Speight vs Peters: Final Spring Practice
I know this conversation will probably drag on for a while and it's still purely speculation at this point, so if you're already over it don't read any furter.
With that said, although I do still think Speight is probably #1 on the depth chart right now due to age, experience, and a number of quality games last year (with some bad ones too), based on what I've seen so far in the spring, and in particularl the last spring practice video, Peters looks way better than Speight.
Speight often threw to one WR without looking at other options. Speight often through into traffic or good coverage, rarely completed his passes, and did not use any head, eye, or ball fakes to decieve his intentions to the defense.
Peters on the other hand looked sharp, completed most of his passes, and found open recievers quickly. Caveots apply. I don't know who was playing defense on those recievers or even who most of the recievers were at the time other than the TEs that were easy to spot. And, it wasn't live so the QBs knew they weren't going to get hit. But, based on what I'm seeing this spring, Peters may be our guy next year unless there is a big swing in how these guys are performing in practice. I don't see Harbaugh as the kind of coach to just give it to Speight based on last year if he's being out-performed by Peters in practice.
For those who haven't seen the video, here's the link from Scout:
http://www.scout.com/college/michigan/story/1774977-watch-u-m-s-final-s…
You do bench the starting QB if he doesn't improve and his backup proves to be better, it doesn't matter if he went 5-7 or 10-3. Speight will not start just because he's the incumbent, that's not how Harbaugh does things.
it DOES matter if Michigan went 5-7 or 10-3. You don't fucking bench a starting QB who led you to a 10 win season. Harbaugh would lose his locker room if that is the case. You really don't understand the team dynamic that comes into play. There are a lot of players behind Speight as their man.
the team dynamic is something Harbaugh should consider when picking a QB. If he lose his locker room, it's not a good thing. Teammates would support a QB who led them to a 10 win season and NY6 bowl berth. They rather keep the commodity as opposed to unknown. Even then Peters isn't slated to start at QB
You have no idea what the locker room is like nor the players attitudes. Harbaugh has made it clear to us that he has made it clear to the team that it is a meritocracy. How do you think the players would feel if peters was clearly better but Speight started?
Also, lets quit acting like a 10 win season is anything special. You could also say Michigan shit the bed against a mediocre iowa, gave away a pretty solid lead and then lost to a very very young ohio state team, then lost their bowl game to a pretty MEH fsu squad. Michigan didn't "win" anything last year. And, Michigan did all of this with all that Senior talent that just got drafted.
no matter what he did last year and trust me the players know who's better as camp goes on. They want to win and want the best players on the field all the time. A coach gets more in trouble, with loosing a locker room, if he starts playing favorites or a guy just because he started the prior year even if he's not the best.
Tavite Pritchard was coming off a year where he threw for 58%, 6.4 ypa, 10 TDs, and 13 INTs. Speight just completed a year where he threw for 62%, 7.7 ypa, 18TDs and 7 INTs. And RS Freshman Andrew Luck wasn't great; he completed 58% of his passes for 13 TDs and 4 INTs at 8.9 ypa. What he had was a Heisman runner-up in Gerhart running for over 1800 yards, something I find unlikely on this team. So unless RS Freshman Peters is going to be as good or better than RS Luck, which seems unlikely, there isn't some incentive on Harbaugh's part to make a switch. He might still, but this isn't replacing a negative on your team with a neutral or slightly positive player.
As for Smith, switching back to the starter in the middle of the year, after he was already dinged with an injury, isn't the same decision-making logic as before the season. Had Kaepernick stumbled down the stretch, I'm sure Harbaugh would have switched back. And then he traded Smith in the off-season (maybe he let him walk, I don't remember), so it wasn't an issue.
My point is, we don't really know how Harbaugh treats QB legacy vs. potential. He's only had to make the choice twice, and one was due to an injury.
Those numbers for RS freshman Luck are pretty solid, especially 8.9 YPA. No we won't have a Heisman runner up at RB, but we will have an embarrassment of receiving talent, which Stanford didn't have that year, so it's a wash IMO.
I'm not saying Speight is as bad as Pritchard was, but he's not exactly Joe Montana either. If Harbaugh thinks Peters is better he will play him. Speight being a returning starter and having game experience is only one factor, not THE factor as some are making it out to be.
He also completed 56% of his passes, which comewhat mutes the ypa because it meant he didn't complete them all that often; I don't have extensive game film, but a couple of the box scores show one or two huge passes (probably on play-action) and not much else. Which is fine; you expect that for a freshman QB. But again, Michigan doesn't have a Heisman contender in the backfield, and I'm not sure if they have anyone as good at Fleener on the team. A lot of the receiving talent are players we all assume will be great, but there's no promise they'll be so in their first year of serious gameplay; nobody would have guess Darboh or Chesson would have been drafted based on 1 year of playing time.
I agree that age alone won't be the deciding factor, but I also don't like that people assume Peters is demonstrably better than a guy we've actually seen play in actual games, against actual, good defenses, because of a spring game.
