Perspective After Tonight’s BB Loss
Well that sucked. In regards to this game, this showed the true bugaboo of UM’s team. Same thing happened at Wisconsin, foul trouble and can’t shoot. Officials killed us this game. Especially early, taking us out of it. Our fault for not being deep, but they controlled this game making Brooks, Davis, Johns, DeJulius, Castleton Play, some key minutes. Shooting woes weren’t good, but 2nd half was 2 point game when our top players get to play. Oh, don’t want to hear about the auto bench. JB knows you only get 5. His approach is have all hands on deck 2nd half. Both sides have pros and cons. Reality is a thin team can’t get screwed on crap calls.
The funny thing and my main point of this message was the perception of this fan base. Many say, this team blows. Others say, relax this team is 20-2. Reality is and most gotta see it, something in between. We can’t control officials, so only having 6 Maybe 7 at times a huge problem with this squad. Second, this team can’t shoot. Even see our bad shooting on several games we win. This team doesn’t have any pure shooters. Few in our rotation are just bad. Both Iowa and Wisconsin loss were similar and how we lose. Foul trouble, especially early and lots of missed shots. Many times the misses come from multiple people on floor who suck at shooting, and Poole/Iggy try to do too much. You see Iggy/Poole force a lot when our 6 main play? Maybe a few, but majority are when Teske and Livers are sitting. The receipe for success hinges on lots of luck. Refs and health going our way.
No, sky is not falling. We have 2 losses, at Iowa and at Wisconsin. Most years I chalk both up as losses. Over years, haven’t played well at their house and we always get screwed by BS calls. Both games didn’t let me down this year. Frustrating when you know this going in, probably some truth to it? Also, at Wisconsin with all the junk on the road (foul trouble/bad shooting), we within 3 with a minute left. Tonight, we were basically even in 2nd half when our top 6 could actually play. Not bad when you stack up the consistently bad calls and awful shooting.
Lets hang in there and realize that both sides have lots of solid arguments, but both off, and just enjoy the ride. Hopefully this team can get some guys hot . But we know we only got 6 guys (crazy how much better Teske is on D vs. Livers/Johns when watching those 2 halves). So pray officials are kind and the injury bug escapes us come March. I like our chances when our 6/7 can play all the minutes.
February 1st, 2019 at 10:58 PM ^
I love when people point out a flaw:depth, shooting, free throw shooting etc. And say this is going to cost us. And then when we go out of the tourney "see I told you so."
Of course it is! There's 365 teams . Only 1 doesn't have a fatal flaw exposed. Every team has them.
Just a matter of having fewer than other teams and getting lucky as well.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:00 PM ^
I think we’re atill a very good team. Not perfect, but still a top 5 team. It’s teally hard to win on the road in the Big Ten. Iowa player with a ton of energy and took it to us.
I think we have some weaknesses, teams can score when they go fast. On O we can struggle from distance.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:02 PM ^
My perspective is that I don't give a shit. It's a basketball game in early February. I looked up the score just now. Most of the time you look at basketball teams that had a really good season and see they went something like 28-6 or 29-5 or something. Well the 5 or 6 somehow happens, too.
These nights don't decide how you'll look back on the season. You'll sober up and move on if you're pissed now. If we lose on the first weekend in March, then you'll start your "Beilein is past it" threads and all that, but if we go far - which we can - then you'll say you never had a doubt about how great he is.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:10 PM ^
Like your perspective BlueMk, though personally I'm having a great time watching this team play.
20-2 makes for a lot of happy nights.
And as far as I'm concerned Coach Beilein is a fantastic coach. He's already proven it to me many times over.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:11 PM ^
"the team doesn't have any pure shooters"...bullshit. poole, livers and iggy are all very good spot up shooters. it would be nice to have a couple more, however.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:22 PM ^
None of those guys are pure shooters. Poole is the closest.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:24 PM ^
i guess your definition is different than mine. guys that can knock down open 3s at a 40% and FTs at or near an 80% clip are pure shooters to me.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:31 PM ^
Exactly. I think it’s the first JB team to not have one. Helps when DRob is around 3 years!
