How much have Michigan's struggles helped MSU? A lot?
We all know that MSU got SOME benefit on the recruiting trail when Michigan recruited a different type of player under RichRod and then had transition troubles. How much benefit can be debated.
And, we all know that being able to beat Michigan when Michigan was beatbale by many teams was a source of pride for MSU.
But, MSU has done well against other Big Ten teams. They have found a way to win some other big games. How much does MSU's success against UM really contribute to their team's confidence?
Wojo's article in the DetNews today shed some light on how important being able to beat weak Michigan teams has been to the Spartan psyche:
“The way the culture is here, Coach D always has the constant reminder — don’t forget where we came from, don’t forget when we were little brother,” safety Demetrious Cox said. “We kind of take it personally, just knowing they always do kind of put us in the backseat.”
The edge doesn’t get rounded off, certainly not among the wild-mannered, wild-maned linebackers. And they make no apologies for the focus of their fire.
“I had a great teacher, Max Bullough, showing me the ropes,” Reschke said. “He quickly got me to understand it’s a mental game, and you gotta be the craziest person on the field playing linebacker. … Coach D keeps that fuel going, and (strength coach Ken Mannie) does a great job too. They have different tactics and sayings, but the bottom line is, they teach us to hate Michigan, and it brings our play to another level.”
Did anyone really think that would go away just because the Spartans have delivered vicious vengeance upon the Wolverines seven times in the past eight meetings? They mention their rival and their driving force without any prompting, and that’s how they keep the heat on. It’s not complicated, really.
There has been some question about what will happen to MSU when Michigan starts to win big on a regular basis. Will others who filled the power vaccum, like MSU, still be solid? Yes. Will MSU drop off if they can't build off beating RichRod/Hoke teams? Yeah, it seems it would affect their whole identity.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:33 AM ^
Michigan beating MSU 42-3 or some other rout will happen? On the road at a rival with a strong defense who has basically run this rivalry the last decade?
Take the blinders off.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:40 AM ^
You are a weird dude. He said "if" that happens and "if" Michigan wins the NC. I don't think he was predicting it or putting money on it.
It is possible that UM blows out MSU this year and it is possible that UM wins the NC. I don't think it is probable though.
Harbaugh showed his team could go toe-to-toe with MSU in his first year rebuilding with young guys. What does he typically do in year two? Where is the ceiling?
August 10th, 2016 at 10:43 AM ^
As soon as you take off your green and white sweatshirt.
And yes, I think it's entirely possible that we beat the piss out of MSU this year. We're not coached by Hoke or RR anymore. The last decade of the series has no bearing on what happens this year.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:47 AM ^
That I'm not a complete slap like yourself and can see things with objectivity.
So, with that being said, winning on the road, at your rival who has a pretty darn good defense, you can see a blowout?
August 10th, 2016 at 11:03 AM ^
MSU is not our rival, OSU is. MSU is our in-state rival and will be back to 3rd in line once ND is back on the schedule.
You're giving MSU way too much credit. Last season they lost to Nebraska, needed a miracle in A2, almost lost to Oregon and FUCKING PURDUE, barely won the B1G title game, and didn't score a single damn point against Alabama.
They also lost a bunch of players from last year's team, while we're returning almost everyone and Harbaugh (and the rest of the staff) are better than D'antoni et al.
So yes, I'm confident that we'll beat them this year. And a blowout is more likely than us losing.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:08 AM ^
Come on dude. That sentence in itself is just ridiculous. Who gives a flying hell if they "barely won the Big Ten Title?" Would you be moping around if that was Michigan who "barely won the title?"
And they were one of the best four teams in the country. You can do whatever you can to strip away their accomplishments to prop up your feelings, but it is what it is. Again, that's not some made-up justification. They made the CFP.
Football is a 60-minute game. MSU made the play at the end to win, Michigan didn't. Again, if those justifications improve your well-being about the rivalry, so be it. But the scores are final.
Enough with the "almost lost" to X team. Happens every season. It's called sports. In 2006, Michigan ALMOST LOST to Ball State. OHH THE HORROR!
