Speight vs Peters: Final Spring Practice

Submitted by MGoStrength on

I know this conversation will probably drag on for a while and it's still purely speculation at this point, so if you're already over it don't read any furter.

 

With that said, although I do still think Speight is probably #1 on the depth chart right now due to age, experience, and a number of quality games last year (with some bad ones too), based on what I've seen so far in the spring, and in particularl the last spring practice video, Peters looks way better than Speight.

 

Speight often threw to one WR without looking at other options.  Speight often through into traffic or good coverage, rarely completed his passes, and did not use any head, eye, or ball fakes to decieve his intentions to the defense.  

 

Peters on the other hand looked sharp, completed most of his passes, and found open recievers quickly.  Caveots apply.  I don't know who was playing defense on those recievers or even who most of the recievers were at the time other than the TEs that were easy to spot.  And, it wasn't live so the QBs knew they weren't going to get hit.  But, based on what I'm seeing this spring, Peters may be our guy next year unless there is a big swing in how these guys are performing in practice.  I don't see Harbaugh as the kind of coach to just give it to Speight based on last year if he's being out-performed by Peters in practice.

 

For those who haven't seen the video, here's the link from Scout:

 

http://www.scout.com/college/michigan/story/1774977-watch-u-m-s-final-s…

MGoStrength

April 30th, 2017 at 1:46 PM ^

I didn't say start him.  I said he MAY be our guy unless what we've seen from practice performances change.  There is a difference between saying "Start Peters" and pointing out situations where Peters appears to be outperforming Speight. 

Reader71

April 30th, 2017 at 7:00 PM ^

Peters has never appeared in a game. He might be Peyton Manning, but we have literally no reason to believe that other than recruiting stars. He throws well in drills? He looks good in shells? Some practice clips from YouTube show promise? These are not things that should really move the needle one way or another. He is the backup QB to a starter who is unloved because Borges recruited him. I'd bet a dollar that if Peters has Speight's season and McCaffrey was the one with the good practice reports, no one would be asking for the backup. We'd all be talking about having patience with the guy who just won us 10 games.

MGoStrength

May 1st, 2017 at 7:22 AM ^

So, lets say for example you are a heralded recruit and there is a returning starter.  How can you prove to the coaches you are better than the returning starter if not in practice?  Are you saying it requires coming into garbage time games or an injury to the starter to provide the game production required to supplant the starter?  Didn't Andrew Luck replace the starter at Stanford coming off his RS freshman season in this same scenario?

Reader71

May 1st, 2017 at 8:24 AM ^

Of course. For all I know, that's exactly what is going to happen. My point in all of this is that your average fan should not convince himself one way of the other because we have essentially no information on the backup. The only thing we know about Peters is that he is not Speight. This leads to the blind belief that he must be better than the starter because we know the starter has weaknesses and we don't know that the backup does yet. I'm not making an argument for why Speight should start, I'm making an argument for why no one should believe Peters should.

Reader71

May 1st, 2017 at 8:50 AM ^

It should also be noted that replacing a starter with a guy who has never played is pretty rare and is, in almost all cases, a referendum on the starter's poor play rather than the backup's qualities -- because until he is in a game, the backup's qualities are unknown. We talk about Luck, but it's easy to take a chance on the backup when the starter was a 50% passer with more INT than TD and a losing record. Kaepernick didn't start until Smith got hurt. Brady didn't start until Bledsoe got hurt. Young never started until Montana was traded. Day Prescott didn't start until Romo got hurt. And on and on and on. When the starter is established, he is almost never passed by because the backup has no real opportunity to show his chops in a game, and coaches have jobs that they'd like to hold onto.

Wolfman

May 1st, 2017 at 9:05 AM ^

and you can do it at any position. Actually, when a coach takes over its practice that allows him to decide who his starters are. However, when you have two who are very close, especially at qb, and this is where you want someone like Harbaugh, you have to be careful. Not about making the right decision. He'll do that. You could use O'korn as an example of a heraled recruit. He was offensive freshman of the year at Houston. It's not the SEC, but it sure in the hell is a lot higher than any high school competition you'll face. It was the perfect system for him. They ran the run and shoot where reading the defense is limited basically to counting the number in the bos. 5 or less, hand if off. Almost all the plays are decided after the snap and its dependent upon how the receivers are covered. Their routes are automatic depending on the coverage and the qb knows where each is going. Tough system to stop. But when Hermann showed up, well you understand what's needed in a spread offense that depends on the run. He and Wilton each studines and learned under Wilton for a year and no reason not to believe Harbaugh, he said it was close, but thats a lot of offense to forget and a lot to pick up. 

