If Harbaugh turns down the offer is he still loved by the fan base? Is his choice savior or villain?
So, we all know we think he would be a savior or at least the most loved alum at the time if he takes the job. What if he turns it down? Would he become the most hated alum? After all, it's not like he's turning down a middling offer. It makes him the highest paid coach in all of football. Even if the offer he would accept from the NFL is higher, i have to believe this offer aided tremendously in getting him to that stratosphere. I think most people would have thought he was a $6-7 million guy to the NFL without this type of offer from Michigan.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^
I believe there's a difference between CFB and the NFL, and CFB icons "mean more" in some ways to their fan bases, but NFL icons certainly exist and are revered.
"As an NFL coach you can win a super bowl but no one remembers yor name"
That line of thinking is the college fan's version and flip side of "NFL arrogance" that has been rightfully derided throughout this search. Belichick, Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh, Noll, Shula, Landry, Lombardi, etc. are loved and remembered by their fan bases.
Finally, I don't know that fan-adoration is #1 on most of these guys lists. I assume #1 is being the best of the best, which will mean Super Bowl winner to a lot of coaches.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
fan adoration isn't #1 or anywhere to be found on a good coaches list of priorities. Harbaugh obviously doesn't give a shit what the UM fan base thinks and probably doesn't care what former UM players or even teammates think. The real question is how will any coach not named Harbaugh be treated by those in and close to the program. Being the cranky pessimist that I am it wouldn't be surprising to have another transition like 2007 if it's ABH (Anybody But Harbaugh).
December 18th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
because Lord knows that with me living in Chicago, I am reminded of that not-so-great NFL coach all of the time...was just on the front page of the paper yesterday, in fact.
December 18th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
you do know that the NFL is vastly, vastly more popular than college football, right? Go outside of the whole Rust Belt/Bible Belt/Corn Belt NCAA heartland and you'll find far more people who can name the head coaches of every Super Bowl winner than could tell you which team Woody Hayes coached.
December 18th, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^
Maybe I am wrong but getting 110k people in one stadium plus millions other watching is a lot different feeling than 60k people in an NFL stadium
December 18th, 2014 at 3:22 PM ^
last year's national title game got a 15.3 rating.
About a month before that, on December 1st, a regular season game between the Broncos and Chiefs did a 16.7 rating. Even a Lions game managed to best that, a 16.6 for the Thanksgiving game against the Packers. The 18.3 rating for the Redskins-Cowboys game in the 2012 regular season would have been the second highest for any college football championship game ever. Last season's Wild Card playoff game between Washington and Seattle got a 21 rating, tying the biggest rating for a college football title game (USC-Texas, 2006).
About the only metric you can use, other than your own biased world view, to claim college is superior to the pros in popularity is attendance. Which is deeply flawed because a.) NFL games are far more expensive to attend and b.) no NFL team can sell thousands of cut-rate tickets to students. I know arguing about this here is like trying to tell a North Korean person that Kim Jong Un really doesn't make the sun rise every day, but these are hard facts.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
At this stage of the game, I believe the 'right' thing to do would be to let Michigan know that he's not interested in returning to college. The guy's NFL winning percentage is amongst the tops in the league since he started and his prior track record would earn him massive offers without Michigan's interest. So if this plays out for two more weeks and the answer is still no, he will be villified. No question Jim.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
One thing the NFL-centric guys are missing is the allure of winning a CFP National Championship at Michigan. That's not nothing. How that stacks up against a Super Bowl in Harbaugh's mind is hard to say.
As someone who basically roots for NFL teams depending on the number and centrality of the Michigan alumni on their rosters, it's an easy decision. But Harbaugh played in the NFL, and it may mean a lot to him.
I think the NFL itself truly wants to hang onto him, and a lot of that smoke is coming from an actual fire. They will make a serious offer. It won't be an easy choice.
Regardless, to answer the OP, I myself won't hold it against him if he stays in the NFL.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
Simply deciding on the NFL shouldn't make him a villian. However, if it comes out that he was never considering coming to Michigan and only used us to drive up his next NFL contract? Well, that would be a little harder to take.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
I think he will will catch a lot of criticism whether it is fair or not. If he would have said no from the get go, people would have understood. This has drug out so long that if he turns down job, a lot of people are going to go bonkers. I'm not saying it is fair or unfair, just that he may end up being the villain to the majority.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
I don't think the question of whether he will be "still loved" is quite right - he's (desperately) wanted, which is a bit different from loved. If he comes and is successful here, then he will be loved.
That said I doubt if most of us would begrudge him if he turns the offer down and decides he'd rather stay in the NFL. Provided he doesn't pull a dick move like stringing M along first, which I don't see him doing.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
He already is a huge part of the program. I loved the win he guaranteed against Ohio and then delivered. Bo seemed to love him as his quarterback, saying he was "thankful" to have him heading into his senior season. I won't begrudge him anything if he declines the offer, and I will certainly remain thankful for his days as a player. I'd say he's already "loved" like Brian Griese and Rick Leach are.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
I will probably be more angry at Harbaugh, even though it's displaced anger. It will be final proof that the Michigan job is just not that desirable anymore.
