athletic department, and playing Detroit in Detroit helps Michigan win.

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Alex: One of the great things about college basketball is seeing the bluebloods go on the road to face mid-majors. For example, North Carolina is traveling to Northern Iowa to face the Panthers in somewhat of a homecoming game for senior star Marcus Paige (who will unfortunately not be available due to injury).

With that in mind, there are a few prestige mid-major teams that would be really interesting for Michigan to schedule. Davidson's long-time coach Bob McKillop is positively Beileinesque with his offensive acumen; facing a team like Wichita State would be great preparation for the Big Ten season, facing Butler (though they're no longer a mid-major) would accomplish essentially the same thing as playing Notre Dame.

But I'll pick Dayton (who have been really good under Archie Miller), aka the Aubrey Dawkins classic. Or we could play Johnny Dawkins and Stanford (again). Just anybody other than who we're playing now.

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Seth: Dammit Brian and Alex. Those are great games and yes, Notre Dame forever, but we're trying to cheat RPI here. Brian hinted at this but what if Michigan could schedule one annual hockey-hoops doubleheader? Invite Western Michigan or Boston University or Miami (not THAT Miami) or, you know, Notre Dame, have the hockey game at noon and the basketball game at seven, and an outdoor ice rink or something to entertain between.

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David: I'm going to do a Top 3. 

3. Notre Dame.  Brian is right.  Michigan should play Notre Dame in pretty much everything.  Plus, I believe the last couple of times these two teams played, they were fantastic games.  In the 05-06 season, they played a double OT thriller with Michigan winning 87-84 at Crisler.  The year before, they played to an M victory 61-60.  Granted, its been a while, but these two schools seem to have some classic games across many sports. 

2. San Diego St. This is slightly more controversial because of the "Do We Play Former Coaches?" thing.  In this case, why not?  It could add some intrigue to a H&H series.  Steve Fisher is pushing the Aztecs out of the 'Mid-Major' category with developing quite a program in SoCal.  They've made the NCAA Tourney each of the last six seasons, which eclipses the previous number of seasons that the Aztecs qualified for the tournament in total.  In addition to that, they were a 'home' seed each of those six years and reached the Sweet Sixteen twice.  So, they're winning quite a few games.  Also, they can get athletes: NBA Superstar Kawhi Leonard.  Finally, a trip to San Diego -maybe in late December to combine with a football appearance at the Rose Bowl or Holiday Bowl?  Um, ok!

1.  North Carolina. Michigan has seemingly matched up against every other team in the B10/ACC Challenge at some point -at least every other team of note- over the last decade or so.  Why not play UNC?  To my knowledge, these teams haven't met in quite some time -at least the last 10-15 years.  North Carolina has one of the most storied traditions in college basketball history.  If Michigan fancies themselves as an elite program, we should compete with top tier teams consistently.  We've done H&Hs with Kansas, Duke, UConn, Arizona...let's play at Chapel Hill!

I like a lot of the other answers submitted and they all have very solid rationales, but these are just a few teams that would perk my interest from a fan's perspective, instead of looking at recruiting base, RPI, tournament clout, etc.

Comments

Everyone Murders

November 11th, 2015 at 1:02 PM ^

The ideal opponent for a home-and-home would be ... Appalachian State. 

We know that they're hot-hot-hot (even when it's cold), and it would help continue the storied sports rivalry between the schools.  We could have a Toys-R-Us ticket promotion to help sales.

So who's on board with this?  ... Anybody?  ...  Is this thing on?

UMQuadz05

November 11th, 2015 at 12:59 PM ^

"They should invent sports just so Michigan can play Notre Dame in them. This is my opinion."

Dammit Brian, I agree with you, but don't let the Quidditch teams hear this. 

PburgGoBlue

November 11th, 2015 at 1:07 PM ^

I like what the state of Indiana does, I think they do a small tourney with IU, Butler, ND, maybe Purdue? Something at the Palace would be cool with the Likes of UM, Staee, Oakland, Eastern/Western/CMU.

