This Week's Obsession: Most Irreplaceable Comment Count

Seth

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Michigan can't afford to lose their best back you say? [Upchurch]

Following a good laugh over one of those offseason #content lists where they name random skill position players at recognizable schools, we thought maybe a real answer might be good for, you know, an offseason #content list. So:

So who IS Michigan's most irreplaceable starter?*​

David: In most years, I think there would be a few clear-cut, shining star answers.  And while Michigan’s ceiling would not be as high without some of its premiere talent, I’m not sure those particular players are the most irreplaceable. Let’s try a Top 3, this time…

1. Mason Cole. He’s played LT for 2 years and has done a very solid job despite not being ideally-sized for that position. Now, it appears he will be starting at center, which just tells you how much smart of a player he is. Michigan basically has four proven OL starters, one highly-rated probably starter, and a couple of depth guys that no one really knows how they’ll turn out. Losing Cole would mean that everyone more-or-less has to be a hit in their respective positions. That COULD happen…but will it? Ehhhhh…I don’t know. Losing anyone else on the OL and Cole can move if it would allow M to put its best five on the field.

2. John O’Korn. Ok, this miiiiiiight be a reach, but I’m going off of some potential and I get to be the guy on the staff that goes rogue sometimes. I do think that JOK has the highest ceiling on the team in a position that does not quite have the depth…yet. I think we still need one more season of injury-luck in this department before the options absolutely explode. There is still some uncertainty with him, obviously, but he’s shown the physical [in]tangibles to have some backing for what he can do…in addition to belief in QB development under Harbaugh. Plus, like mobility, etc. Perhaps Speight would be adequate –or even successful- enough, but I’m personally not sold, yet.

3. Jabrill Peppers. I’ve been arguing with a buddy about this spot for a while, now. What it came down to for me is that Peppers is the backup everything on this team. I actually believe if he had to play guard or weak-side end for a couple plays, he would hold his own.  Seriously though, in addition to Peppers playing his 5 positions on the field where you know he’ll line up and be awesome, he could potentially take over a starting role at 3-4 of them and there would be very little drop off from the nominal starter. On most teams, Peppers would be the cornerstone of any defense. And while he is certainly important, this defense is SO deep that he do almost whatever is needed and not be depended on to do one certain responsibility…in addition to being to handle most single-position responsibilities. Get it?

[After the JUMP: offseason #content, plus Rashan Gary's hudl highlights are embedded again]

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Seth: I bitched when we came up with the question that we'll all agree on Cole. So I'm ignoring the question and answering the opposite. Let's just say an evil deity came down and said Michigan is going to lose one and only one starter, and it can't be a fullback or any other part-timer, or "the winner of X position battle." And then he asked me to make it a gimmicky top five because evil Sophie's Choice gods are evil like that. Here's who we'd probably survive:

5. Bryan Mone. The 2nd NT is a starting position, but Michigan was fine last year until they lost Glasgow too. Mone's got one injury redshirt so this would just make him eligible for a 6th year, provided he recovers again. Glasgow-Mone is an awesome 1-2 punch, but living with Glasgow and Hurst (who should be a 3-tech) at NT wasn't so bad last year, and living with Mone through 2019 might make that up.

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Slot doesn't count as a starter on a Harbaughffense but Grant Perry should do fine if Michigan loses their #1 H-receiver. [Fuller]

4. Either safety. I think Kinnel can play either position, and a medshirt on Thomas or Hill would give the 2017 defense two non-underclassman warm bodies instead of one. But losing one means you can't lose another all year.

3. Non-Mason Cole OL. As long as you have Cole you can play your 6th offensive lineman wherever he's best suited. Hate to lose Mags/Braden/Kalis after all the time they've played together, but I don't see any of those three as an NFL guy.

2. Hurst. He may be the best option at 3-tech but never have there been so many good ones. If Quick Burst Mo Hurst goes out you can still put together a really good season with a combination of Mone/Wormley/Gary/Godin/Taco at 3- and 5-tech.

1. De'Veon Smith. Yes, the guy CBS put No. 16 in the country. This is less a knock on Smith and more about depth at RB and what non-Fournette/Elliott type can get you versus other options. Last year Pro Football Focus had Heisman candidate RBs Christian McCaffrey and Leonard Fournette at +32.4 and +32.2 for the season. For comparison, Joey Bosa was twice that, and Jourdan Lewis was +21.7. So what's the difference between Smith and some really good backup options?