August 10th, 2016 at 11:13 AM ^
You're not a Michigan fan. I don't know why you're posting here. I see no reason to engage in any further discussion with you. Good day sir.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:18 AM ^
Good response :) Figured you didn't have anything meaningful to say back to something thought out.
Quite honestly, I enjoy engaging in conversation with people who can actually take their blinders off here and there to see things for what they are. You aren't one of those people unfortunately.
August 10th, 2016 at 2:24 PM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 3:05 PM ^
Their secondary struggled, but saying that D was awful is a stretch. They made the plays against OSU and denied us a first down that would have iced the game.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:52 PM ^
Welcome to MGoBlog, where if you're not a relentless homer, you're not a fan.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:50 PM ^
Oh please, cut it out with that "MSU is not our rival" bullshit.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:51 AM ^
I expect that the Wolverines will be rabid in ELansing. And I mean hungry, revenge driven, pumped and on fire rabid. That game is a must win.
August 10th, 2016 at 4:22 PM ^
and of coarse you knew that osu would come into michigan stadium and win like they did? if you say that you saw that coming you are lying. i mean, brady hoke had michigan in every osu game.
August 10th, 2016 at 4:24 PM ^
Lots of Michigan fans have been waiting eight years for MSU's clock to strike midnight and it hasn't happened yet. Even if MSU loses to the good guys this year, they'd have to also lose Dantonio and not get Pat Narduzzi to "go back under a rock."
I remember the sloppy but relieved win in 2012 over MSU. Then Sparty rattled off three straight wins. Just food for thought.
I want Harbaugh and Co. to pound those guys into the ground just like the next Michigan fan, but we've done this every year since the RR era and it's come back to bite us.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
For biggest weakness you've put Eczema.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:38 AM ^
Good shtick is still shtick. And Jim Harbaugh just doesn't care about any of this. I suggest OP follow the coach's lead.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:43 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:47 AM ^
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August 10th, 2016 at 9:48 AM ^
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August 10th, 2016 at 11:24 AM ^
Mad Hatter's threads usually have many references to prodigious alcohol and drug use, borderline-deviant sexual practices, and lots of humor.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:52 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:52 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^
I like Barbados...
August 10th, 2016 at 9:52 AM ^
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August 10th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
I think it is impossible to measure the direct impact that UM's strugglese have had on MSU's program (an interesting question would be the impact it had on OSU since they tended to be who we fought for recruits). That said, with UM being down, it certainly created a vacuum for another team to step into, and one could make a very reasonable argument that sparty was the best one to take advantage of that opportunity.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:59 AM ^
Just came back from a long cruise.
On the ship, sitting at the bar, while wearing a Michigan hoodie, a guy comes up to me, announces he's a Michigan State man, the Big Ten CHAMPION Spartans, and, while shaking my hand, says, in as pleasant a way as possible, "I hate your guts so much."
I smiled, said it was mutual. He went on a bit about the last game. I told him I didn't need to say a single thing: he KNEW what was coming. The writing was on the wall, and that it was fun for MSU while it lasted. But we both knew it was OVER. And that was all he (and I) had to say about that.
Nice guy, actually, and we'd wave to each other as we crossed paths on the ship.
Now, returning the good old USA, passing through customs, the customs agent looks at the same hoodie which I was wearing while reviewing my family's passports, and coldly asked whether I ever went there. I told him my wife's and my UofM bona fides and...
...no smile. Just a cold look and a pregnant pause.
I said, "Tell me you're NOT a buckeye. Please, tell me you're not a buckeye."
He said, "No. Michigan State. My friends and I cue up that game and every time we get together and still enjoy it."
Ugh.
"I'm going to tear up these documents and send you to the back of the customs line..." and he smiled just before actually ripping up our declaration forms. "Get out of here."
"Hey, you guys had the lead for exactly ZERO minutes and ZERO seconds of game time. Fluke win. Last one for awhile. Better enjoy it."
"Yeah, I think you're right. We're making this last win last as long as possible."
We laughed, I gathered my family, and we got out of there.