At this point in time, OSU is the flagship of the B1G, Michigan is a secondary afterthought as a program at this point. If we don't get a top tier coach and start winning soon, we'll disappear from the landscape.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
So no one will care about him either way. It's the Raiders.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
The only way I see Harbaugh being a villain in this, is if he doesn't publicly turn us down before he takes an NFL job, meaning he used our offer to leverage other NFL teams.
I would hope he understands that if he wants to not look bad to the M community he needs to say "no" before the time NFL teams can come calling. If he comes out and says "I want to weigh my options at the end of the season," that would gloss things over a bit. I think he'll be careful about that, but it may cause us to have to read in to any of his comments made over the next ten days.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
His obligation isn't to say "no" simply to save UM's timeline. His obligation is to do what is right for him and his family. Waiting to decide on the UM job until he knows more about the NFL offers is a reasonable thing for him.
It is his prerogative (and perfectly understandable) to wait, and UM's prerogative to give him a deadline (which supposedly he has).
December 18th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
Unless he uneqivocally knows he doesn't want the job. Then he's just stringing us along for his own betterment which I can't abide. No way, no how.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
Unless you're JH, you'll never know. UM is working under the assumption that is not the case. Some posters here seem to be working under the assumption that if he doesn't land in A2, then he could only have been stringing UM along...bad logic.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
that I think this is the biggest career crossroads choice of his life. This is alma mater calling saying we want you and proving it with more than words. Over time, Jim has been pretty candid about his feelings about Michigan, both good and not so good at times, but always meant to be constructive.
The way he makes his decision and discloses the rationale for staying put would mitigate a certain amount of bad feeling that would naturally ensue. Time heals but people wouldn't forget. So how do you measure making the right choice for yourself against the emotional impact of your answer to those whose embrace you reject?
You live with it, knowing you did the right thing inspite of the reaction. Family is more important than satisfying a community of fellow alums and fans. We'll get ovef it, but the disappointment will mean we can't even count on folks who we always thought we could turn to for help when we needed it. That's what will really hurt.
December 18th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
I will feel fine if he handles this honestly, speaking publcily about it as opposed to using his agent. If he says on the record in the open that he is an NFL guy, still has unfinished business in the NFL and that's why he's turning us down, no hard feelings at all. But if it's handled poorly, my esteem for him will go way down.
December 18th, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^
I don't disagree with you on his obligations. My point is the only way he actually is a villain is if he uses his alma mater's offer to leverage a bigger one. Perception and reality are two different things though.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
This. If he drags it out a couple weeks into the NFL postseason I think fans have a right to be mad at him. He'll actively be hurting Michigan. If he turns down Michigan on the soonish side because he's an NFL coach now, that's fine and shouldn't change a thing.
December 18th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^
Frankly, we should have a deadline of December 29 or December 30 since the offer will have been out for a while. If we still have the offer out and he is still deciding by that time I would consider him to have hung us out to dry.
I truly believe there may be some smoke to the Bob Stoops rumors, just a gut feeling no insider knowledge, especially if we hand him the Harbaugh offer. IMO Stoops is an A+ offer and if we get him I wouldn't care anymore about Harbaugh as I think they are both great college coaches. If Harbaugh did not have the Michigan connection I'd say it's pretty clear that Stoops has had more success in a pretty good conference. As others have said the Pac-12 was not as good a couple of years ago.
Should we get somebody like a Stoops or even a Richt I wouldn't care if Harbaugh decided to stay in the NFL but if it's
1) December 29 or 30
2) He hasn't made a decision and
3) This leads to un hiring an inadequate candidate
then I will have beef, fair or not, with Harbaugh. It is ultimately his decision as others have argued and he does have to do what he thinks is optimal.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^
December 18th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
There will a number of decent positions available. He will have his pick. I don't think it will be an easy choice for him. I believe Michigan is doing everything they can do. If it doesn't work it will be because he wants to chase a Super Bowl. Also, throwing out a large figure could bring in additional interest from new candidates so I'm pretty confident that UM can land a big name guy.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
What he did for us as a player makes me love the guy regardless of what happens. He was the QB when I first stepped foot in the big house at the age of 5. To this day, it still chaps Chris Spielman's ass that Harbaugh guaranteed victory in Columbus and was true to his word. I love that.
Not that I won't be majorly depressed...I would be. But I won't hold it against him.
I still think his sister has AWFUL taste in husbands but otherwise, he'll always be a Michigan legend regardless of his final decision.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
He wants to win a championship.
Whether it is via college or nfl is what only he knows the answer to.
Maybe he has unfinished business in college. That's what I hope he is thinking.
