How much have Michigan's struggles helped MSU? A lot?
We all know that MSU got SOME benefit on the recruiting trail when Michigan recruited a different type of player under RichRod and then had transition troubles. How much benefit can be debated.
And, we all know that being able to beat Michigan when Michigan was beatbale by many teams was a source of pride for MSU.
But, MSU has done well against other Big Ten teams. They have found a way to win some other big games. How much does MSU's success against UM really contribute to their team's confidence?
Wojo's article in the DetNews today shed some light on how important being able to beat weak Michigan teams has been to the Spartan psyche:
“The way the culture is here, Coach D always has the constant reminder — don’t forget where we came from, don’t forget when we were little brother,” safety Demetrious Cox said. “We kind of take it personally, just knowing they always do kind of put us in the backseat.”
The edge doesn’t get rounded off, certainly not among the wild-mannered, wild-maned linebackers. And they make no apologies for the focus of their fire.
“I had a great teacher, Max Bullough, showing me the ropes,” Reschke said. “He quickly got me to understand it’s a mental game, and you gotta be the craziest person on the field playing linebacker. … Coach D keeps that fuel going, and (strength coach Ken Mannie) does a great job too. They have different tactics and sayings, but the bottom line is, they teach us to hate Michigan, and it brings our play to another level.”
Did anyone really think that would go away just because the Spartans have delivered vicious vengeance upon the Wolverines seven times in the past eight meetings? They mention their rival and their driving force without any prompting, and that’s how they keep the heat on. It’s not complicated, really.
There has been some question about what will happen to MSU when Michigan starts to win big on a regular basis. Will others who filled the power vaccum, like MSU, still be solid? Yes. Will MSU drop off if they can't build off beating RichRod/Hoke teams? Yeah, it seems it would affect their whole identity.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:42 AM ^
UCLA hasn't won shit...MSU has
August 10th, 2016 at 10:22 AM ^
They are better I suppose, but haven't approached MSU's recent success
August 10th, 2016 at 12:16 PM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:08 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:30 AM ^
I didn't know this horse was dead. I thought some people still think MSU will win B10 championships when Michigan is humming again. If everyone agrees that they will be lost without their motivationa; ploy, then I will delete this original post.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:43 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 8:51 AM ^
Any time your biggest rival has a decline it will help your team. But you also have to give Dantonio credit since it's not like MSU has been an average team and just happens to beat Michigan. They have won multiple Big Ten Titles and were scheduled to play in a playoff.
With that said, we really shouldn't have this thread until we beat MSU and OSU.*
*thanks Hatter
August 10th, 2016 at 9:44 AM ^
I see what you did there and I like it. "scheduled to play."
August 10th, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^
Upvote for "scheduled to play"
August 10th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^
But that game was funnier. Almost felt bad for them. Then I remembered their dickish fans...
August 10th, 2016 at 8:54 AM ^
the best thing you can do when you hate a topic of conversation is to not comment on it. I'm not commenting on this topic of conversation
August 10th, 2016 at 9:31 AM ^
but... but... you did comment.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:36 AM ^
You're not sayin'.
You're just sayin'.
Are you in politics?
August 10th, 2016 at 9:01 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:12 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
August 10th, 2016 at 9:45 AM ^
Iowa always struggles. Penn State and Nebraska have largely struggled more than Michigan since the early 2000s well before MSU became good. It's not like the planets aligned and MSU suddenly became good because of that.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:26 AM ^
Some of their best players have been no-names (Leveon Bell, Darqueze Dennard). Their team is largely 3* guys playing at a much higher level than our 4* guys were playing up till Harbaugh.
Suggesting that MSU went from a 7-5 program to a playoff team largely because Dantonio got 5-7 3-4* tweener guys per year is silly. it's because Dantonio was a far, far superior coach to Hoke, Richrod, and probably all but 5-10 other guys in the country
August 10th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
There is also some luck involved here. Both players you mention above came to them under less than "COACH D FINDS ALL THE TALENT" circumstances. Dennard was looked at after they went to his high school to scout another kid. He was so good they began following him, a relative unknown, and then offered. Bell was a Bowling Green commit, and the only reason he got an offer was because there was some trouble at MSU, and a few kids were being kicked off the team, which opened up a scholarship. Add Kirk Cousins, who really wanted to go to Iowa but wasn't even regarded well enough to get a scholarship there (he had offers from Colorado, Toledo, Northern Illinois, and Western), and Jack Conklin, who was a walk-on (i.e. they didn't think highly enough of him to offer him a scholarship).
