Speight vs Peters: Final Spring Practice
I know this conversation will probably drag on for a while and it's still purely speculation at this point, so if you're already over it don't read any furter.
With that said, although I do still think Speight is probably #1 on the depth chart right now due to age, experience, and a number of quality games last year (with some bad ones too), based on what I've seen so far in the spring, and in particularl the last spring practice video, Peters looks way better than Speight.
Speight often threw to one WR without looking at other options. Speight often through into traffic or good coverage, rarely completed his passes, and did not use any head, eye, or ball fakes to decieve his intentions to the defense.
Peters on the other hand looked sharp, completed most of his passes, and found open recievers quickly. Caveots apply. I don't know who was playing defense on those recievers or even who most of the recievers were at the time other than the TEs that were easy to spot. And, it wasn't live so the QBs knew they weren't going to get hit. But, based on what I'm seeing this spring, Peters may be our guy next year unless there is a big swing in how these guys are performing in practice. I don't see Harbaugh as the kind of coach to just give it to Speight based on last year if he's being out-performed by Peters in practice.
For those who haven't seen the video, here's the link from Scout:
http://www.scout.com/college/michigan/story/1774977-watch-u-m-s-final-s…
I didn't say start him. I said he MAY be our guy unless what we've seen from practice performances change. There is a difference between saying "Start Peters" and pointing out situations where Peters appears to be outperforming Speight.
So, lets say for example you are a heralded recruit and there is a returning starter. How can you prove to the coaches you are better than the returning starter if not in practice? Are you saying it requires coming into garbage time games or an injury to the starter to provide the game production required to supplant the starter? Didn't Andrew Luck replace the starter at Stanford coming off his RS freshman season in this same scenario?
and you can do it at any position. Actually, when a coach takes over its practice that allows him to decide who his starters are. However, when you have two who are very close, especially at qb, and this is where you want someone like Harbaugh, you have to be careful. Not about making the right decision. He'll do that. You could use O'korn as an example of a heraled recruit. He was offensive freshman of the year at Houston. It's not the SEC, but it sure in the hell is a lot higher than any high school competition you'll face. It was the perfect system for him. They ran the run and shoot where reading the defense is limited basically to counting the number in the bos. 5 or less, hand if off. Almost all the plays are decided after the snap and its dependent upon how the receivers are covered. Their routes are automatic depending on the coverage and the qb knows where each is going. Tough system to stop. But when Hermann showed up, well you understand what's needed in a spread offense that depends on the run. He and Wilton each studines and learned under Wilton for a year and no reason not to believe Harbaugh, he said it was close, but thats a lot of offense to forget and a lot to pick up.
Damn, I was pissed my junior year of high school. I was pulled up half way through the season to back up a senior so naturally thought I'd be starting the next year. I really didn't want to be pulled up to play maybe a quarter of a game when I could have played the entire game on the j.v. The guy he chose was a good athlete, good RB, but not a qb. Had no feel for the game. I asked one of the seniors that had graduated and he said he was told by the coach, "I'll never have a captain that's not a senior." I was life wtf, but he had this thing about his qb and a lber being captains. I know. Made no sense to me either. I don't know if he read my mind, but game number three was it for me. I had outplayed him in every way imaginable and a lot of the team was getting pissed. I wasn't going to be an ass. Just shake his hand and wish him good luck. But just before the seond half kick-off he called my name, talked to the other guy for awhile and after about 5 minutes sent him in at RB. And that's the way it stayed. I became a coach. I understand the leadership needed from upperclassmen. I don't understand starting a player inferior at a certain position. He was a much better RB and defensive player than I was.
So yes Strength, I can't imagine a better trio that Haraugh, Drevno and Pep to assess where your qbs are. Hell, I trust Harbaugh to know who's better at most postions through nothing but feedback from his coaches and watching the players. The man knows the game.
and you can do it at any position. Actually, when a coach takes over its practice that allows him to decide who his starters are. However, when you have two who are very close, especially at qb, and this is where you want someone like Harbaugh, you have to be careful. Not about making the right decision. He'll do that. You could use O'korn as an example of a heraled recruit. He was offensive freshman of the year at Houston. It's not the SEC, but it sure in the hell is a lot higher than any high school competition you'll face. It was the perfect system for him. They ran the run and shoot where reading the defense is limited basically to counting the number in the bos. 5 or less, hand if off. Almost all the plays are decided after the snap and its dependent upon how the receivers are covered. Their routes are automatic depending on the coverage and the qb knows where each is going. Tough system to stop. But when Hermann showed up, well you understand what's needed in a spread offense that depends on the run. He and Wilton each studines and learned under Wilton for a year and no reason not to believe Harbaugh, he said it was close, but thats a lot of offense to forget and a lot to pick up.