February 2nd, 2019 at 2:04 AM ^
Robinson shot 38% from three last year. Livers is at 42% and Poole is at 40% on high volume for both of them. No idea what you guys are talking about with any of this "pure" shooter nonsense, whatever that means. But those two are great 3 pt shooters. And Iggy is very good at 38%.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:29 PM ^
All in worrying about is Big tournament & March Madness!
Kets see how MSU does weekend!
February 1st, 2019 at 11:38 PM ^
Let's just post the idiot remarks after the season. Business owners never hire these guys if you can figure out who they are. Especially if they are Michigan business school graduates that means they never learned absolutely anything. That is all.
February 1st, 2019 at 11:48 PM ^
I would argue the strategy of this team is opposite of luck . defense shows up every game. Shooting is streakier.
Poole is a pure shooter .
Agree with you on Iggy but he is still a fr . He was lights out early, now struggling, he will find a happy medium soon.
Every team essentially goes to an 8 man rotation during tourney so 7 isnt that thin .
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
We have 6 man rotation. 8 would be great, that’s our key issue. Extremely thin.
February 2nd, 2019 at 12:27 AM ^
Pretty sure we’ve gone to sweet 16, elite 8 and final 4 losing after at Iowa. While sky isn’t falling would be nice to win there in either sport for a change.
February 2nd, 2019 at 2:18 AM ^
The perspective to take away from this game along with the past 6-8 weeks is this:
This team is elite defensively with the best PG and Interior defender in the conference and two of the best in the country. Mathews is also a high level defender. From the starters the defense is superb. That is not the issue at all.
The issue is the offense. Poole and Iggy can rep defenses honest with their shot. The other three do not. Teske is good on the pick and roll but not much of a back to the basket threat. Right now we have one quality bench player and that is Livers.
Brooks is not a good option at the 2 alongside Simpson. He is not a slasher nor is he a good spot up shooter. Our lack of a second big is detrimental too. Davis is a significant downgrade from Teske on O and D. Johns is out of position at the 5, and is much more suited for the 4.
Last season we had Poole off the bench at the wing to keep the D honest: and Teske who could come in and be an improvement at D for some quality minutes. Our lack of a viable backup guard and post player is the biggest issue. Brooks is an okay player to supplant Simpson for a few minutes but an absolute negative when playing the 2. Same goes for Davis/Johns at the 5.
For this team to make a run it needs to 1: stay out of foul trouble at the PG and C position. It needs Livers to be an offensive weapon off the bench. Second, Matthews has got to get back to the level he was in the tournament last year. Lastly it needs one more player to come off the bench and provide offense. It’s going to have to be a freshman in Johns, Castleton, or even Nunez. Without those, this team is at risk for a game like tonight and at Madison. Come the second round of the tournament, this team could lose with performances like this.
Someone who has not been a major contributor (those being Simpson, Poole, Iggy and Teske) to step up big time.
February 2nd, 2019 at 3:33 AM ^
Michigan's had a January lull every year since beilein's been here. Just peel those eyelids back and enjoy every moment, it usually pays off starting around mid-February
February 2nd, 2019 at 7:48 AM ^
We’re fine. I said the same thing after the Wisconsin loss. Upsets happen in college basketball ALL. THE. TIME. Duke is going to drop at least another game or two before the season is done. So will MSU.
This team is very good, but far from perfect, and there will be more losses. But that’s okay. No one expected us to be 20-2. Everything we want to play for is still in front of us. Take the loss, learn from it, and move on.
February 2nd, 2019 at 8:03 AM ^
It seems as if this team may be opposite of other Beiline teams fast start slow finish I hope I am wrong
February 2nd, 2019 at 8:36 AM ^
You forgot one thing. Iowa was quicker that us. Which meant driving to the basket was going to be difficult so we attempted 3pt shots. Everybody knows how that it is going to end.
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:08 AM ^
The sky didn't fall and it's ok to feel bad about a loss. Believe in Beilein! his coaching is strong enough to win some game where the shooting isn't the best.
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:13 AM ^
These are the worst type of posts possible. You’ve got to have a better way to spend your time.
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:13 AM ^
These are the worst type of posts possible. You’ve got to have a better way to spend your time.