So, I don't think this really answers your question from the thread. But I can tell you, at least among MSU fandom, they seem to be crowing loudly, but only because they see the writing on the wall, and this is just whistling past the graveyard for them. Neither of them seriously questioned whether this wasn't the beginning of the end with Harbaugh arriving for MSU success over UM.
The light at the end of the tunnel for Michigan State is an incoming locomotive.
BTW, I love that f'ing hoodie. It's an ancient Dave & Barry's, torn a bit at the mid neckline just above the MICHIGAN lettering. The dark blue has has some areas of fade. Just old school. And it's such a hater magnet. Everyone should have one.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:29 AM ^
A complete stranger comes up to you says he hates your guts, runs his mouth about stuff, and he's a nice guy?
August 10th, 2016 at 10:50 AM ^
I guess you have to take tone and context into consideration. But I've never understood coming up to a complete stranger and spouting off at the mouth about their t-shirt.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^
But I've never understood coming up to a complete stranger and spouting off at the mouth about their t-shirt.
Which is exactly why I asked. They could be the nicest guys in the world but when someone does that to me, I immediately think:
- douchebag with no perspective
- overcompensating for an incredibly small penis
- mom and dad didn't hug them enough when they were a child.
There's other ways to strike up a conversation and be proud of your school than saying I hate you as an opener.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:42 AM ^
I'm fully on board with you. Same people who show up to work all high and mighty after their team wins but can't handle anything in return when their team loses.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:29 AM ^
Context is everything.
This isn't 2am in the alley behind a Lansing bar.
It's on an international cruise, where finding another American football fan, let alone a UM or even B1G fan, is a challenge.
And he wasn't in-my-face or nothing. Just a big smile, sitting on the stool next to me on a cruise ship bar, one B1G rival to another, enjoying the Baltic sea. It was fun. He could brag about beating us last year. I could brag about us beating them for just about every in state recruit of note, that this was the WORST Harbaugh team they would face, and they won, but they didn't beat us, if you catch my drift.
He knew exactly what was coming, so he was going to make that last win's pleasure last as long as possible, because this season, they're back in the desert, man.
Same thing with the customs agent. Friendly rivalry stuff, but only because they sense that that last UM-MSU game was the last time they will be able to hold over us for awhile.
Both MSU guys thought Harbaugh would be GREAT for Michigan, and conceded they weren't happy about it. And both were nice guys enjoying the rivalry. They'll just be enjoying it a lot less for the foreseeable future.
And my point is: they KNEW it. Didn't even bothering contesting whether JH would kick their green and white butts up and down the gridiron. Wasn't worth arguing from their perspective.
Twas nice.
August 10th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^
i really do think sometimes there is just something wrong with them. one time at the gym a big blowhard wearing his green and white came up to me and started in, i was wearing a u of m t-shirt.
i asked him if he was a long time fan or just riding the wave. he proceeds to tell me he has been a lifetime fan and as long as he can remember msu has kicked michigans ass. this guy is in his late 40`s by the way.
so all i said to him was this. until msu won in 2008, michigan had won 30 out of 38 games. and if not for last years gift michigan would have an 8 and 6 record against msu in the last 14 games. he says i am full of shit, so i tell him to go check the records and then come back. he hasn`t talked to me again.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:04 AM ^
Once we start winning, we will break their will. Their whole program revolves around disrespect, playing the underdog and beating Michigan. Once we start winning, it will be totally demoralizing for their program. They will just be another middle of the pack team talking about their glory years again.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^
MSU is doing well because they have found good talent that was undervalued by other schools, played the underdog/disrespect card like a boss, worked hard, planned well, and made good in-game decisions. These aren't the Sparty No teams of John L or Bobby Williams. They're not perfect but they've been darn good.
We had them beat and made a crucial mistake, of which they took full advantage and won. That should be excellent motivation for our whole program going in to the matchup this year.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^
I feel like some people "over compliment" MSU because of some weirdo UM fans who do not give MSU any credit.
I am neither. They have done great. I agree with your points, but the question is how important one of those points "played the underdog/disrespect card like a boss" will be in the future when they cannot crow about beating UM?
This article, published today, seems to imply it will change their identity on a fundamental level. They will still have good, solid coaching and players who are better than their rankings, but what does that mean without the disrespect?