I think it's a combination of factors with Peters. He's Harbaugh's hand-picked guy (much like Luck was), he was a big time recruit, he's got arm talent and athleticism that Speight doesn't have. All that just came to the forefront in the spring game. Combine that with the fact that Speight set the world on fire against the UCF's and Maryland's of the world, but looked downright mediocre (injured or not) against the better teams we faced, and the prospects of Peters starting this year become very enticing. We would like to avoid Harbaugh starting 0-3 against OSU, can Speight help him do that? Based on last year, it doesn't seem so.
source?
somebody finally makes sense. i love how people are so sure of how peters will perform in real games, but just assume speight will not make a big leap from last year. qbs learn alot from the bad games. just watch.
Based on the spring game and practice reports, Speight hasn't made any kind of leap from last year.
live games are all that matter. and if speight really is not much better then last year, that would fall on the coaching staff, who by the way has a much better idea of the true abilities of these athletes.
Which practice reports say Speight hasn't improved?
The one practice report that matters is JH saying that Speight is ahead of Peters and O'Korn.
the end of the season also featured the best competition he had faced, and he was injured for the OSU game. If that game had been played in AA (or neutral), he would have delivered a 'W.'
Up to that point, he had shown improvement, with the Iowa (night road) game being the one true blemish, IMO.
And one of the guys has a NFL tool set and the other doesn't.
My expectation is that the battle plays out over the season.
Just watched the Orange Bowl again and Speight's last three passes of the season were all terrible, inaccurate ducks. Blah, blah FSU pass rush, whatever. He had time enough to make accurate throws or make better decisions. Dude had a full season under him and those three passes to potentially get us in FG range were awful.
Love the kid because he's Blue, but let's face it - he is not a special talent. Pedestrian at best. Cost us the OSU game as well. He may start this year, but he'll hold us back. Watching his tape in the Spring game and these Rome practices shows zero sign of any "leap."
I'm in Camp Peters because I'd rather go 8-4 rolling the dice on a talent that can actually get us to 12-0 than go 9-3 with almost no shot at 12-0 with Speight.
just better and if he is he will start over Speight. Speight needs to make improvements all the time, as any player does, to keep their starting spot. From the spring game I saw no improvement in Speights game from last year and Peters looked very good.
Who knows what will happen this summer and into fall, but who ever is playing best come September will get the start. I have been saying since last season ended don't be shocked if it's Peters.
The competition will make everyone better and Harbaugh and staff will start the player they feel gives them the best chance to win, whether he is the incumbunt or not.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^
April 30th, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^
April 30th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
April 30th, 2017 at 12:50 PM ^
Speight is 9-0 as a starter when not injured.
Peters hasn't even thrown a pass.
Enough said.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:58 PM ^
you are only seeing what you want to see. how could you have a better opinion of the skill of these qbs then the coaches. and based on your comments you dont know shit about football anyway.
The moment we all found out Speight was ahead of O(ur savior) Korn, people started looking for reasons to not like Speight. He won't be a star, but he is a solid expereinced option. Why anyone wants to replace him and throw a super talented option out there behind an inexperinced, developing line with inexperienced offensive weapons is beyond me. Who knows, maybe people develop between now and the start of the season and we get a Sam Darnold situation on our hands, but now Speigt should be the clear option.
This is 100% rationalizations after the fact. Before the Iowa game, Speight had completed 65% of his passes for 15 TDs, 3INTs, 8.9 ypa, and was 9-0. And he did it facing off against passing defenses ranked 9th (Colorado), 12th (Wiscy), and 19th (UCF) against the pass.
I don't know what people expect out of a QB at Michigan anymore. He missed some throws (which is an incredible simplistic and reductive observation to make; every QB in the world misses easy throws in college), but (a) his receivers also dropped some good deeper throws (particular Darboh, weirdly, since fighting for 50/50 balls was supposed to be a strength), and (b) his offensive line underwhelmed at times and failed to generate solid rushing attacks against above-average defenses (168 against Colorado, 140 yards against Wisconsin, 98 against Iowa, 91 against OSU, 96 against FSU). I was a hell of a lot less inspired by the offensive line or the running backs this year compared to the QB position, and other than Butt and sometimes Darboh, nobody in the passing game really stood out.
If anything, it feels like people only remember the hammering panda and gashing Rutgers and sort of thought this was a vintage Stanford offense under Harbaugh when in fact it wasn't nearly as effective or efficient. Speight probably isn't going to lead you to a championship by himself, but looking at this roster if Michigan could get Speight-level performances from the offensive line and RBs this year, the offense would be demonstrably better.
4 TDs against the #19 pass defense at UCF (when the running attack couldn't do a damn thing), 63% and Wisconsin and the winning score, and not-bad games against OSU and FSU despite getting virtually nothing from the running games (both under 100 yards and 3ypc) and getting sacked 6 times.
Did he struggle at times? Sure. Buy this revisionist history about him is stuppefying to me. But again, I guess I shouldn't be surprised; this is still the place where people lost their mind once he was named starter and only stopped complaing when O'Korn came out and looked absolutely lost.