I was pumped up after Hackett had that press conf and felt he will do something good for M. That's what I'm hoping for also.
The Harbaugh offer is public now, so if he is going to turn it down to stay in the NFL then he would likely state his reasons and let M down respectfully.
"it's not you (M)"
"its me (my current aspirations)"
I can respect that if he said that.
The media and "sources" are all tugging the pendulum. He's coming, he's not, he's coming. Hopefully this does not drag out and Jimmy decides quickly. That way we can move on with or without the best available candidate.
Hackett said to the current team that it should wrap by the Holiday break.
I say, stick it to everyone that says he is not coming Jimmy. Come home and coach the heck out of M. You da Man!!!
December 18th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
This discussion will not end well...
Bottom line, it's Harbaugh's life and Harbaugh's choice. If he turns Michigan down, horrible people will act horribly and probably send hate mail etc. (certainly would have happened if Urban had turned down OSU). It doesn't lessen his great accomplishments here and in the NFL.
That being said he will be a deity if he comes.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
Harbaugh already used Michigan once to better an NFL offer in 2011....and the offer was LESS by the 49ers than what Michigan offered!
What makes you think he won't do this again?
Many seem to have JH on a pedastal...I would highly encourage you to go back and read the details of Brandon's offer to JH and that all went down. This guy is no saint.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
Wooooo, have a source for that?
December 18th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
Harbaugh already used Michigan once to better an NFL offer in 2011....and the offer was LESS by the 49ers than what Michigan offered!
What makes you think he won't do this again?
Many seem to have JH on a pedastal...I would highly encourage you to go back and read the details of Brandon's offer to JH and that all went down. This guy is no saint.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
What details? What offer? Where?
December 18th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
Honestly, that would depend on who we end up with if Harbaugh does turn us down.
If we end up with Bob Stoops, we will respect his decision to stay in the NFL.
If we end up with Steve Addazio, he will probably be considered a villain who screwed Michigan by using us as leverage to get paid in the NFL.
I look at the offer being made public as 1 of 2 things:
1. Harbaugh's agent leaked it to use as leverage, knowing he is not going to take it.
2. Michigan's side leaked it to let everyone know, including the fans, we gave it our all to get the top guy on our board, and the guy seemingly everyone wants. We can't debate like the 2007 search of was he offered or not, or did Dave Brandon even try.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
Let me give a maize-and-blue tinged 3rd option - which I don't find all that far-fetched.
3) There is no specific intent to the leak. No leverage, no message to the fans. Instead, the deal is done*, and has been for some time (maybe days or a week+). People familiar with the deal, probably on Michigan's side, are getting loose lipped because, why not? Deal is done, people are excited and start talking.
* by "done" I mean agreed to in principle, not necessarily signed in blood
December 18th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
We have been optimistic for awhile, lets be a little more optimistic.
Michigan just made him a GREAT OFFER.
December 18th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
I hope you're right!
December 18th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
80% of the board wrote him off after not coming here the last time, and remained salty for a while into his 49ers tenure.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
I would not harbor any ill feelings. If Michigan doesn't fit his life & career goals, then it doesn't. You can't fit square pegs into round holes and in the end no one is happy. The part that would make me frustrated and if any, sour grapes, is if he strung Michigan along all this time. Especially if he waits to the last minute to tell them his true intentions. If he was truly weighing options and undecided, that's one thing. If he was just playing Michigan like a fiddle, that's another. If he declines, we may never really know the real story if he was honestly undecided or playing with UM's mind. I seriously doubt he would play UM this way, but that's when I'd be less than happy with him
December 18th, 2014 at 5:20 PM ^
I'll say what I've said on here before: I absolutely, 100% believe there's no way he'd come back to college for any job but Michigan. If he doesn't come to Michigan, it will not, regardless of what any smug pundit or asswipe rival fan says, be because of anything "wrong" with Michigan, apart from being a college program and not an NFL franchise. The guy has dreams, just like I do, just like anyone else does. If his dream is to coach in the NFL and win the Super Bowl, then it is what it is, and we will just have to deal with that and move on.
Obviously, it will matter a lot to some people whether the delay was because he seriously used Michigan to get a bigger NFL offer, or because he honestly hadn't made his mind up. But it's likely the truth, either way, won't really be known. People can and will decide for themselves which it was. I can't fault the guy, and I also can't believe he'd screw Michigan like that. If he stays, I think it will be because he agonized over it and came to the conclusion that that is just what's best for what he and his family want. I can't not respect that.
I just hope the question ends up being moot.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
I will respect him decision because he has to do what is best for him and his family, and I will respect him as a former player. As a coach he will become just another NFL coach to me.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
No one has a right to do something that displeases me in any way.
December 18th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
You just made me so sad. I know you're right, but we'd be selfish if we didn't take time to put ourselves in his shoes. That being said, I hope he has a longer list of reasons why he wants to coach in Ann Arbor until he retires.