WTKA Roundtable Thoughts on McElwain
Brian is pretty down on the McElwain hire, which goes against what many on the MGoBoard think in the thread below.
His points center around the fact that McElwain is another coordinator thrown into the pot rather than a specific skill position coach, awkward (shark thing and weird Florida press conferences) and poor Florida recruiting AT Florida (which is hard to do).
The roundtable is still collectively down on Drevno and baffled regarding Michigan's Oline issues for the past 3 years. They also hope that Warinner has a big influence on the line this upcoming year.
It feels like we're in the twilight zone when Brian is the most negative guy on the roundtable.
Craig with the bold prediction of Newsome starting tackle next season as well with Hudson on the other side.
Speight is looking at schools ranging from oSu to Texas Tech.
A caller brings up a question on whether Harbaugh's odd approach to offense is hindering Michigan from hiring a bonafide offensive coach.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:30 PM ^
Thank you.
The Peter Principle applies so much in coaching. Individuals are promoted often based on their past success as a position coach and OC, but their past success may not prove to be valuable for the promotion they are seeking.
Think The Office, Michael Scott was an incredible salesman, the best one at Dunder Mifflin. He was promoted to Regional Manager not because he had good management skills, but due to past success as a salesman.
February 15th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^
I've thought this for a long time. Coaching an OL is probably the most difficult and time consuming position on a staff. Adding that to having draw up a gameplan and call plays is probably overwhelming. Hopefully the OL production will be better now that Drevno is able to focus on that.
I would rather have Warriner as the OL coach, but I think this is a move in the right direction.
February 15th, 2018 at 1:19 PM ^
I don't know why people feel compelled to make excuses for Drevno. His resume and history as an OL coach is impeccable? Have you watched the last three years of Michigan football?
February 15th, 2018 at 12:29 PM ^
Well, we all loved the Nuss hire 4 years ago, and boy were we wrong. Not as much enthusiasm here now...hopefully we're wrong again?
February 15th, 2018 at 1:02 PM ^
Doug Nussmeier was shoved away from Alabama to get Lane Kiffin. Jim McElwain was promoted to a HC position at CSU, he wasn't kicked out the door by Saban.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
I agree that Brian's (and even Ace - with his vitriole towards fans and tweeting) attitude is offputting. Personally it will take a long time for the stench of that "Whatever" post and the constant complaints about the very fans who support his site to wear off. I generally think of Brian as insightful, but he and Ace seem oblivious that Twitter brings out the idiots. I'm not a Twitter user, and even I am picking up on how much it affects those two. If you're going to take Twittering seriously it's probably best to not have Twitter.
The page views have to have taken a hit with longtime Michigan fans. I don't check this site nearly as often as I used to, nor do others that I speak with personally. There are other sites that have been filling in with football-based news lately, and if this new-look continues then more will keep cropping up.
February 15th, 2018 at 2:59 PM ^
Ace is the smartest guy on twitter, just ask him.
Brian is the face of the site so I can see where he could get fed up with everyone offering their opinions and insights.
February 15th, 2018 at 7:22 PM ^
Never been a big fan of shitting on the fans or mgo community. All walks of life have assholes as residents in varying capacity. For Ace, some of the fans he likes to hate on surely helped donate to his worthy fundraiser, so you can’t have it both ways.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:33 PM ^
This was the youngest or one of teams in D1 last fall. This isn't hoop where you can replace vets with freshman and hope things keep moving. Once the OL and QB situations are settled, things will be fine and moving back in the right direction.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:55 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 1:45 PM ^
Exactly. Awful past quarterback recruiting is what kept us from 10 wins this season, even with the extremely young team. That was the difference between us and MSU. They had a QB and we didn't.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^
EDIT: Sorry, this was meant to be a response to DelMarBlue.
Hoke was not a coordinator until the Oregon job. Any comparison between McElwain and Hoke as coordinators would be apples and oranges.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:39 PM ^
So much to digest here:
- Brian's negativity and avoidance of all things football lately is concerning. When Spring Practice starts I hope he is back to his usual stuff with some realistic if not positive coverage......but I'm concerned.
- Hiring McElwain itself is somewhat of a disappointment. He isn't a recruiting expert, his Florida years are a stain, and his personality isn't easy to like.
- Demoting Pep & Drevno is a positive. They can focus on what they do best and improve the two areas we most sucked last year....and this is their last chance before being shown the door.
- One theory I have is that Harbaugh was hoping Pep and/or Drevno would get a new job this offseason so he could replace them without firing them. When that didn't happen he had to come up with this new plan to demote them and bring in someone to help.
