Cord Cutting update / thoughts
Every couple years I look at cord cutting and I still haven't actually done it yet. Wanted to share my thoughts and ask folks if they are in the same spot or if there's something I'm missing.
I live in West Michigan and use AT&T Uverse for TV and Internet. Currently the lowest tier TV package that includes sports channels is $115 and bundled unlimited internet is an extra $30. Total of $145 + tax.
For internet-only service, the choices are:
- $70 + tax for up to 1,024 GB streaming monthly
- $100 + tax for unlimited data streaming monthly which I would inevitably have to select
So cord cutting "saves" $45 + tax, but it's not really $45 because I'd have to pay for additional hulu/amazon/sling services anyway to still stream sports channels. So the net savings would be much less than $45. Possibly no savings at all I suspect. I may also have to buy hardware to be able to stream on my 6 yr old TV.
So for me it's not worth the (potential) (small) savings to go through the hassle of changing. So I'm keeping TV service for now along with unlimited internet for $145 plus tax.
Change my mind?
March 13th, 2019 at 10:50 AM ^
I've never heard of this, can you explain more? Do you get ESPN through this? BTN? Local channels? Also, does it require an internet connection to work? I feel like there has to be a limitation somewhere with this, other than not having a channel guide.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^
You have never heard of it because it is not legal. It is basically an Android TV box with access to illegal streams. The service will stop one day without notice and you probably will get notice from your ISP about IP violations. If illegal streaming is what you want, there are much cheaper ways to go.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:12 PM ^
Well if you are pretty savvy and don't always care about having a checking account available for debit card access, I recommend robbing a bank. You only have to rob it once for the cash on hand and no monthly fees - ever - for hundreds of dollars, on demand goods and jewelry that provide you with more luxuries than you ever dreamed of and from all around the world. This includes pretty much every thing someone put in that bank though getting access may take a few months to be available in high quality. I am still trying to figure out why people pay high monthly fees for checking accounts when this is available. Caveat - if you are hooked on having your freedom because you aren't a criminal this probably isn't for you. If you aren't hooked on freedom and like to have cash, jewelry, or other valuables on an occasional or on demand basis you will love it.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
Well done. I don't often laugh out loud over posts, but you got me.
If you are a proud supporter of MSU athletics you will probably love it.
Yeah, the more I read about this, the more apparent this became. Unbelievable that some people would pay $200-$300 on this.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:43 AM ^
One thing that is nice about live TV streaming services is they are easy to cancel. I have YouTube TV right now, which is $40 per month. Once basketball season is over I will cancel it until football starts up again. I can save $200 a year by only paying for TV when I need it.
This is something that more people should do with streaming services. I did the same thing with Netflix and it turns out I don't use it very much. Only had it for like 2 months last year.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:00 AM ^
This is key to doing it right, in my opinion. Obviously, everyone's preferences and needs are going to be different, but the big benefit of the streaming services is having the ability and flexibility to just drop it from one month to the next. Not an option with a cable or satellite provider.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:10 PM ^
*most cable / satellite providers
I use Charter for both internet and television. I would lean to satellite if I had unlimited money, but Charter offers me something irreplaceable: Cost-free cancellation. I can walk in on any day and cancel and there's no extra cost, and I still get my internet from them for between $50 and $60 depending upon what deals are available. When I want tv I just start again; the last two times I've done this I haven't even needed an "install" since I have everything ready to go.
The quality still beats the streaming services I've used (Vue and Sling) by a significant margin. And the price varies between almost no more (when I'm on my "discount" cycle) and not that much more anyway (when I'm paying full price).
It has been a little more difficult to negotiate with AT&T, but basically I've done the same. I sign up for what I need September 1st or so, and take the best no-contract rate I can get. Once football is done, I call and get their best Internet only (or Basic Cable + Internet right now, as it's cheaper and no caps) contract rate for a year. They don't mind me upgrading in 9 months, so no worries there.
Overall you save good money this way $60/mo 9 months, $100/3 months. I have no other options as Spectrum hasn't realized they finished our subdivision yet. I mean, it's only been 2 years now.