Damn, I was pissed my junior year of high school. I was pulled up half way through the season to back up a senior so naturally thought I'd be starting the next year. I really didn't want to be pulled up to play maybe a quarter of a game when I could have played the entire game on the j.v. The guy he chose was a good athlete, good RB, but not a qb. Had no feel for the game. I asked one of the seniors that had graduated and he said he was told by the coach, "I'll never have a captain that's not a senior." I was life wtf, but he had this thing about his qb and a lber being captains. I know. Made no sense to me either. I don't know if he read my mind, but game number three was it for me. I had outplayed him in every way imaginable and a lot of the team was getting pissed. I wasn't going to be an ass. Just shake his hand and wish him good luck. But just before the seond half kick-off he called my name, talked to the other guy for awhile and after about 5 minutes sent him in at RB. And that's the way it stayed. I became a coach. I understand the leadership needed from upperclassmen. I don't understand starting a player inferior at a certain position. He was a much better RB and defensive player than I was.
So yes Strength, I can't imagine a better trio that Haraugh, Drevno and Pep to assess where your qbs are. Hell, I trust Harbaugh to know who's better at most postions through nothing but feedback from his coaches and watching the players. The man knows the game.
April 30th, 2017 at 11:44 PM ^
That is false.
He started the Iowa game. We lost.
He was injured at the end of the game, relatively zero impact on the outcome.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^
We knew it was coming and it'll always be like that.
Denard lost his favor for Devin who lost his for Shane who lost his for Rudock who lost his for Shane (revisit the Rudddock vs. Utah game if you think I'm lying)...who lost his for Rudock (after the BYU game) who lost his to graduation who lost it to O'Korn who lost it to Speight who lost it to O'Korn who lost it to weather who lost Speight and no other options...
...now it's Peters who's the best opinion available. Fans always want the unknown, but then those same people will see a 3* recruit and go IN HARBAUGH WE TRUST!!!
...but why don't you trust him to start/play the best QB?
In the end, Speight is the starter going into the summer and let's see what happens. Everyone will have to keep working or he will get passed. And looking at how we're recruiting the position, that competition is never going to stop. Which is a good thing.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
Of course, all the reasonable fans when pressed will say "I'll go with what Harbaugh decides".
But that's not any fun in April. It would be like a March Madness bracket that allows for my champion is whoever wins it all.
I think there's a bit of truth to that psychology because unknown has the potential to be better than what is known and not great. It also has the potential to be worse. But, there's only one way to find out.
I agree that Speight is probably #1 on the depth chart as I mentioned for all the same reasons, but there seems to be some evidence that it could be changing. Only time will tell.
Dude. This is how it is, how it has always been, and how it will always be. Nobody needed you to inform anyone of this. Stop trying to take credit for things. How do you not see how this kind of thing makes you look?
I talk to HGS outside of this site.
Told ya was in reference to me telling him the board would be like this all offseason with the Speight vs Peters threads.
"DUDE"
April 30th, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^
Harbaugh has shown he will roll with the QB who wins the job. No platoons. I agree with you though.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
What a Hot Take!
April 30th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
I'll never forget when Speight's first attempt last season vs Hawaii was picked off...
I was like "oh fuck"... He ended up being pretty good. Let's see how the summer plays out. Jim Harbaugh knows more about QB play than all of us fans combined. He'll make the right choice.
When I returned from the game, the board reaction at that moment in the open thread was pretty much the reaction of the people in my section, this resounding - if brief - "GOD DAMNIT...", to the point where a couple of the supremely reactionary people (because that subgroup is fun at parties) were acting as if we might very well lose to Hawaii. It was pretty funny actually.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
And, with his odd throwing motion, I believe it's baked into the cake.
Don't get me wrong: he's a gamer and I like him but he will never sniff the NFL and we're better than that.
And, with his odd throwing motion, I believe it's baked into the cake.
Don't get me wrong: he's a gamer and I like him but he will never sniff the NFL and we're better than that.
I agree with many of those points. The decision hasn't been made yet and I'll concede that JH knows best. But, you're ignoring all the bad throws & reads Speight just made in practice with no pressure as well as Peters making good throws & reads in the same situations. That's more than just not performing well under pressure.
I've noticed that, too. I love Peters as a prospect but I think people have mistaken the idea of what he will become with what he is today. Baumgardner was in Rome and basically said the same after watching practices. Peters will be the guy one day but that day is not today and it's not because of seniority. No matter how much you want to believe it, he is not the best option right now. Period.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, one bad throw by Peters is worse than many bad throws by Speight?
I'm only evaluating what I've seen this spring, and more specifically that practice video. Is Peters perfect?...no. But the spring practice/scrimmage data available suggests Peters is better IMO. Does that make him better in games?...that remains to be seen.
He hasn't made a decision on who the QB will be next fall.
Are you saying that it's not appropriate to speculate on who starters will be next year?
I also said Speight is #1 on the depth chart right now.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:57 PM ^
Speight is your clear leader heading into fall camp. Has the gap closed? Yes.
There will be a couple of surprises on the two deep roster in the fall.
Care to enlighten us peasants on your 2nd point?
There certainly will be a couple surprises in the two deep but it won't be at quarterback. Speight will be the starter and Peters will back him up. At this point last year it was clear to some of us Speight would be the starter and yet we still had to listen to the O'Korn is mobile-let him run crowd. Peters will be very good I think. But he would need to be better than Speight in order to start, not just equal. And we're not there yet. A spring game doesn't and wouldn't show that. It's a glorified practice. That is all.
April 30th, 2017 at 12:56 PM ^
Once Peters takes complete command of the huddle, he's going to be tough to keep off the field. He's too talented.