Do you guys consider Penn State a rival?
Tbh this probably isn't board-worthy, but I don't really care and am interested in it so I'll throw it out anyway.
Was talking to a Penn State fan, and the two B1G teams they as a fanbase hate the most are supposedly us and OSU. This got me thinking, while OSU and MSU are obviously the main rivals, after that there isn't a team I want Michigan to beat more on a yearly basis than PSU. '94, '97, '02, '05, '06, '13 (albeit in a different way) were all great games.
I personally don't really care about ND and that series, and would've preferred to keep that schedule spot open for another P5 series (like the canceled Arkansas and VT games), and the Minnesota series, while an awesome tradition and the coolest rivalry trophy story, just isn't that compelling on a year to year basis.
So what say you, Michigan Internet, is PSU a rival? Wisconsin? Illinois (lol)?
I'll hang up and listen.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:06 PM ^
No. But I still hate them.
IMO, OSU is rival #1, ND is rival #2 (assuming we continue to play them), and MSU is rival #3. The end.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:07 PM ^
I thought Rutgers was our rival
September 21st, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
No. For me it's OSU, ND, a big gap, MSU and everyone else. I don't want to play ND every year either but I care more about winning that game than any other besides OSU.
Being morally repugnant certainly adds a tinge of cosmic justice to the game, but disdain doesn't make them a rival to me.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:17 PM ^
Honestly, I think the ND rivalry over MSU narrative is BS. Not only is Michigan State an in-state rivalry, we play in the same division and our chance at the BTT game basically begins and ends with that game every year. We lost this year to ND and it did absolutely nothing to our BIG chances and arguably nothing to CFB Playoff chances. I know there is a lot of history between the schools but we have only played them like 40 times.
Frankly, I think both Michigan v. Michigan State and Notre Dame v. Michigan State are bigger rivalries than Michigan v. Notre Dame.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:25 PM ^
I like seeing us beat Notre Dame but I'm pretty much over that game at this point. It doesn't hurt our big ten title or playoff chances in any way. I'm still not over the MSU or OSU games from last year, and I won't be unless we win this year.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:31 PM ^
Yeah, it took me until about the 14:00 minute mark of the first quarter of the Michigan v. ND game this year to realize that I did not need more Michigan v. ND in my life.
September 21st, 2018 at 4:38 PM ^
I mean there's plenty of other posts here that tell you its not BS. Rivalries aren't about what affects your chances the most because then Indiana or Maryland would be a bigger rival than ND. It's about history, the prestige of each program and how you personally feel about beating them. MSU is another B10 game for me. ND is something that shoves it in the face of many people I knew growing up and all the fawning attention they get anytime they scrape 2 wins together.
September 21st, 2018 at 6:43 PM ^
Not only do we need to beat MSU because they are in our division, us native Michiganders have MSU family/friends that we need to silence with a victory.
September 22nd, 2018 at 8:32 AM ^
In now way is ND a bigger rival than Osu and Msu, they are barely even a rival, weve only played them like 30 times ever.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
Rutger, then everyone else.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:10 PM ^
Yes, but they are a distant 4th and our hatred of Scott Frost could have them replaced by UNL at 4 if Nebraska stops sucking.
Our Football Rival list goes like this:
1) OSU
2) MSU
3) ND (note MSU jumped ND after we stopped playing annually)
...
4) PSU
5) Iowa (because of the lack of medical care for Speight)
6) UNL
...
7) Minney, Purdue, Northwestern
...
10) Rutgers (only because they have beaten us and MD hasn't)
11) Maryland
September 21st, 2018 at 2:12 PM ^
Md beat us the same year Rutgers did
September 21st, 2018 at 2:16 PM ^
Was that during our 8 year hiatus from football?
September 21st, 2018 at 2:21 PM ^
The lack of medical care for Speight was Purdue, not Iowa
September 21st, 2018 at 2:22 PM ^
It was Purdue who told Speight to walk up the street to the clinic, right, now Iowa?
September 21st, 2018 at 2:11 PM ^
OSU and ND are what I consider our two biggest rivals. These are national programs with storied histories that rival our own. The games matter more than just a win or a loss on our record.
I don't consider PSU a rival in the same vein I don't consider Wisconsin a rival. They're just a good conference opponent. There is no bad blood or anything else that takes beyond being a tough game.
I absolutely hate losing to MSU but I don't consider them a rival because I have zero respect for the program and their fan base. The natural order of things is where we beat them unless the clock operator cheats or something similarly nefarious happens.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:15 PM ^
Your last paragraph is just stupid. Just because you don't respect them, doesn't mean they're not a rival. I don't respect a damn thing about OSU, but they are the chief rival.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:27 PM ^
Yeah, I'm not buying that either. If anything, the fact that they are as gross and despicable as they are makes them more of a rival, not less. And the series is like a dead heat since the "modern era" of college football began (1990ish). They are a rival. There is no point in arguing otherwise.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:12 PM ^
OSU, MSU and Notre Dame.
I view Minnesota, PSU and Nebraska as minor rivals a good step and a half behind the other three.