Damn, I was pissed my junior year of high school. I was pulled up half way through the season to back up a senior so naturally thought I'd be starting the next year. I really didn't want to be pulled up to play maybe a quarter of a game when I could have played the entire game on the j.v. The guy he chose was a good athlete, good RB, but not a qb. Had no feel for the game. I asked one of the seniors that had graduated and he said he was told by the coach, "I'll never have a captain that's not a senior." I was life wtf, but he had this thing about his qb and a lber being captains. I know. Made no sense to me either. I don't know if he read my mind, but game number three was it for me. I had outplayed him in every way imaginable and a lot of the team was getting pissed. I wasn't going to be an ass. Just shake his hand and wish him good luck. But just before the seond half kick-off he called my name, talked to the other guy for awhile and after about 5 minutes sent him in at RB. And that's the way it stayed. I became a coach. I understand the leadership needed from upperclassmen. I don't understand starting a player inferior at a certain position. He was a much better RB and defensive player than I was. 

So yes Strength, I can't imagine a better trio that Haraugh, Drevno and Pep to assess where your qbs are. Hell, I trust Harbaugh to know who's better at most postions through nothing but feedback from his coaches and watching the players. The man knows the game.

 

Wolfman

May 1st, 2017 at 9:09 AM ^

and you can do it at any position. Actually, when a coach takes over its practice that allows him to decide who his starters are. However, when you have two who are very close, especially at qb, and this is where you want someone like Harbaugh, you have to be careful. Not about making the right decision. He'll do that. You could use O'korn as an example of a heraled recruit. He was offensive freshman of the year at Houston. It's not the SEC, but it sure in the hell is a lot higher than any high school competition you'll face. It was the perfect system for him. They ran the run and shoot where reading the defense is limited basically to counting the number in the bos. 5 or less, hand if off. Almost all the plays are decided after the snap and its dependent upon how the receivers are covered. Their routes are automatic depending on the coverage and the qb knows where each is going. Tough system to stop. But when Hermann showed up, well you understand what's needed in a spread offense that depends on the run. He and Wilton each studines and learned under Wilton for a year and no reason not to believe Harbaugh, he said it was close, but thats a lot of offense to forget and a lot to pick up. 

Damn, I was pissed my junior year of high school. I was pulled up half way through the season to back up a senior so naturally thought I'd be starting the next year. I really didn't want to be pulled up to play maybe a quarter of a game when I could have played the entire game on the j.v. The guy he chose was a good athlete, good RB, but not a qb. Had no feel for the game. I asked one of the seniors that had graduated and he said he was told by the coach, "I'll never have a captain that's not a senior." I was life wtf, but he had this thing about his qb and a lber being captains. I know. Made no sense to me either. I don't know if he read my mind, but game number three was it for me. I had outplayed him in every way imaginable and a lot of the team was getting pissed. I wasn't going to be an ass. Just shake his hand and wish him good luck. But just before the seond half kick-off he called my name, talked to the other guy for awhile and after about 5 minutes sent him in at RB. And that's the way it stayed. I became a coach. I understand the leadership needed from upperclassmen. I don't understand starting a player inferior at a certain position. He was a much better RB and defensive player than I was. 

So yes Strength, I can't imagine a better trio that Haraugh, Drevno and Pep to assess where your qbs are. Hell, I trust Harbaugh to know who's better at most postions through nothing but feedback from his coaches and watching the players. The man knows the game.

 

MaizeMN

April 30th, 2017 at 2:39 PM ^

I don't think anyone, save the coaches and Speight himself, are able to speak about his health in any of those games. Michigan is notorious for not releasing injury reports, so using his health as justification for wins and losses seems to be revisionist self-serving logic. It seems simple to me. Speight has more game experience. It appears Peters has more talent. Harbaugh, and only Harbaugh, will decide if the talent will outweigh the liability of inexperience. If so Peters starts. If not, it's Speight.

Mr. Yost

April 30th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^

We knew it was coming and it'll always be like that.

Denard lost his favor for Devin who lost his for Shane who lost his for Rudock who lost his for Shane (revisit the Rudddock vs. Utah game if you think I'm lying)...who lost his for Rudock (after the BYU game) who lost his to graduation who lost it to O'Korn who lost it to Speight who lost it to O'Korn who lost it to weather who lost Speight and no other options...

...now it's Peters who's the best opinion available. Fans always want the unknown, but then those same people will see a 3* recruit and go IN HARBAUGH WE TRUST!!!

...but why don't you trust him to start/play the best QB?

In the end, Speight is the starter going into the summer and let's see what happens. Everyone will have to keep working or he will get passed. And looking at how we're recruiting the position, that competition is never going to stop. Which is a good thing.

MGoStrength

April 30th, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^

I think there's a bit of truth to that psychology because unknown has the potential to be better than what is known and not great.  It also has the potential to be worse.  But, there's only one way to find out.  