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^
I full expected this loss as I expected the Wisconsin loss. We always lose on the road to these gangly white teams who play in some clunky arena with rabid fans who literally have nothing else going on in their lives. 20-2 is awesome at this point of the season.
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:27 AM ^
We are a damn good basketball team but we’re not elite, and i don’t think you can win a natty without depth.
February 2nd, 2019 at 1:58 PM ^
Which teams are "elite" then? Only teams ranked 1-4? What a stupid post.
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
...the quick whistle was an hindrance to M in last night game. Something to watch going forward...
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:40 AM ^
Wonder if there have ever been any studies done on sitting guys once they pick up fouls. The guys will eventually have to play right? If you sit a guy just because he picks up a foul and he doesn't end up fouling out, what have you saved? Is it better to sit one of your best players and the result is falling so far behind that you can't recover. JB knows a lot more about BB than most of us but if there's one area that IMO he over coaches its in regards to sitting guys too long once they pick up fouls.
February 2nd, 2019 at 12:56 PM ^
So, there have actually been studies made; I used to be firmly in your camp, but I've been convinced. Basically, the leverage of each possession increases toward the end of the game. Even though two points in the first half are worth the same as two points in the second half, the effect upon winning or losing differs because you have more time to recover. So, if you're going to have a player limited by foul trouble, you want his minutes to come as late In the game as possible.
Anyway, in this case, it's hard to blame Beilein for benching Teske and Livers when you saw how the game was being officiated, and if you take the opponent into account. Iowa drives at the basket, and the officials were calling a ton of ticky-tack fouls in the first half. Beilein did eventually put Livers back out there for a couple of minutes, and he was immediately attacked on defense. IIRC, Beilein pulled him back out and put in Castleton.
If Beilein had put Teske back out with two fouls, he would have picked up his third or he would have watched Iowa dunk. (Or, both).
February 2nd, 2019 at 9:54 AM ^
This is exactly why this teams Achilles heal us the lack of bench depth. We really need Johns and/or Dejulius to develop into useful players but it is getting a little late for that.
February 2nd, 2019 at 10:17 AM ^
When you want to complain about refs calls look at yourself in the mirror and say, yep I'm a homer.
February 2nd, 2019 at 10:32 AM ^
You can complain about reffing and not be a homer. I thought the reffing was just okay last night. Thought some of the calls early were the refs trying to establish not letting either team get handsy. Of course, Michigan had some really bad fouls that you just can't commit. However, the non-call on the Iggy "dunk" was unbelievably bad. It was almost like the ref had so much time that he convinced himself he wasn't going to anticipate the call, and then blew it.
February 2nd, 2019 at 10:27 AM ^
We need to secure the tip-off better. That is the key to victory. Michigan is 17-0 when they win the tip-off and 3-2 when they lose it.
/s
February 2nd, 2019 at 10:41 AM ^
February 2nd, 2019 at 10:53 AM ^
We were screwed by the officials in this game from the opening minutes. Teske, Livers, Poole and Simpson were all put in foul trouble in the beginning part of the first half that severely limited how we could play defense, obviously gave Iowa free points, and also exposed our big man depth. After they built that early lead, there was really not much we could do in order to defend them. That early lead also led to our offense becoming panicked and forcing things
February 2nd, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
I wonder how much other teams have to pay off the referees if all these conspiracy theories are true. Because it is a giant B10 referee conspiracy against us, amirite?
February 2nd, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
We lost for the second time this year, to a good team on the road. Do we really need "perspective"? Lets just get on to the next one.
February 2nd, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
Unless the offense gets better this team can't win 6 games in a row in March. Tell me the last time a team with an offense ranked 45th like ours is currently won the national title.
February 2nd, 2019 at 12:58 PM ^
People react too harshly to losses in basketball. Sometimes shots don’t fall, a few key calls go the other direction, and the opposing team has a good night. Iowa is a good team, and this loss isn’t a big deal.
Having said that, the offense this season, in my opinion, isn’t capable of winning a national championship. Our pace of play is also near the bottom nationally. Add those two things together and that makes us prime to be upset come tourney time. A slow pace of play isn’t detrimental to season success (see us this year and Virginia every year), but it is detrimental to post season success (see Virginia and other slow tempo teams every year).