I liked squaring off against the likes of Duke, KU, UCLA as well. 

mgoBrad

November 11th, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^

There should be a "Best of Michigan" Tourney in basketball. Stupid idea for football, great for bball. Get WMU, CMU, EMU, Oakland, UDM, us and State together (or leave State out of it, whatever) and go at it.

TreyBurkeHeroMode

November 11th, 2015 at 6:56 PM ^

This would be excellent. Rotate it each year between the Van Andel Center and The Palace (or the new Joe Louis Arena if that'll do hoops) so that nobody's got "home court" advantage.

I've always loved the GLI in hockey, this is that idea taken to the next level. Winner gets a block of fudge from Mackinac they get to lick once before putting away for the year and a Shinola watch embedded in a petoskey stone.

NittanyFan

November 11th, 2015 at 1:17 PM ^

I look at the schedule and I see stuff like ----- Youngstown state at 6 PM ET on the Saturday before Christmas.  Or Bryant at 7 PM ET on Christmas Eve Eve.

Horrible and non-interesting opponents, at a time when everyone's running around shopping and attending Christmas parties, and it's liable to be snowing anyway.

I mean, do people attend these games?!?!?  I suppose those games still make $ (that's why they're scheduled), but those seem to be the perfect games to substitute with a visit to Oakland or a visit to a decent mid-major.

DY

November 11th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^

But they're well attended. In the past the AD has used GroupOn promotions to move tickets or packaged them with other B1G games to fill seats. And being at a time of year with all of the local schools on beak, a lot of families do attend those games. I actually like going to them. They're usually a blow out and you get to see guys play who wouldn't otherwise get on the court. 

I agree that scheduling better teams is an improvement for all the reasons listed.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

November 11th, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^

If RPI is the goal, some respectable-ish teams from conferences like the A-10, MVC, SEC, and AAC are the sweet spot for RPI-pumping.  Detroit and Oakland on the road would be excellent.  Also, that December 23 game against Bryant?  Play games like those at the Palace, or in the future, the Wings' new arena.  Students are gone for the holidays.  Moving the game to the Detroit metro would pump the RPI a little and give people a game that's easier to get to.  Everybody wins.  Well, except Bryant.

Also, more Duke.  That game is somewhere between a rivalry and just another game and it's interesting.

schreibee

November 11th, 2015 at 2:51 PM ^

Does playing Oakland or Detroit (Mercy still?) on the road, or neutral sites as suggested, improve RPI? I thought it was just the strength of the opponent?

So if we can schedule Metro area teams and get a bump from playing them not at Crisler, while giving people outside AA a chance to see the team on nights that might be underattended at home, that all sounds good.

Also, we play an ACC team at home every other year, correct? Then the other year there should definitley be a Xavier-Butler level opponent on the home schedule, at least.

I mean, Hell, for the fans. RPI only matters to bubble teams, so let's not be one of those anymore...right?!

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

November 12th, 2015 at 10:27 AM ^

Short RPI lesson: it only consists of three components.  Your record, your opponents' record, your opponents' opponents' record.

The quality of your opponent boosts the middle category, and indirectly the last category, but it never has anything to do with the first.  But they do adjust your record for whether you played the game at home, on the road, or at a neutral site.  Effectively, you get 1.25 wins for every road win, 1 win for every neutral win, and 0.75 for every home win.  (So if you're 1-1, but both games are on the road, the "your record" component is .625, not .500.)  Likewise you get 1.25 losses for a loss at home, and so on.  Doesn't matter whether you play Kentucky or Grambling State.  If you beat them on the road, it's 1.25 wins.  So you can juice your RPI by beating crappy opponents on the road.

RyGuy

November 11th, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^

Don't shiver with flashbacks as I mention this, but I think UM should play Eastern Michigan every year. Rob Murphy now has EMU as a regular division contender in the MAC, and not only do they have a pulse, they've beaten UM recently! Play for revenge!