 

I agree that Speight is probably #1 on the depth chart as I mentioned for all the same reasons, but there seems to be some evidence that it could be changing.  Only time will tell.

TIMMMAAY

April 30th, 2017 at 1:02 PM ^

Dude. This is how it is, how it has always been, and how it will always be. Nobody needed you to inform anyone of this. Stop trying to take credit for things. How do you not see how this kind of thing makes you look? 

Night_King

April 30th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^

I'll never forget when Speight's first attempt last season vs Hawaii was picked off...

I was like "oh fuck"... He ended up being pretty good. Let's see how the summer plays out. Jim Harbaugh knows more about QB play than all of us fans combined. He'll make the right choice.

LSAClassOf2000

April 30th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^

When I returned from the game, the board reaction at that moment in the open thread was pretty much the reaction of the people in my section, this resounding - if brief - "GOD DAMNIT...", to the point where a couple of the supremely reactionary people (because that subgroup is fun at parties) were acting as if we might very well lose to Hawaii. It was pretty funny actually.

MichiganMAN47

April 30th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^

Speight is a good quarterback, who received subpar protection last year. His pocket presence was pretty elite for someone with average athleticism. It's easy to point to him as the reason we lost games because he's the focal point of the offense but the reality is that our offensive line was mediocre at best last year. In the games we lost we couldn't run and couldn't protect the QB. Did we have any offensive lineman drafted? There's your answer. I'd be willing to bet that Speight gets drafted when everything is said and done. He is a good quarterback who struggles when he is under a lot of pressure, like any QB who is not Tom Brady. It's a hard position to play, and I trust Harbaugh's judgment. If Harbaugh thinks Speight is better, then Speight is better.

bluinohio

April 30th, 2017 at 1:06 PM ^

Nope, there was no pressure on the 3 deep balls at Iowa that he just flat out missed. He can't look off the defense. He's picking the receiver he wants to go to in the huddle and never looks away from that guy. He will never get drafted if he can't figure that out. I said half way through last year Peters would take the job this year and i still believe that.

BlueWon

April 30th, 2017 at 5:15 PM ^

And, with his odd throwing motion, I believe it's baked into the cake.

Don't get me wrong: he's a gamer and I like him but he will never sniff the NFL and we're better than that.

BlueWon

April 30th, 2017 at 5:15 PM ^

And, with his odd throwing motion, I believe it's baked into the cake.

Don't get me wrong: he's a gamer and I like him but he will never sniff the NFL and we're better than that.

Reader71

April 30th, 2017 at 7:07 PM ^

You know who really sucks? Every baseball player ever. They make many more outs than hits. No, I'm not going to account for the difficulty of the thing they are doing. No, I am not going to account for the fact that even the best players ever make an out roughly 65% of the time. I'm just going to point out that they fail a lot. Sometimes they do it when I really wish they hadn't, so it feels to me as though they really suck.

MGoStrength

April 30th, 2017 at 1:29 PM ^

I agree with many of those points.  The decision hasn't been made yet and I'll concede that JH knows best.  But, you're ignoring all the bad throws & reads Speight just made in practice with no pressure as well as Peters making good throws & reads in the same situations. That's more than just not performing well under pressure.

MichiganMAN47

April 30th, 2017 at 1:48 PM ^

And you are ignoring the fact that Peters threw a terrible pick 6 with no pressure on him in the Spring Game against a second string defense. Peters looked good overall, but most of his proponents minimize every mistake he made. Those in glass houses....

Wee-Bey Brice

April 30th, 2017 at 2:02 PM ^

I've noticed that, too. I love Peters as a prospect but I think people have mistaken the idea of what he will become with what he is today. Baumgardner was in Rome and basically said the same after watching practices. Peters will be the guy one day but that day is not today and it's not because of seniority. No matter how much you want to believe it, he is not the best option right now. Period.

MGoStrength

April 30th, 2017 at 2:38 PM ^

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, one bad throw by Peters is worse than many bad throws by Speight?

 

I'm only evaluating what I've seen this spring, and more specifically that practice video.  Is Peters perfect?...no.  But the spring practice/scrimmage data available suggests Peters is better IMO.  Does that make him better in games?...that remains to be seen.

umbig11

April 30th, 2017 at 12:57 PM ^

Speight is your clear leader heading into fall camp. Has the gap closed? Yes. 

There will be a couple of surprises on the two deep roster in the fall.

Maynard

April 30th, 2017 at 2:23 PM ^

There certainly will be a couple surprises in the two deep but it won't be at quarterback. Speight will be the starter and Peters will back him up. At this point last year it was clear to some of us Speight would be the starter and yet we still had to listen to the O'Korn is mobile-let him run crowd. Peters will be very good I think. But he would need to be better than Speight in order to start, not just equal. And we're not there yet. A spring game doesn't and wouldn't show that. It's a glorified practice. That is all.