August 10th, 2016 at 10:55 AM ^
If you believe the premise of your thread, what is your end game? Does it make you feel better? Do you go up to your MSU buddies and give them a 35 minute presentation about why things are the way they are?
The bottom line is that MSU has won the last decade of the rivalry. That's not me being a downer. Those are the facts. If I need to attach the box scores, I will.
End of the day, it's win or lose. No matter the circumstances. There can be a justification for ANYTHING in life. When you step on the field, all that stuff goes away.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:23 AM ^
What is the end game of sports discussion? WHat is the end game of sports talk radio?
We are just talking about stuff, for the sake of discussion. Calm down.
Obviously, the results on the field matter the most. We all know that. No one is forgetting that.
We just come here to talk about Dave Brandon, Josh Groban, schedule predictions, past players, recruits, etc. Over 90% of the stuff we talk about is not the final score of a game. I mean, what is the point of a UFR post? The game is over, move one.
Get real.
Let's just have a discussion about how important being able to beat Michigan has been for MSU's success. Let's leave the other reasons aside and specutlate on that... If you can't think that deeply and can only paruse box scores, then maybe sports discussions are not for you.
August 10th, 2016 at 4:44 PM ^
this is whats wrong with this whole stupid argument. msu fans and osu fans of coarse only want to focus on right now. why wouldnt they , its in their favor. but history paints a different picture. as i stated earlier, michigan would be 8-6 in just the last 14 years against msu if not for last years miracle.
you cant`t just forget about all the previous years because it doesn`t support your argument.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:15 AM ^
Coaches slapping themselves (John L) help Michigan in the early 2000s?
Come on man. I get we all hate MSU and OSU, that's the standard signature line. But give their coach credit for doing an incredible job and flipping the rivalry upside down.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:23 AM ^
No one failed to give him credit. I swear that some peope are so defensive that you have to say something nice about Dantonio as a coach or youre a hater or something. I never said he was a good, bad or other coach. It is beside the point and it can be assumed he is a good coach.
Come up with a new schtick.
John L did not help us. Even Saban could not win at MSU when UM was their "normal" program. You need to learn about "rules" and "exceptions/" You also should look to see how much Michigan's teams were motivated by the wins over MSU back then.... were they even mentioned?
August 10th, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^
Is a joke. Hence why you are getting the rightful amount of downvotes.
The premise of this thread is that Michigan State benfitted big time from Michigan being down. It works both ways.
Give it up. Move on from this.
And if you don't think John L didn't assist Michigan in winning those games, you are out of your mind.
2003: 27-20
2004: 45- 37 (3 OT)
2005- 34-31 (OT)
2006- 31-13
Yeah, Michigan was sure rolling them boys under John L. LOL. Any form of good coaching could have completely changed how those four already close games went.
August 10th, 2016 at 2:35 PM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 3:15 PM ^
You make it sound easy... MSU can't be good if we have a good coach. That's an absurd thing to say in the year 2016. We are going to win more than we lose, but neither side is winning 7 of 8 with these two coaches at the helm.
August 10th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 11:28 AM ^
Saban struggled to win because of the recruiting sanctions Perles put them on. Perles was dirty as hell. His last team in 1999 was very good and beat us.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:18 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^
If we maintain our recruiting at the level we are now, Sparty will go back to barely beating us or getting blown out the building like OSU did to them in 2014 and Bama has done to them twice during the Saban years. When the coaching is even, or slightly tilted away from MSU, they struggle if their opponent is faster and stronger.
But the games will be hard fought. If John L. Smith can coach them to a couple OT games against us, Dantonio will be able to coach his guys up to give us 4 quarters of hateball.
August 10th, 2016 at 1:44 PM ^
And yet MSU went into Columbus last year, against a team stacked with 4-5 star, All-American talent, and shoved them around like rag dolls. With mostly 2-3 star leftovers that most other schools passed on.
Come on, man. Give Dantonio his due credit. As long as he's around, MSU isn't going anywhere. And their recruiting has gotten slowly but steadily better in the last few years, so its not unreasonable to think that MSU will remain in contention for the foreseeable future.