Smidgens

November 11th, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^

Michigan vs W&M in Kaplan? Be still, my beating heart. That would be a fun game to watch. Wouldn't be surprised to see both teams in the 80s-90s if W&M can get hot with 3 pointers. Maybe an upset over Michigan is all we need to make our first Big Dance ;)

alum96

November 11th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^

I'd like to see more games vs the old Big East - not a ton of travel and good history and these are not world beaters but solid programs. 

  • Georgetown
  • St Johns (MSG - tons of alumni)
  • St Joes
  • Temple

Farther away I'd like to see a home and home with UCLA. Again not a powerhouse but great history and fun place to play.

I would also like to go to Penn just to see UM play in "The Palestra".

StephenRKass

November 11th, 2015 at 1:44 PM ^

Ideally, I'd like to see Michigan stay in the Big 10 footprint. And by that, I mean the traditional Big 10 footprint.

So, I am all in for Dayton, Notre Dame, Detroit, and Oakland. All decent teams, all close to Ann Arbor, significant interest.

Additional teams I'd love to see with a home and home:

Marquette, DePaul, Cincinnati, Iowa State, West Virginia, Butler. In this list, Iowa State might be too good of a team. But I've regularly seen Izzo and MSU play top notch competition. I'd like to see Michigan do the same thing. Ideally, add two of the weaker teams in a 2 home, 1 away game schedule, where they'd be willing to come twice in exchange for Michigan visiting once. And add maybe one or two home and home marquee type team. If you had two such games a year, you would have one at home, one away, every season.

Chitown Kev

November 11th, 2015 at 1:44 PM ^

for Michigan, traditionally, though?

 

Personally, I think that Michigan OOC BB schedule should always include Duke and Notre Dame (rather complicated now because both are in the ACC...alternate between the two schools as part of the B10-ACC challenge).

 

A tourney with all Michigan schools (outside of of MSU) and...why not an OOC game at Ford Field or even the UC?

Hugh White

November 11th, 2015 at 1:59 PM ^

For a Mid-Major matchup, I'd like to see another Harvard-Michigan Home-and-Home. M split a home-and-home with Harvard in 2007 and 2010. The Amaker revisit would make for good storylines.

COLBlue

November 11th, 2015 at 2:01 PM ^

Much rather be upset by an out-of-state team than an in-state one, and really even than a regional one.

 

Love to see Michigan play a few more opponents in the 100-199 range, but I think it could be done from teams from around the country.

Gr1mlock

November 11th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^

As a San Diego resident, I whole heartedly support playing SDSU.  Or USD (if you want an occasionally competent but lower mid major).  Or any of the LA teams.  Basically, I want to see Michigan games live and don't really care what flimsy justification I need for it.  

Evil Empire

November 11th, 2015 at 5:36 PM ^

For selfish reasons, of course.  I attended the Fab Five's second game, which was a road game at Cleveland State and the dedication game for CSU's then-new Convocation Center.  It was full that night.  I don't believe they've filled it for a CSU game since.  The crowd had plenty of maize and blue.  Lots of UM alumni and fans here in Cleveland, and it would be an easy road trip for anyone from Toledo/SE Michigan.

CSU's RPI was 128 at the end of last year.  As long as Gary Waters is the coach they should be decent, he's had only two bad years in nine, one of which was his first year.

Three Detroiters and one Farmington Hills resident are on their roster this year.

As a Horizon League team they are scheduling up by playing five MAC teams (one neutral site, one road, three home).  They're also playing Maryland in a tournament on Thanksgiving weekend and a road game at Rhode Island.  They are playing their "big" home games at the Cavs' arena as of this year, five such games scheduled this year, the rest at their on-campus arena.

This is the basketball version of my drumbeating for a football road game at Pittsburgh (closer to my house than Ann Arbor is).