We'd miss Smith's blocking and trucking, but you can have a very good team with Drake Johnson, and hit a very high ceiling with Ty Isaac, and might have a four-year starter in one of the true freshmen. Michigan is worse without Smith, but that's true for any starter.

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BLF_2735

Call it what you want: nickel, SS, SLB, Money, Jaguar, Tractor, Pup, whatever. Peppers has it down. [Fuller]

Adam: If we're looking for one irreplaceable starter, it's Jabrill Peppers. He's like guacamole: so perfect in so many roles. Need a "linebacker" who can sit in the flat and snack on screens? Peppers can do it. Looking for a dip that pairs nicely with those leftover blue corn tortilla chips somebody brought to your barbecue? Guacamole can do it. Need a Dude who can carry a slot receiver down the field? Peppers has that guy locked up. Looking for a condiment that will get you to gladly buy an $8 burrito just so you can spend one more dollar to add it? Guacamole's got that locked down.

Noah Furbush has garnered praise from the coaching staff, and when they bring someone up unprompted I believe that he's truly doing well. If he sees 40 snaps this season, I'm sure things will go smoothly. The problem is we really don't have a good feel for how he'd do with anything resembling significant playing time, so right now the drop-off between Peppers and Furbush is significant enough that I think it pushes Peppers over Lewis in terms of importance.

That's without even considering Peppers' importance on special teams and offense; the yards he saves when he teleports to the ball on fair catches and the inevitability of him breaking one make him irreplaceable in that phase as well. Look at what Charles Woodson did against Ohio State in 1997 and you'll see why I have a hard time putting anyone above Peppers on this list.

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Ace: I’ll keep this quick, since this is already getting long. Gimmicky top five, ahoy.

5. Amara Darboh/Jehu Chesson. Michigan has two excellent starting receivers, an emerging slot-type in Grant Perry, and very little in the way of depth. Drake Harris and Moe Ways both could break out, but we don’t have much to go on with either save for recruiting hype and the occasional practice report. After that, it’s all freshmen, who notoriously struggle to make an early impact at the position.

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Michigan has some very good corners if they lose Lewis, but none are on Jourdan's level. [Barron]

4. Ben Gedeon/Mike McCray. While the defensive line and secondary should mitigate the need for the linebackers to be outstanding, the prospect of throwing a true freshman into the starting lineup—or a guy who played H-back last year—isn’t an enticing one.

3. Jourdan Lewis. Michigan could still field a quality duo with Clark/Stribling, but it’s hard to overstate the value of a true shutdown corner.

2. Mason Cole. The real point of concern on the O-line, depth-wise, is at tackle; between David Dawson and Patrick Kugler, Michigan should be able to come up with something half-decent if they need to replace someone on the interior. Cole isn’t just Michigan’s best lineman, however—he’s also their most versatile, and would certainly move out to tackle if Newsome or Magnuson exits the lineup. Losing Cole would put a ton of pressure on both his replacement at center and Newsome, as well as putting the O-line one injury away from potential disaster.

1. Jabrill Peppers. There’s nobody who can replace what he brings to the team. He’d probably rank this high for his role on defense alone. Add in his contributions to offense and special teams and he’s #1 with a bullet.

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Brian: This is long enough already that I should probably just agree with people. I agree.

BiSB: The people demand HOT TAEKS.

Alex: Hot take: we go 6-6 if De'Veon Smith goes down. Just CANNOT lose that guy.

BiSB: Hotter take: Michigan's most indispensable player was Willie Henry. The season is already doomed.

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Special teams can swing a game you know. [Fuller]

Brian: I will say that any noise tackle shaped object going down will make me start planning an invasion of Heaven. I am so so so sick of confronting OSU's murderball offense with a converted DE playing nose tackle. And just because Michigan has two of them doesn't mean that spot is secure. NT is a spot with two starters.

Bubble wrap for Glasgow and Mone, stat.

Ace: Serious, semi-hot take: Kenny Allen is more indispensable to this team than De’Veon Smith. (That’s going to read as bashing Smith but freshman kickers scare the crap out of me.)

Alex: 100% of all special teams snaps > 40% (or whatever) of RB snaps. Plus the gap between Smith and friends is pretty small.