The streaming services TV services are just too unreliable so far, and price-wise it's been about the same.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
I use YouTube TV too and am not that happy with it. Their UI is poor and on Chrome, it skips a frame every 20 or 30 frames (which is REALLY annoying for sporting events). The only great thing about it is that it will DVR everything you can possibly want.
If cable price was within $20 of Youtube TV, I would go back in a heartbeat.
I've had the exact opposite experience with YoutubeTV. They're the only service that had 60 fps on every channel, including locals, which is important for March Madness. I used to have PSVue, but they were 30 fps for CBS, which makes sports almost unwatchable. Of course, I'm watching on my tv through a Nvidia Shield. I find the UI much better than any other streaming service I have tried. It's incredibly easy to find games and set them to record. Love being able to set to record all Michigan games.
Interesting. I've had zero issues with Youtube TV, and in the reviews of all the services that I've read online, Youtube always receives great scores for reliability.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:44 AM ^
I cut the ATT cord recently, but not literally. You can call the "loyalty" dept at ATT and negotiate a lower cost for internet. They matched the price of our local cable internet service (saved $25/mo) but it was actually easier for them to adjust the price of the lowest uverse bundle instead of going internet only. So I still have a set top box I don't use. They also came and updated our speed for free (much needed, old lines). It cost us a few hours on the phone but ATT wants to keep you in some regard. Also, if u get a rep that rebuffs you, just call back, much of this is discretionary. We added Hulu and can't complain
This seems to be situational at best. I talked to 3 different “loyalty” people as well as this first line people and got told to pound sand. I didn’t want to switch for internet but will have to. I would have paid a bit more not to have a new provider but since I cancelled TV they said no thanks.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:46 AM ^
Just going to put a quick plug for youtube TV in here. I think it's fantastic. $40/month and has every channel that Michigan could conceivably be on, plus local TV.
The DVR functionality is very nice.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^
Same here. $60/month gets me insanely fast internet through WOW. Then $40/month for YouTube TV gets me every sports channel I would ever want, plus unlimited DVR, the most reliable stream in the business (I've tried Hulu Live and Sling...this is the only one without chronic buffering issues). We get all our locals. The only thing missing is the HGTV my wife likes to watch. Beyond that, I'm very pleased...but if I ever change my mind and want to change to another service, it takes all of 120 seconds and I'm up and running on the competitor's platform. Nobody coming to my house, no appointment windows, no equipment to rent...
Part of the value is the relief and sense of liberation I get by never having to send another check to the likes of Comcast, nor suffering the horrible customer service that comes with dealing with mega-companies like Xfinity or AT&T.
Love YouTube TV.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:49 AM ^
I will not change your mind.
My brother cut the cord a year or so ago and I occasionally take the kids to his house and watch a game or something while we BS. It never fails that the picture will occasionally go blurry as it buffers, or he won't have the channel, or he will, but he has to log in to a different service. It's absurd. And if we start late, we miss it. No DVR when you stream everything. I just roll my eyes and shoot him a glance and ask "Yeah but how much are you saving?" (and then he calls me a dick)
I pay $200/month for Xfinity internet and cable with HBO and Netflix and all of the on demand stuff. I get to DVR shit which is an absolute requirement the way my family operates.
I've seen the alternative, and like you said, it's just not worth the nonsense over $30/month or whatever. I just don't understand the appeal. $200/month is acceptable to me. I can afford it. And it's hassle free.
I could downgrade my car. I could buy a smaller house. I could shop at Payless Shoes (RIP). I could buy an Insignia TV instead of a Samsung. I could buy crappy Michigan apparel from Meijer. I could do lots of stuff to pinch a penny. I don't because I'm happy to pay for higher quality and/or convenience. My television is no different.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
Youtube TV has unlimited DVR (cloud based) and I've never had any issues with it dropping out, buffering, etc.
I pay $80 per month total ($40 for Comcast internet 150Mb and $40 for Youtube TV). Your brother might just need a faster internet speed for his to work better.
Sounds like we just have a lifestyle difference though. I see the $120 per month extra that you spend over me and think of the benefits I could have by saving that money. Sounds like your priority is convenience so cable makes sense for you.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^
I haven't used YouTube TV per se but have rented a couple of movies (through my laptop) and the service was great.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:10 PM ^
Everybody has a lifestyle difference. That's why this topic is so subjective.