That's four of the best players they've had in school history. And yes they recruited them or brought them in, but they also fell in their lap a bit. I highly doubt that repeats.
But yes, Dantonio is a very good coach.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
but Don'tonini has a lot of low class remarks and behaviors that discredit him, his program, and until he learns to have class,he will always be disrespected, and will always be subject to second tier attention from his coaching breathren and journalists. His antics in the Michigan tunnel after last year's debacle, "Where are all the Wolverines now?" with his smarmy smirk, is given as example.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:34 AM ^
I think they have been Iowa/Wisco solid, but that beating Michigan helped them more than you are letting on. Their coaching and team put them at about the Wisco (Beliema years) level (or Iowa under Ferentz), but that they beat teams like OSU and ND based on their confidence. They think that if they can beat "bg brother" then they can beat anyone. It fuels them in all their games. The quote makes clear that it is part of their everyday mentality in the program and that leads to success in other ways.....
August 10th, 2016 at 12:41 PM ^
michigan never got their ass handed to them in any bowl game under bo.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:04 AM ^
I don't care about MSU but I do appreciate the increased value of the rivalry, in both sports. I can't hate them as much as OSU because they don't have the finances to pay for as many players, so I have to give props to Dantoni for that.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:05 AM ^
That it's about taking steroids.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:17 AM ^
How is Max doing these days? This story amazed me at the time becuase it was so clear that it was somethig which implicated the program not the individual. The whol MSU camp went silent on it right before the Rose Bowl.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:09 AM ^
Just wait and see how pissed off they get when we beat them this year. They know they'll never be on the same level or relevant as Michigan's program, no matter how much they win. Pretty soon they won't even have that.
They've been able to be salty with Michigan because they've been able to beat us. Their success has allowed their character to blossom. Michigan has sucked for the most part for 8 years. I get it, Dantonio is a good coach, he hates Michigan, but Michigan sucking has allowed him to be good. I believe that firmly.
Dantonio is a fighter and he has instilled that personality into his teams. Michigan has not had a fighter at the head coach position for a looonnng time. There is one there now. If you combine that with Michigan's superior resources, recruiting, etc., MSU dominance over UM will be done.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:34 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:26 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 11:28 AM ^
MSU has seen many upgrades to both athletics and academics over the years.
Their fan base isn't one of them.
August 10th, 2016 at 3:33 PM ^
Eh, not academics, they are still very mediocre.
From 2001 to 2014 literally every single Big Ten school's incoming classes had higher test scores. That included big jumps for schools at the top like Northwestern and Michigan, but also jumps for schools in the middle like Minnesota and even Nebraska had its test scores rise.
MSU was literally the only school to stay stagnant. That's sad.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:26 PM ^
That poster was mocking our fanbase. Full post was, "Dantonio didn't even want him. Not sure if he had the grades to get in anyway." Obviously Dantonio wanted him and obviously grades weren't a factor. MSU fans like to play up the idea that every time we don't get a recruit we think it's because our coaching staff "cooled on them" or grades were an issue.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:30 AM ^
I don't buy any of this.
Michigan and Staee are worlds apart. Schools, cahchet, money, the rest of the athletic department, yada, yada, yada.
Michigan screwed itself more than helping them:
- no succession plan
- a lack of leadership in 2 of the last 3 ADs
- complacency
Dantonio is a heckuva coach. He uses that chip on his shoulder better than anyone else. And he has to! He doesn't get the recruits. He built that program with 2 and 3 stars, felons, and those with attitude problems.
Granted they have won 2 of the last three B1G championships. They should be happy about that. But they won't be. Staee cannot celebrate their accomplishments -- they could win 10 of them in a row and *still* look to Ann Arbor for validation. Mike Hart called us "little brother" -- boo fucking hoo.