BiSB: Getting to the OSU game with Glasgow/Mone, Hurst/Wormley,  and Taco/Gary intact would make me Happy Panda. But if you asked me to strike one down, I genuinely don't know which I'd choose.

Ace: I… I think it might be Gary? Which seems INSANE.

Alex: I'd probably give up ligaments / joints / whatever for any of them. I'm trying really really hard not to just assume that Gary will be a Suh-like impact player by the end of his Michigan career.

BiSB:

Give in to your feelings.

Comments

funkifyfl

May 25th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^

Ace wrote this: "After that, it’s all freshmen, who notoriously struggle to make an early impact at the position."

 

And it caught my attention because one could argue the opposite is true in making the jump from NCAA to NFL. As to a larger point, how does this compare across positions? In other words, what positions have the biggest discrepancy between being able to make an early impact in college vs. the NFL.

stephenrjking

May 25th, 2016 at 4:46 PM ^

Actually, this is wrong. Rookie receivers traditionally have a hard time performing at elite levels in their rookie years. Only Randy Moss and Odell Beckham Jr. have really bucked that trend. Virtually every other great receiver that you can think of had a rookie season that was statistically unimpressive relative to the bulk of their careers. Neither Jerry Rice nor Calvin Johnson, for example, caught 50 passes in their rookie seasons.

funkifyfl

May 25th, 2016 at 4:56 PM ^

I have no idea how to enter a table here, but this data (feel free to slam the methodology, I don't stand behind it) shows that WR is the 3rd most likely position for NFL rookies to make an impact (RB is far and away #1, LB is #2, and WR is #3). https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2013/04/23/at-which-positio…

 

Even still, I'd be curious if there's any interesting data regarding ability of rookies/freshmen to make an impact in the NFL vs. NCAA by position.

stephenrjking

May 25th, 2016 at 5:52 PM ^

What the table actually says, using PFR's approximate value stat (that treats the OL pretty brutally FWIW), is that of the 100 best post-merger seasons registered by rookies, 13 were by wide receivers. That's decent, not great.

Most of the guys that did well were average players that fit into perfect niches, like Terry Glenn in New England in 1996. Even Randy Moss, dominant though he was (by far the best WR rookie season by this metric) benefited from playing on one of the all-time great offenses.

Mostly experience and statistics tell me that expecting prime-level performance from rookie receivers is foolish. A guy like OBJ will occasionally come along, but more frequently you will see future greats turning in decidely average rookie years. Terrell Owens getting 35 catches, Julio Jones catching 54, Michael Irvin 32, Larry Fitzgerald 58. Or worse, as in Herman Moore and Steve Smith; 11 and 10 catches, respectively.

Breaking into the NFL is hard.

Lanknows

May 25th, 2016 at 6:30 PM ^

Expecting prime-level performance from ANY rookie is foolish.  Receivers are roughly 9% of starters (2/22) so if they are really 13% of the top 100 that indicates they aren't any slower to develop than other positions.

There's anectodal evidence to either side for every position.

canzior

May 26th, 2016 at 9:43 AM ^

Receivers are also dependent on QB ability to be successful.  To really take a look, you would have to look at the qb situation they were drafted into. 

And Randy Moss wasn't drafted into a dynamic offense, they BECAME dynamic because he was such a talent.

The biggest transitions in the NFL at WR are route running and separation, which is easier at the college level.  Julio was always an athletic freak, so was Moss.  But guys that are 6'1 needs to run excellent routes and be quick twitch because every corner in your division is better than 10 of 12 teams you played in college.

King Douche Ornery

May 26th, 2016 at 9:28 AM ^

Let the guy have his Message Board Guy Anomaly I Win the Internets day in the sun!

I....must....make...the...exception...the ...rule.....

Lanknows

May 25th, 2016 at 4:39 PM ^

I'm not sure we have a good 5th-best OLmen, let alone a 6th-best OLmen. An injury to any starter might mean playing a true freshman again and that's...bad.

I buy that Cole is #1 (despite the position change) but Braden, Magnuson, and Kalis aren't far behind him. The dropoff from a competant 5th year senior to, say Dawson or Bredeson, is probably severe. Especially for a veteran unit that should be coming together in their second season under Drevno.

stephenrjking

May 25th, 2016 at 4:42 PM ^

I said in the thread that my thought was Peppers. Not just for his immense talent, or even for all of the different things he can do, but because (at least, in last year's scheme) he's the lynchpin that allows the defense to play the way it does everywhere on the field. Without him you not only have someone with far less talent, but also someone else playing in a role that is suboptimal. 