That $40 you say you're paying for Comcast internet is nonsense to me. Not that I don't believe you - congratulations - but that's not real world pricing. It's about $70-$80 stand alone at that speed. I know that because I used to have it paired with DirecTV. I also visited the Comcast website just now which confirms $70/month, and that's before modem rental and everything else.
I also have HBO. You don't. I have Netflix. You don't. (unless you're one of those guys stealing from your mom in which case, yeah...)
When I account for everything I have and price out streaming options, it's about a $30 difference monthly. Makes no difference to the greater point I guess, but you throwing around "$120" in monthly savings is misleading.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:49 PM ^
It depends on what you do obviously. $40 for 150 seems low, I agree. I pay $70 for 400.
For PSVUe with the Sports Pak (for NFLRZ channel) and HBO I pay $75 per month plus $70 for 400 internet Xfinity), so my total is about $145 /mo. I don't include Hulu or Netflix in that (since I had it when I DirecTV too), so those are a wash.
I was a giant DirecTV supporter, and I am fully on board with "I will pay more for what I want" mentality. I don't mind an extra money if it gets me good service. For me at least, there was not a downgrade in service at all. My internet has gotten faster, and I still get all the channels I watch, and I'm saving between $50-$75 a month from what I was paying. That is going to vary based on how the individual uses TV, of course.
Yes, I sunk some costs into an XFiniy Modem (~$100) but I can resell that unlike the "rental fee" I was paying to DirecTV each month to have the honor of watching their TV. I've already recouped that in savings since I switched.
I'm really happy with YoutubeTV and it has more sports than Xfinity had without paying extra. It as given me a few problems of losing service. Once each during the World Cup semis and finals. Once during the Michigan/MSU football game (I missed the TD pass live). Also sometimes the cloud DVR freezes up w but will come back if I exit the app on the TV.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
Sounds like he needs better hardware...I stream 4K to my TV over wireless and my family streams other devices without a hiccup. I have the cheapest internet only package from Comcast.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
I too have xfinity TV and cable. About every two years my rate goes up and I call and they find me a better deal to reduce the bill. Also, DVR capability is a must for my lifestyle. My wife refuses to watch commercials.
People I know who have cut the cord complain about channel selection, picture quality, navigation issues and no DVR option. I guess everyone needs to do what works best for them.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:10 PM ^
You must get much better xfinity quality than me. It used to crap out all the time. Now I’ve got Hulu (with DVR), Netflix and Verizon Internet. Saving $50 month for much better quality
the interface leaves a bit to be desired but between the better quality and the lower price, well worth it for me.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:15 PM ^
Glad you have the money to do whatever you want. Not everyone does. I don't save money on food but I'll buy Payless shoes, Michigan apparel from Meijer, and so on.
As for the physical TV screen, I won't even type in here what we have. Yeah I'll upgrade it, eventually, it isn't life or death.
Especially since my DISH email earlier today signifies the end of the 3 year contract and raises the bill from $88/month to $118. If they want to avoid a painful breakup they'll have to match whatever DirecTV has on offers to switch back.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:51 AM ^
I will offer the same thought with every one of these threads.
You can have the best internet connection in the world, you will buffer, sometimes at the worst possible times. You can have download speeds of 90000 gigs a second, you are at the mercy of the uploader.
And if you put the two side-by-side (Cable vs Streaming), the difference is night and day. When I watch a stream of a game, and then switch over to something else on my TV, I am stunned at what a difference the traditional cable/satellite provides.
I am willing to pay the extra 20-40 a month for a service that basically never cuts out (DirectTV, have lost the signal maybe twice last year) and get substantially better viewing quality.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
If you depend on Reddit for your streams, then yes what you said will happen. Similarly, if you are using a smart TV app (which are usually very clunky), you MAY have issues.
I have not had one issue with YouTube TV cutting out or lagging going on over 6 months now. I use a Roku to run the app on one TV and a chromecast on another. Both work flawlessly.
Unlimited DVR for each separate user is a huge plus.
I’ve compared. I had way more hiccups with Xfinity then I do with Hulu. Obviously your experience is different. It wasn’t just price, it was quality that drove me away from cable.