- Hiring an old ex-HC in this position might be a function of needing a quick fix for 2018. He is also hiring someone outside of his coaching tree for once on offense - something that might be beneficial.
- I think I like the idea of Mcelwain more than Enos or Cameron.
- Thanks for the heads up about Brian's attitude on this round table - now I don't have to listen.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 1:12 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 12:52 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 12:55 PM ^
I thought Brian's best comment was about having too many playcallers on the offense already, and how its was a giant bumblefk (my own words) that needs to be completely upgraded, so I understand his apprehension.
However I'm fairly optimistic simply because this issue was addressed by Harbaugh at the end of the season. I'm not saying that he has a plan, or that McElwain is a large part of it, or how that fits in, but the logical thing to do would be to make that a priority focus.
February 15th, 2018 at 12:59 PM ^
Plus McElwain has had very good offenses as an OC (#1 offense in Big Sky Conference @ Montana State, Fresno State averaged almost 40ppg against Power 5 teams in 2007, and success at Alabama without a top flight QB). I get the concerns after coaching Florida, but he actually has good QBs to work with here. I think that if he would've kept Will Grier, he would still be coaching Florida.
Also, if he's coaching WR's as well, I can live with that. He coached Tom Brady's first go-to receiver (Deion Branch) at Louisville.
This would be considered an excellent hire if not for the 2017 season.
February 15th, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^
I can't speak for Brian, but I feel his "whatever" attitude. I am convinced that if Harbaugh can't make this program nationally competitive, no one can. However, I'm have this creeping sense that "no one" may in fact be the correct answer for the forseeable future.
I think we'd all agree that round about the year 2000 Michigan's approach to football got a little stale. Jim Tressel's Buckeyes consistently beating us with fundamentally (at least on the field) the same approach rubbed our noses in it. We've been trying to address the issue, but our parade of bad decisions, bad luck, and unrealistic expectations totally disconnected from recent seasons has weighed the program down. There may no be any way to get back to what we remember in one coaching regime.
Let's talk coaching hires. RichRod, the hot young coach who was going to install a modern college football offense, and change everything that annoyed us about the Bo and Mike Debord offenses. When he crashed and burned, we thought it was a cultural mismatch thing, so we hired Bady Hoke, a Michigan Man who understood the traditions and would run "man ball." When he crashed and burned, we went all in on Jim Harbaugh, who we thought combined all the best qualities of what we thought we'd get with RichRod and Hoke: creative offensive mind, QB whisperer, power run enthusiast, M alumni who consciously copied Bo's approach to the school's traditions. We now have the third coaching regime in a row that in its third season has become inexplicably terrible at the very things it was supposed to do better than any other program. If there is another approach to hiring a HC, aside from the George Cstanza "opposite" approach, I can't imagine what it is.
I think the program is weighed down by all our expectations that we will be what we were in the 90s, and it will be as effortless as it was in the 90s. "This is Michigan fergodssake!" It's bad enough that a 10 win season that includes a loss to Ohio State and no shot at a Rose Bowl is still considered a disappointment. Now let's factor in how unlucky we've been to not even stumble in to one of those things. I haven't searched the records, but since Tressel was hired, I believe that Michigan State, Penn State including the pedophile sanctions era, Iowa under Ferentz leadership, and Wisconsin all have more wins over the Buckeyes than Michigan does. Even if we're bad, we should have gotten lucky more often than that. As far as making the B1G Championship game, we got nothing, while Wisconsin made it with a 4 loss season (because the two teams in front of them had a post season ban), Penn State made it the same season we routed them by over 40 points, and heck, even RichRod won the Pac12 South once. Again even if we're bad, we should have gotten lucky more often than that.
Saying all of that, the football program is in a deep, dark pit. We all think that any competent head coach can just levitate the team 30' into the air, and take us away from all of that, because "this is Michigan fergodssakes." You know who are the only people around the program who don't think that? The recruits and the current players; they weren't even alive the last time Michigan had two consequetive seasons of being nationally relevant.
So, I still think it's possible that Jimmy H has some more magic tricks in his bag, and with a little regression to the mean on luck, the big blue machine will get rolling again. But I also have to admit there is a part of me that thinks maybe the difference between Michigan's recruiting and the SEC and OSU teams that consistently reload is bagmen. Maybe the reason Michigan can't coach up its 4-stars as well as MSU's 3-stars is steroids. I'm not even sure I want to play the game if that is what it takes to be nationally relevant.