I feel bad for how Deveon has to be deprecated in this "irreplaceable" concept, but the idea is just absurd. Except for the very best RBs (and there are two, maybe three guys like that in the country, and perhaps two or three total on the NFL level) the position just doesn't provide much difference between the starter and an "average" player. It would stink big time if Smith weren't able to play, but there are at least a couple of guys who can be 80-90% of what he is ready to go. 

There are several players we expect to start for whom that is not the case.

BursleysFinest

May 25th, 2016 at 4:45 PM ^

Don't think it can be Peppers because of that Florida game.  Dude is going to do big things this year, but Michigan already showed that this defense could step up in a big game without him.   

stephenrjking

May 25th, 2016 at 4:49 PM ^

I will grant that the Florida game does give some pause, but there were two factors working in our favor: First, Florida's offense was abominable for the last half of the season and they could barely score against anybody. Second, there was some behavior trouble on Florida and my best guess is that the bowl game was a classic motivational mismatch, where one team is fragile and/or half-hearted while the other is ready to tear walls down. Think the RichRod Gator Bowl for another example.

 

Sleepy

May 25th, 2016 at 6:09 PM ^

...with my little brother (a UF fan). Their offense, after Will Grier got suspended, was an unmitigated tire fire of awful. Imagine the 2008 version of Nick Sheridan, only without the Minnesota game.

MGoBat

May 25th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^

I love that the advertisement I got for the Gary highlight reel is for Animal Planet's Monsters Week. I hope that Gary is the monster in college that he was in high school.

drjaws

May 25th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^

highlight or circle a player on the highlight tapes so you don't miss him . . . but Gary doesn't need this.

 

See the big guy in the backfield every play?  That's Rashan.

getsome

May 25th, 2016 at 5:07 PM ^

garys obviously a gifted kid and his entire tape impresses but the reaction of # 74 at 0:31 had me laughing - it only seems logical for that poor overmatched OL to throw his arms up in the air and skake his head in defeat (either that or laugh / cry)  after gary destroys his double team and swallows RB for TFL

ST3

May 25th, 2016 at 5:30 PM ^

That's the first time I've watched that. I've got to say, I'm a little disappointed. I thought he was going to be 7 feet tall. And not once did I see him consume a quarterback with fireballs from his eyes, and lighting bolts from his arse.

turd ferguson

May 25th, 2016 at 5:44 PM ^

We're gonna be really fucking good this year.

We have top-end talent (Lewis, Butt, Peppers, etc.), depth, experience, elite coaching, and on and on.  I can't believe how quickly we moved from 5-7 to this.

Lanknows

May 25th, 2016 at 5:54 PM ^

1. Cole

2. Braden

3. Chesson

4. Magnuson

5. Peppers

 

Honorable Mention:

Lewis: The best individual player on the team, but the defense (and especially the secondary and especially especially corners) are so loaded that they can replace a starter and still be really good. There are 6 guys who are legitimate candidates to get drafted in the secondary - missing any one wouldn't hurt the D too bad. Peppers gets the nod over Lewis due to positional versatility and special teams/offense contributions.

Gedeon: ILB is the one defensive spot (depending on your speculation re: Brown's deployment of SAM/WDE) that is NOT loaded. McCray's a much bigger question mark since Gedeon's been getting snaps for 3 years now, even with veterans ahead of him.

Butt: Would be missed quite badly, but there are so many TEs and Harbaugh is so proven at coaching them that it would be hard to worry too much.

Allen: Losing him might hurt the punting game more than PK, where I think he's a bit of a placeholder despite last-year's steadiness.

Smith: his value is conditional on the OL's ability to run-block. If they don't improve from being one of the worst run-blocking units in the country (per Opportunity Rate), or if one of the starters is lost, then his ability to generate yardage on his own (via tackle-breaking) is critical.  If the OL can run-block consistently then backups (who might offer more big play potential) can replace him without a huge dropoff. Smith was underrated last year by Michigan fans and continues to be this year (IMO... and I think Harbaugh/Drevno's too).

Darboh: Important player but he's not anywhere close to the game-breaking threat Chesson is and Michigan already has an excellent possesion-receiver in Butt.  With Perry, Harris, Ways, and about 20 freshman, Michigan could replace Darboh without the offense having to be modified dramatically. Not so for Chesson.