The one thing you say here that is important is "you are at the mercy of the uploader." That is spot on. But you're missing some important points:The content of what you are getting from your uploader, DirecTV, is a digital signal that is being broadcast to your satellite. The same is true when you're getting cable (its just being sent via their cable network rather than satellite). Both are data information being sent to your set top box by the provider.
A "stream" from a streaming service is the same exact concept. It is data being sent to your streaming device, but being sent over the internet.
Any argument that they are "night and day different" needs to start from this fundamental understanding. And it's simply not true that they are night and day different. All of the major streaming services providers aren't going to run into that issue. This is obvious if you flip on Netflix 4k content (which, for example, is purely streaming), or for example, on demand content from your provider. The idea that it is universally "different" because it comes from a stream provider as opposed to a cable/satellite provider is pure garbage. It's the quality of their product and effective delivery that matters. If both are done properly, there should be no difference.
If you are using a stream from an inferior source (or an illegit source), than of course it might not be as good. But that's equivalent to using a knock-off DirecTV, and not an apples-to-apples comparison.
With me it starts and ends with quality. If there are money saving alternatives with the same quality, I'm all ears, but if quality of picture comes with a reduction in price, no thanks. I have 65" OLED TV's and a reduction in picture quality is very obvious.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:53 AM ^
The most important aspect of cord cutting is having the login of people who pay for cable. Everybody I know who cut the cord would always tell me how happy they were but then when pressed how they actually watched things it would be "well I have my parents cable and netflix login, I share a hulu with my sister...etc".
Now, I have cut the cord, but I found a lot of people disingenuous about the benefits without explaining this first. I already had Netflix and I have in laws cable login for ESPN. But without the cable login I would probably need at least some kind of streaming service (Sling TV, PSVue, etc) for sports channels, at which point it would eat up enough of the savings that it may not have been worth it.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
We cut the cord about 3 years ago. Went with YouTubeTV mainly because of the sports packages. At the time I was already paying for Netflix. We added Hulu. I'm a very heavy data user. Everything media based in my house is streamed. I have 500 movies on Vudu most in 4k. I have some nest stuff which backs up to the cloud, and I generally am active on the internet. I use about 800 gigs a month. So 1024 (1 TB) usage would require someone using a lot of data intentionally. My cost went from about 180/month for tv, data, and netflix to 120 for data netflix and hulu.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
Tmobile will give you Netflix for free (or at least it did last year when I switched from Verizon).
Also have hundreds of movies on Vudu, hundreds of physical blu-rays, Amazon Prime and PSVue. Think I pay about $80-$90 for my internet/PRIME/PSVue. Looking forward to the day when wireless internet is free over the air. That will also eliminate the cellular service we have to pay for thanks to free wifi calling!
March 13th, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
We're currently with Verizon. Thought about changing to Tmobile, but we live in a valley and from what we can tell all of the carriers service is horrible.
March 13th, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
Tmobile service quality < Verizon in Michigan but the pricing is substantially cheaper and data is unlimited. I am okay with a few low quality calls per month to save a crap load of money each year plus free Netflix
March 13th, 2019 at 10:56 AM ^
OP - you think you will stream more than 1 TB of data in a month? Curious if you have actually done some analysis on that, or if that's just a gut feel.
I have Netflix and Amazon Prime (these get used on about a daily basis), and play video games occasionally, and don't come anywhere near 1 TB in a month. Unless you have looked at your usage rate and know that you are using more than 1 TB in a month, I would suggest going for the lower tier internet option.
As others have mentioned though, the real allure to cord-cutting is having the flexibility to start/stop your services when you want. A good example of this is YouTube TV, as another poster mentioned.
For the record, I currently pay about $70/month for cable and internet through Spectrum. I have an amazing deal right now, and actually receive more channels than I am paying for. I'm not sure how it happened, but it's a wave I'm going to ride until Spectrum wises up to it. Once that happens, I will likely drop cable and switch to internet-only, with YouTube TV or something similar alongside it. I don't want to pay over $100/month for internet and cable.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
I’ve heard the $100 price point a lot! I work for the 6th largest MSO in the country and our basic video bundle costs us $75/subscriber. That’s the pass through cost from the content producers. I don’t think people have any idea how much the content producers are actually charging. Much of what people hate their cable company for is beyond its control (there are still good reasons to hate your cable company though)
March 13th, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
I have streaming for my TV, netflix, hulu, prime, a kid who streams, and play video games too. And I hit about 700-800 GB /mo.