OK, call me Denethor. I'll go home and watch Schindler's List on continuous reel now.
February 15th, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 2:53 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 3:56 PM ^
I think this year will be a blip and we'll see the return of 2016-2017 level recruiting classes. Bama was able to topple Urban Meyer's Florida "machine" with less than top ten classes. Then again, I did say we shouldn't try to compare ourselves to Bama, so..... I still think Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and Dabo Swinney at Clemson is a fair comparison. It may take some time, but when (not if) Harbaugh has a game changing, Deshaun Watson-type talent at QB, sky's the limit.
February 15th, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 1:34 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 7:29 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 1:34 PM ^
McElwain spent 18 years coaching WRs before he became an OC. He’s going to be coaching WRs here while (possibly) being OC. I don’t see the problem with it honestly.
He was a successful OC at Fresno State in 2007 with the 37th ranked offense in the country which is why Saban hired him in the first place after Major Applewhite failed.
Unlike Nuss and Kiffin, McElwain wasn’t pushed out. Saban liked him as his coordinator. He, Saban, and Smart helped build the Bama machine.
Brian simply just doesn’t like him because of how he reacted to the shark thing.
Alls I’m gonna say is this for people comparing McElwain and Nussmeier:
McElwain was a success at Fresno State. McElwain was a success at Alabama. McElwain was a success at Colorado State. McElwain was a failure at Florida.
Nuss was a success at Alabama. Nuss was a failure at Michigan. Nuss was a failure at Florida.
Nuss’ offenses at Washington:
2009: 74
2010: 69
2011: 38
Big jump his last season there. I believe Sark was the HC.
His offenses at Bama:
2012: 19
2013: 32
2014 Michigan: 115
McElwain at Alabama:
2008: 41
2009: 15
2010: 22
2011: 30
Bama’s offense in 2007 led by Applewhite I believe was 62.
February 15th, 2018 at 1:58 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 2:31 PM ^
2013: 13
2014: 18
February 15th, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 3:35 PM ^
Play in the Mountain West so they do play BOise every year.
His first year at CSU they beat Colorado and Hawaii and onthing much else.
2013 they got destroyed by Alabama. But most their other games they scored around 30 points and lost because the other team scored like 40. They beat Washington State in their bowl game.
2014 they beat Colorado again and Boston College.
February 15th, 2018 at 2:01 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 2:44 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 5:17 PM ^
Just looking at the total offense numbers don't take pacing and opposition into account. McElwain looks even more impressive when you use the fancystats:
Bama Pre-McElwain:
#56 total OFEI not available
#67 OFEI --> Saban year 1
------------------------
Bama McElwain
#14 OFEI
#6 OFEI
#6 OFEI
#7 OFEI
CSU Pre-McElwain:
#103 OFEI
#112 OFEI
---------------------------------
CSU McElwain:
#120 OFEI
#68 OFEI
#11 OFEI
February 15th, 2018 at 1:58 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 2:06 PM ^
February 16th, 2018 at 12:32 AM ^
But he was fired, mid-season even. And it was ugly with alleged death threats involved.
February 15th, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 9:32 PM ^
"down on" is completely different thatn "down with"?
February 15th, 2018 at 2:43 PM ^
Go team!!
February 15th, 2018 at 6:20 PM ^
Listening to this podcast and I must say this is not Brian's finest hour. It's frankly an unwarranted personal attack on another human being that's borderline mean. Please stop.
February 15th, 2018 at 6:33 PM ^
Craig is the only one even trying to offer some substance. Sam takes forever to spit out a simple point, which eats up much of the guests' opportunities to speak.
Brian is nothing more than a troll here, and a terribly unfunny one. Which is a pretty sad sentence to write.
February 15th, 2018 at 7:04 PM ^
To me McElwain is an upgrade over Enos. McElwain may have more bagage with his reputation but I think he will do a good job with our WRs and add in some passing plays into Harbaugh's offense. I was hoping that Harbaugh would just go out and get the best OC in the country and let him run the offense. But I'll take this instead of having Drevo and Pep be the only OCs.
February 15th, 2018 at 7:27 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 7:28 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 8:13 PM ^
February 15th, 2018 at 7:43 PM ^
To me, suggests the reason for the poor offesnse runs deeper than youth and backup QBs. UM with 11 freshman and a 5th string QB should have more pass tds than Navy.
This gives me hope Harbaugh pinpoited the issue and made the moves to get it moving back in the correct direction. Hopefully, the '17 OL class develops and the O runs more smoothly next year.