Kalis:  I said my piece about the OL above. Depth is a huge worry.  Improving the run game is a must if we want to beat MSU and OSU and I don't think it's happening without continuity and experience. Kalis has come in for a lot of much-deserved criticism, but it can be so so much worse (ask Devin Gardner). The OL made huge strides in pass blocking last year and Kalis is part of that.

TickerTape

May 25th, 2016 at 6:09 PM ^

Peppers is great and all but Florida would disagree with anyone about his irreplaceability. In my opinion Mason Cole is the #1 candidate for this slot. If he's gone center is scary.

The Mad Hatter

May 25th, 2016 at 6:18 PM ^

I can feel it. Also I know a guy who knows a guy and that guy says JOK is too reckless with his decision making and doesn't protect the football the way Coach likes.

Year of Revenge II

May 25th, 2016 at 6:50 PM ^

Openly root for him if you wish, but I predict that JOK starts more games than Speight this season and JOK probably starts against Hawaii, and I do not know anybody of any consequence to the decision. I have observed a few quarterbacks in my day though. I am confident the best quarterback will play even if it turns out to be Morris or Peters, but my money is on JOK.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Year of Revenge II

May 25th, 2016 at 8:55 PM ^

We feel the same then.

If Speight is truly ahead at this point (and I do not know if I would believe anything put out there this far in advance---factual? motivational? etc.), I suppose he has earned some seniority points for the work he has put in, and it seems coaching confidence in him has grown; but I think you are going to see the more mobile guy eventually if not initially as the starter once the coaches trust his decision making.  His arm probably has higher upside than Speight's also.  

Hard for me to see JOK not passing Speight as gametime draws near if he is really behind---or maybe Speight is the next Grbac type, but it doesn't look that way to me.  If it is Speight, then I am solidly behind him.  Reps given seem to rule out Morris and Peters at this point in time, but you never know, they are both talented. 

We'll see.  

Champeen

May 26th, 2016 at 8:29 AM ^

Speights short passing accuracy, and mobility within the pocket were pretty damn impressive.  I have already at a crocodile because i stated before that he would never get a meaningful snap - lifetime backup. 

This kid improved beyond what i thought was possible.  From my limitied veiwing of him and JOK, i have Speight starting at this point.  He was fairly impressive.

kevin holt

May 25th, 2016 at 6:34 PM ^

This makes me realize yet again how precarious our OL depth is. We could easily be in MSU's situation last year. No, not the fact that they made the playoffs---the fact that their OL was extremely hobbled at certain points. Our depth might be worse after the starters. Is it too late to get a couple grad transfers? Seriously. This could be the one thing holding us back which is so frustrating.

turd ferguson

May 25th, 2016 at 7:25 PM ^

You're overstating how dire the OL situation is.  We return four starters with a ton of experience.  It's true that a couple of injuries could create major problems, but that's true for just about every team at one position or another.  And some of the reserves this year are probably a lot better than we realize.  2017 could be a different story, but if this is our weakest link (and I don't think it is), that's pretty damn good.

Mr. Elbel

May 25th, 2016 at 7:59 PM ^

my question in a thread became This Week's Obsession! I feel completely validated. Also...this wasn't actually that long and it's OT season so PLEASE don't shorten the actual football #content

MichiganTeacher

May 25th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

I would put it like this:

Peppers is a unique talent. Being unique, he's irreplaceable. But not necessarily indispensable.

Cole can more closely be approximated - maybe. But even so, in my opinion, there aren't enough people who can approximate him well enough, or do enough other things well, to make up for his loss. Not in the way that we could try to shift and compensate for losing Peppers.

So I'd put Cole 1 and Peppers 2. After that, I'd list Lewis. True lockdown corner is a fantastic luxury.

Then... I'd say Glasgow. Until Mone proves himself, I'll probably be clinging to Glasgow like a security blanket. We weren't the same last year after he went down (to state the obvious). And if Mone doesn't prove to be equal to his hype, then I'd list Glasgow probably at #1.

 

The Oracle

May 25th, 2016 at 9:25 PM ^

If it's at all close, I expect that Harbaugh will go with O'Korn. With the 49ers, he had Alex Smith, who was very solid, but eventually went with the big play potential of Kaepernick. I see a parallel here. Also, Rashan Gary will be outstanding from day 1.