March 13th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
I've been using PS Vue for almost 2 years. I've (almost) never had an issue. I watch it on both my PS4 and my Roku. I've watch College Football on it all Saturday every Saturday in the fall and it work better than cable.
Plus, if you're only interested in specific seasons, there's on contract. You can drop and resubscribe at any time. That was my plan, but I've liked it so much that I've kept it around.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^
I pay $216.45mo for 3 iPhones and cell service to ATT and $283.80mo to Comcast for land lines, internet and TV. Am I paying too much?
March 13th, 2019 at 11:17 AM ^
That seems exorbitantly high to me, though could be the best you can do based on a few things:
For cell service, are you in a rural/remote location? Or are you in a well-populated area, close to a large city? If the former, then it is worth paying extra for cell service through ATT or Verizon. If the latter, I would strongly recommend looking into T-Mobile. My wife and I both have new smartphones and pay $137/month for 6GB of data each. Obviously a third line will cost you more, but you could save on what you are paying ATT.
For internet/TV/phone, I would look into a package that doesn't include a phone line. Why pay for that when you also have smartphones? There is literally no reason to have a landline phone anymore, unless you are in a rural location without reliable cell service.
I would also look into dropping TV and phone from your cable provider, and just go with a good internet package. You could add something like YouTube TV on top of that and probably still be around $150/month for internet and live TV. Really no reason to be paying $283/month these days.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
The $216 to ATT seems pretty normal, especially if you are making payments on all 3 phones (upgraded within the last 2 years).
The $283 to comcast seems very high. Have you called comcast recently to see if they have any better offers? What I've learned from having comcast service is that you have to play a game where you call them up once a year to complain about how much your service costs and they will offer you a better deal. Then next year when the deal runs out your cost will skyrocket again so you have to call and bitch at them all over again. Its obnoxious, but the price you have to pay to get the best rates with comcast.
To get an idea of what you could be paying go to the comcast site in incognito mode and try to look up deals for new customers. You may have to say that you are moving to your current address to get them to show up.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:06 AM ^
I use an IPTV service, pay $8/month for it and get all the sports packages, movies, TV shows and cable channels from countries all over the world, all HD quality.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
What is the name of this god-like service?
March 13th, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^
Site is currently down for service, but I can post a link here when it comes back up, or would you prefer I email it to you?
It's called the players klub (TPK)
March 13th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
OP- I'm also in west Michigan; depending on your location/elevation, you might want to check out freedomnet or michwave for internet. They're not the fastest, and they're not the cheapest, but they are unlimited.
They're both the same technology, just different companies each with their own towers. Freedomnet has been $5/mo cheaper, but I can only get line of sight (which you need with microwave signal) with michwave.
I have the second-tier package for $65/mo and am streaming Hulu live with no issues. All said and done, I'm at $110/mo for both with dvr and some ala carte channels. Wouldn't be enormous savings for you, but being month to month is very nice.
Like I say, internet speeds aren't going to knock your socks off, but unless you're a heavy online gamer, I doubt you'll have any issues. I'd love 100mbps, but michwave is literally the ONLY option for me besides satellite or cellular.
Anyway, might be worth investigating in your case.
March 13th, 2019 at 11:17 AM ^
I agree that your internet options are ridiculously expensive. The cost of internet must've gone up considerably in the last 5 years since I lived in GR.
I switched to YouTubeTV about 2 months ago and love it. I live in NC but I set it up through my in laws address in Monroe, so my local channels are all the Detroit stations. Also means that I get Fox Sports Detroit for all the Detroit sports I want. I get BTN, FS1, Golf Channel, all the ESPNs, etc. so I won't miss any games either. I'm looking forward to the fall and having the option to watch the Lions games. I'm not an NFL guy, but it nice to have the option. It's perfect for the sports fan, in my opinion.
We pay $40/mo for internet and $40/mo for YouTubeTV, which is less than we were paying for just our DirecTV service. With a baby on the way, we were looking at ways to cut our costs and this was the perfect option to cut costs and not really lose anything. My wife misses watching HGTV, DIY, and Food Network, but that's about it.