I'm not a Speight hater but cmong man. "not bad games against OSU". He LOST the game against OSU. Also, invoking a performance against UCF as they have a good pass defense on paper. I'm guessing they had a weak scheule or got run on a lot. UCF isn't an elite defense. Speight also kept the Wisconsin game close by missing a number of deep throws and TD opportunities.
agree, Speight has struggled against top talent in his first season as the Michigan quarterback. I'm going to go out on a limb heer and suggest if those losses had been separated by about three games in between, many fans would have said, "Not bad for a first year qb. Three games by 4 points, and like you said, against top talent. One can't be sure, but I'm hoping for the normal improvement qbs experience between years one and two. I'm thinking all of those who saw action last season will improve and it'll be interesting to see if Pep and Harbaugh together will introduce some new wrinkles. He made a lot of plays on his own last season, after protection had fallen apart. Kept some cruicial drives alive or it could have been more than 3 losses. I bet you Evans, Gary, Winnovich, Hurst(glad he's back) wil all show drastic improvement. Have a feeling this team will surprise. IMO, this is Harbaugh's first team here. Players been around him. Look at the way Hudson and Bush hit.Washington was all over the field man. Harbaugh is wearing off on this group . Hudson and Bush look like bitches man. Think that young OL will be an improvement. Better coach and they've logged some time. Young receiving corp. Will need some time, but hopefull by midseason, they'll be hitting their stride. Black appears to be ahead of the curve.
We've got a good one coming up though. I think he'll be ready in a year or two. I hope we have some blowouts so he gets some experience against a team not wearing blue. Certainly hope Wilton doesn't get hurt and he's forced into action. He's still learning the Harbaugh way and that's pretty damn complex. He looked decent in the spring game, but needs some work, obriously. Any qb who basically just familiarized himself with the system would. I was kind of surprised to see Wilton make such a leap after backing up Rudock. Many fans said "Well he's seen his career highlight with the victory over MN." Damn, his improvement was amazing and he seemed to have that quality where he didn't dwell on things. In the fourth quarter vs. Iowa, he put the clincher right in Chesson's hands who allowed the defender to take it away. Now he couldn't do more than that, but his head was still in it. Then on our final offensive series, he hit Darboh right in the chest on 3rd down. The defender might have ripped his arm away, but damn good throw. Look at that shit, even the penalty that allowed the freshman kicker to breathe a bit. Admittedly, it was his worst game, but things seemed to set up, as they will during a season, where you just aren't going to win certain games. Then to get hurt, but again never complaining. Good leader. Watson has that same quality. He appears to be day dreaming for 3 and 3/4s of the game, but when its on the line, he's money. Some are able to play the next play and forget the previous. They're rare. .
Harbaugh is making no secret of it though. He's going to keep grabbing qbs until we're good for about 8 years. Love it. Hope we get that Milton kid. The other one can't be bad with the Bama offer. So glad we've got Harbaugh. He knows how to keep a qb focused. I would never have imagined Wilton to perform like he did with the luck Hoke had with his offensive recruits. But when you think about it, everyone that fell under Harbaugh, Drevno and the passing game exceeded expectations. Actually all in the NFL. I actually didn't know who Darboh or Chesson were until Harbaugh got here. Happy Wilton was able to pick up where Jake left off. And like Harbaugh said a couple months ago, Wilton's no.1 right now, but Peter's time is coming. He'll keep these players motivated. Shades of '97 bro. The pieces are coming together.
As long as the fan base doesn't get in a hurry. Won't be long, we'll be fielding a team with experience everywhere. Nice that they're excited again though.
The entire team played poorly against Iowa. It wasn't a Speight-specific issue.
April 30th, 2017 at 11:49 PM ^
I am assuming you watched the game!?
You are going to blame Speight's lack of performance on the rest of the team?
Is this account really Tom Izzo? It can't be, but c'mon man, even Speight would admit he did not play well. I have grown to really like the guy, but I still have to look at it realisitically. You, IMO, for whatever reason, don't seem to be doing the same.
April 30th, 2017 at 11:46 PM ^
Instead of proving your point, you are proving something else, and it is not good for you.
The post I replied to said Speight was horrible before the injury. This is the quote from the UFR:
The weird thing is that Speight started out looking much like he had in the previous three games. He missed a bomb to Darboh early, but other than that he was rolling out and finding guys downfield impressively, or actually hitting a downfield shot, or hitting open short stuff with ease. By the time Michigan scored to go up 10-0, he had one inaccurate pass and one marginal one against 9 DO/CA throws
That doesn't sound like someone who is horrible to me. When exactly did his injury occur? That's not clear. What I do remember is after every series in the 2nd half, they had a trainer looking at his shoulder. Why is this not good for me? All I was trying to do was refute the revisionist history that gets promulgated in the comments section. Anything you are trying to imply from my post other than that is on you.
C'mon. Would Harbaugh make excuses like this? "when healthy". He missed plenty of deep balls and throws when healthy. I look forward to an intense QB competition this fall. May the best man win the job!
You also said Michigan Basketball wouldn't make the NIT this year after the OSU loss.
Its nice that you're a passionate fan but you're just another guy with an opinion.
"Enough said?" What the hell do you know?