February 2nd, 2019 at 1:16 PM ^
You almost, but not quite, have a point.
Has Michigan had postseason success under Beilein? I'd argue, yes -- and with the same slow pace. Wisconsin reached the Final Four in 2014 and 2015 with their snails' pace tempo.
Again, Michigan came within one game of winning the national championship last year with an offense that wasn't much better than this one -- and a much worse defense. Everyone who's currently saying that "you can't win the national championship with a bad offense" was probably saying "you can't win the national championship with a bad defense" a few years ago.
Few teams in the country will be elite on both sides of the ball at the same time. The ones that are will have the best chance to win the title, of course, but that doesn't mean that no other team can do so.
Anyway, what you really mean to say is that a slow pace favors the less-talented team. The fewer possessions there are in the game, the more valuable each is, and therefore the higher the ratio of luck to skill in the result. I might win a one-shot free throw shooting contest with Steph Curry. I'd have no chance in a ten-shot contest.
But, that's equally true during the regular season and postseason. Villanova was an average-paced team last year -- AdjT 68.7 (vs. Michigan's 64.9). In 2016, they were below-average -- AdjT 66.0. 2014 UConn won the national title with the 39th ranked offense and the 254th ranked tempo (63.2, with the 35-second shot clock) -- in that case, I'd argue that they benefited greatly from the slow tempo, because they beat several teams that were more talented than they were.
February 2nd, 2019 at 2:44 PM ^
Slow pace is fine, but teams like Virginia and Wisconsin (from 14/15) have/had much more efficient offenses than us.
The issue comes when we face teams that have more efficient offenses than us, and play at a higher tempo and force us into that tempo. If that happens, it's a recipe for disaster.
Also, I would never look at 2014 UConn to prove a point. Yes, they did win the title, but they were an anomalous team in several ways (didn't win a conference title, tourney title, or have any McDonalds All Americans - the only champion since 78 to not have any of those things). I think it's better to look at most of the other title winners to see what they did to win the title
February 2nd, 2019 at 2:51 PM ^
Sure, but their defenses weren't as good. People just keep underrating defense.
Michigan actually does extremely well up-tempo, because they play excellent transition defense. (Just ask North Carolina). The problem comes when they panic, which is what I felt like I saw on offense last night.
You're right that 2014 UConn is anomalous, but, in a way, that's my point. There's no one single recipe for success. That was not a good basketball team -- they got lucky and won a title. It happens. Thus: (a) Michigan can win a title, because they're undeniably better than that team, and (b) if Michigan doesn't win a title -- which is the more likely scenario -- it doesn't mean they weren't a good team.
BTW, because this probably doesn't deserve its own thread but I feel compelled to mention it: Va Tech just beat a top 25 team, on the road, by scoring 47 points. There's no single formula for victory.
February 2nd, 2019 at 1:03 PM ^
They won 5 straight last year with an offense that only scored a point per possession in one of them.
No matter what you may think, the object of the game is not to score as many points as possible. The object is to score more than your opponents do. There are multiple ways to do that, one of which is to have an elite defense. Michigan rode its defense to the national championship game last year, and they're much better on defense this year than they were last.
Look, the odds are that Michigan won't win the national championship. That's true for literally every single team in the country. But they're capable of it -- they're one of a handful of teams with a legitimate shot, no matter how negative you want to be all the time.
Michigan scored 84 points against UNC, 73 at Villanova (in 64 possessions), 76 against Purdue (in 62 possessions!). This team is capable of good offensive performance.
In the real world, teams don't play at exactly the same level every game. That doesn't mean they can't win six in a row. It just means that they'll need some things to go right -- which, again, is true for every single team in the country.
February 2nd, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
Some of y'all need to back off the ledge.
I still think this team can do well in the NCAA tournament. Things look like this time and time again and it's always Michigan making a run in March while the other Big Ten teams hilariously choke (Sparty included, as of late).
March Madness is a different beast. There's no home cooking officiating and no ridiculous crowd acting like their team is fighting for the fate of the world when they play Michigan. Yes, fans of all the teams show up to support their guys, but the environment is largely neutral. Michigan has performed admirably at neutral sites under Beilein, and there's no reason we should expect that to change.