Luckey1083

November 11th, 2015 at 6:54 PM ^

This is for selfish reasons only but Michigan should travel to Bozeman, MT to play MT St.!!! I live in Bozeman it's absolutely gorgeous here in December, I could even put a few of you up if you make the trip. Bozeman is a great college town lots to do and the people are so nice

kman23

November 12th, 2015 at 2:40 PM ^

Michigan played 12 OOC games last season but that includes the B10/ACC matchup which is not scheduled independently by Michigan. Assuming Michigan wants to stay in that 10-12 OOC games a year, here is my plan. Four locals, three regional matchups, and one game against each the A10, MWC, MVC, and WCC gives Michigan 11 OOC games and none of them should be these horrible RPI games. It makes the schedule fairly tough, but with the exception of the regional games (Dayton, Cinncinnati and Notre Dame), Michigan should be favored in every other game. Sometimes Michigan might match up against an elite mid-major but most years that'll be unlikely.

Locals (play each annually or biennially)

Central Michigan (MAC)

Oakland (Horizon)

Western Michigan (MAC)

Detroit (Horizon)

I think all of these make sense and should be played regularly. Might have to sometimes miss a year here or there to get the schedule to work but should play as often as possible. These teams don't hurt the PRI and actually are good competition. Playing some of these games at the Palace is a good way to have some "road" or "neutral" games where Michigan fans stil outnumber opposing fans.

Regional (play Dayton/Cinncy biennially, ND and random regional)

Dayton (A10)

Cincinatti (American)

Notre Dame (ACC)

The A10 and the American are both solid confrences. Playing potential A10/American champions and/or tournament regulars is a nice RPI boost. These games also get you media coverage in Ohio and Wisconsin. Dayton has averaged 22 wins the last 4 seasons and has had wins in the last two NCAA tournaments. Cincinnati is supposed to be really good this year (Kenpom has them at #14) but they're normally not that good. Last year they went 23-11, won a #8 seed and beat Purdue in OT in the first/second round. They haven't missed a NCAA tournament since 2010 and they normally have a single digit seed (somewhere between 5 and 9 normally). If you beat Cincinatti it's a good win (especially if it's on the road). If you lose, it doesn't hurt your rankings much. 

Notre Dame is somewhat difficult to schedule in advance with the ACC/B10 challenge. Obviously can't play them twice in a season. Maybe they could get a deal done with the ACC and B10 to make sure Michigan and ND never face off in the challenge when they're already scheduled. They should have an annual match with ND just to keep the rivalry alive while we wait for the football and hockey rivalries to continue.

I'd like to build up a rivaly with these schools and possible other regional schools like DePaul, Marquette, Butler, Toledo, Valpo, Illinois St., etc. Trading Dayton and Cinni off and adding other regionals when it works gives Michigan a nice regional footprint and adds some spice to the OOC.

A10 Confrence (play one a season, besides Dayton)

The A10 gets it's own section because 1) I always forget it's a Power 7 and listed it before in the mid-majors, 2) they have a bunch of good but not great teams and 3) we never really face these teams outside of tournaments.

The A10 has good team and if we rotate playing various A10 teams it would be a good move for the schedule in terms of both excitment and RPI. It would keep the schedule fresh with new teams on the schedule while guaranting, as much as possible, matchups with teams that have good RPIs. Also, the A10 gives Michigan alums on the East Coast (George Mason, VCU, Rhode Island, George Washington, or St. Joseph's.) and St. Louis (West Virginia of the A10) a chance to see the team. That's always a plus.

Mid Majors (play each confrence once)

Missouri Valley: Wichita State, Northern Iowa, Evansville, Illinois St., Loyala Chicago, etc. Gives Michigan another regional game (except Wichita) and gives us some good mid-majors. Half this conference is ranked 150 or above in the RPI with 3 in the top 75 of Kenpom's rankings. 

Mountain West: Boise St., San Diego St., Fresno St., Colorado St., UNLV, New Mexico and Utah State all give Michigan intriguing games. Also, it allows alumni out west to see Michigan when they're on the road. 

West Coast Confrence: A very good mid-major confrence with Gonzaga, BYU, St. Mary's, Pepperdine, etc. Normally the WCC has a couple of tournament teams (between 2 and 3 a year) which means good RPI numbers. Gives Michigan alums more chances out west. Michigan doesn't often play these teams so it'd add more intrigue to the schedule.