They get better talent now than previously but nature is righting itself. Their run is over. The Big Ten is retruning to the big 2 and the little, errr, whatever. Sparty can crow all they want about that win last year but anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together know that 'W' was bullshit. And they are gonna get their asses handed to them this year too.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^
This is the interesting part. I've never seen a fanbase so miserable as them after their team won a big ten title. All they do is whine about how much attention Harbaugh gets.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:49 AM ^
The pinnacle was when they complained about playing in the B1G championship after M moved ahead of them in polls after MSU lost.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^
Why is the narrative still that they don't recruit well? Their 5-year recruiting ranks 3rd in the Big Ten; certainly good enough to be competitive every year. They have more talent than 9 or 10 teams on their schedule every year. Combine that with very good coaching and this is what happens.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:01 AM ^
Do you have any idea what the weather is like up in East Lansing? It's absolutely frigid there man.
August 10th, 2016 at 10:22 AM ^
Reading is fundamental...
I specifically said:
They get better talent now than previously
August 10th, 2016 at 4:07 PM ^
You also said
He doesn't get the recruits.
By which I assume you meant "he doesn't get the recruits."
August 10th, 2016 at 10:41 PM ^
Their 2017 class certainly doesn't look great so far. Looking at 247, it's currently ranked 27th nationally and 7th in the Big ten. Hudson would have been their 3rd best player (in terms of 247's national rankings), and now knowing that makes me a lot happier we got him. Also, to give some more context on their class, their top ranked player for national rating is Kevin Jarvis, coming in as the 263rd best player in the country :)
Anyone know if they are getting interest from any highly rated guys? I know Irving-Bey would be a plus guy for them, but don't know of anyone else. I would love to see them not even finish with a top 25 class after just getting to the CFP.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:27 AM ^
I'm glad Bama made them look like chumps ... & their loudmouth QB choked in his last game.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:28 AM ^
I don't think we are truly back until we are regularly beating our rivals more than they are beating us. To me it is more about that along with winning percentage then just how many wins we have a season. I think this article is premature, if in the next 5 yrs we win 10/15 rivalry games (5 against MSU, 5 against OSU, 2 against ND, and assuming 3 against Minn) and have a winning record against each rival and have a good amount of wins each yr, and MSU falls from grace, then we should talk about MSU falling off because then we should talk about how when we WERE down it clearly helped them if they're struggling with us doing well. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't MSU football good in the 50s/60s when UM football struggled too? That would help this argument as well
August 10th, 2016 at 9:31 AM ^
You left out Illinois and Rutgers.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:46 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 10:21 AM ^
Has Illinois declared us rivals as well?Unfortunately, yes.
August 10th, 2016 at 12:49 PM ^
your right. between the fiftys and sixties michigan won like only 4 times in 20 years. but after bo lost his first game to state, michigan won 30 out of the next 38 years. funny though, even as good as msu has done lately, if michigan wins last year they would have a winning record over spartie in the last 14 games.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:29 AM ^
August 10th, 2016 at 9:29 AM ^
I would say it helped at first, but now Dantonio is a well established coach.
But, I don't care if they have great teams as long as Michigan goes out there and beats them.
August 10th, 2016 at 9:47 AM ^
Dantonio is well-established. But, the foundation of his team psyche and motivation has been their ability to stand up to UM and beat them. It permeates their whole season. So, if MSU starts to face tougher UM teams and cannot rely on that confidence and pride, what is his foundation?
He is not a Saban, Meyer or Harbaugh type who has shown success at lots of different jobs. His whole coaching identity has been the disrespeckt for being little brother.... Will he turn into a Beliema at Arkansas or a Franklin at Vanderbilt?
August 10th, 2016 at 10:17 AM ^
Because the guy has already won the conference four times (I believe), and put them in the CFB playoff.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^
I don't think he won it four times, but I don't know.
Anyway, the point is that those seasons have been built on a motivational foundation of standing up to UM and beating them. Once they get that confidence built up in them, they believe in themselves the rest of the year. The MSU players say in the article that it is their identity for the team...not just their identity for the UM game.
So, will the past you mention continue when that element is gone? That is the question. What happens when you lose your edge and/or identity as a program?
August 10th, 2016 at 10:30 AM ^
I'm not sure that they'll completely collapse, but if we beat them say 3 or 4 times in a row it will have an effect on that program.
Hell, if we pound them hard this year(42-3 or similar) and win the NC they might crawl back under their rock.