September 21st, 2018 at 5:04 PM ^
Yes, this and i will add that for some people MSU is bigger than OSU, particularly for people that live in MIchigan like me.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:13 PM ^
I think 25 years ago when PSU first joined the conference, when Michigan was having its way with OSU, there was some rivalry going on. I think this was especially so with the fans; PSU fans lamenting having to join the BT thus making national championship runs impossible due to the soft conference schedule. BT fans, and especially Michigan fans wanted nothing more than to disabuse the Ninny Lions of that notion.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:19 PM ^
I thought the entire premise of conference expansion was to get our biggest rival - Rutgers - into the same conference, even in the same division so that we could play for the "Who Peed In The River?" Trophy every year.
In all seriousness though, no, I do not consider Penn State a rival, but it is among the games I look forward to each season because it usually means something in terms of trajectory towards an as yet undecided bowl for both programs.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:19 PM ^
They aren't any more of a rival than Wisconsin or Iowa. A game I want to see us win? Absolutely. But not on the rival scale.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:20 PM ^
Yes 100% without a doubt PSU is Michigan's rival. Notre Dame is not.
...this is not true but would help a bit to mitigate the "Harbaugh can't beat rivals!! argh! whine! cry!" narrative
September 21st, 2018 at 2:22 PM ^
Are they disgusting? Yes. Do I hate them and want to beat them every time we play? Yes. Are they usually a pretty good team? Yes.
But definitely not a rival. That's reserved for OSU...and, to a lesser degree, for ND and MSU.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^
James Franklin doesn't have rivals. Its just like playing Akron every week in his eyes.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:26 PM ^
No, I don't consider them a rival. They're a team I want to beat because they're between us and a Big Ten Championship, and they're a program I don't particularly like because of, you know, rampant child rape, but they're not a rival in the way that OSU and MSU are. There's nothing "on the line" besides conference standings with them, there's no deep history, they're just a good team in our division.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
I really only hated Penn State when Hackenberg started for them and after watching Barkley destroy us on those first few drives last year, I started to hate them a little more. But I will never forget the Sankdusky trial, that man is scum. And PSU is now worthless to me after the way they handled that situation.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
I really only hated Penn State when Hackenberg started for them and after watching Barkley destroy us on those first few drives last year, I started to hate them a little more. But I will never forget the Sankdusky trial, that man is scum. And PSU is now worthless to me after the way they handled that situation.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
There are only a few schools that I actually am very happy when they lose to us or to anyone else because they have the biggest asshole fanbases. And those are, in order:
OSU
MSU
Penn State (not a rival, though)
Oh, and looky looky, recently all three have shown themselves to be base losers by casting aside any sense of principle or decency in defense of their beloved football coach.
Conversely, I don't really have any deep-seated animosity toward any other fanbase. Not Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, or even Notre Dame honestly.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:33 PM ^
Not to me...
- Arch-Rival = OSU
- In-State Rival = MSU
- Bitter Hatred Rival* = ND
- Trophy Rival = Minnesota
- "Rival" = Rutgers
*Note: Bitter Hatred™ is not reserved exclusively for Notre Dame, allowing me to also at times bitterly hate MSU and OSU, and to ensure ND does not take any pleasure from being an exclusively hated rival.
September 22nd, 2018 at 8:35 AM ^
Pretty accurate, although I think MSU has inched closer to "Archrival" status lately.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:35 PM ^
They aren't a rival, they are a good team we play every year. There is a difference between the two.
However post their reaction to Joe Pa I've enjoyed beating them more than any team.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:38 PM ^
I do. My wife's boss is a rabid psu fan. We're always going back and forth. It's a good natured rivalry though. Not like with the turds in East Lansing or Columbus
September 21st, 2018 at 2:41 PM ^
there is only 1 first tier rival: OSU
there are a couple of 2nd tier rivals: MSU, NfD,
tier 3 would be Minnesota
PSU might fall into tier 2 but the history isn't there as with MSU and NfD so tier 3 might be a better fit.
though FUCK penn state and their delusional joepa loving fans.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:50 PM ^
Heck no.
OSU & MSU definites.
Most consider ND I think.
Minnesota a bigger rival in my eyes b/c of Little Brown Jug as first trophy game.
I think longevity and tradition matter when identifying a rival and with Penn State, it is just not there. Maybe in several years.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^
"Let's discuss our arbitrary definitions of a rivalry"
There, fixed the title for you.
September 21st, 2018 at 2:55 PM ^
They're more amoral shitgibbons than a rival.
September 21st, 2018 at 3:00 PM ^
Rivals
Ohio St.
Michigan St.
Notre Dame
Rivals ;)
Minnesota
Teams who inexplicably think they are Rivals:
Illinois
Rutger
Division Foes:
PSU
Conference Foes:
Wisconsin
Iowa
Nebraska
Conference Gnats who don't go away and die like they should
Northwestern
Indiana
Bowl Rivals we always beat
Florida
Bowl Rivals we always lose to
USC
Other:
Maryland
Purdue
$EC / Pete Finebaum
September 21st, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
Illinois - I've had numerous conversations with Illinois fans who think we're rivals. Each time, I am surprised! That said, I bet this happens to OSU a lot - when you are at the top, everyone wants to beat you. That used to be us...
<sadface>
September 21st, 2018 at 3:02 PM ^
I'll be the devil's advocate to most of you. I DO think they're quickly becoming a rival, at least to the younger generation. For me, it really started to take shape in 2016 when we really put a beatdown on them. And then last year they did the same to us, trying to run up the score even more on the last play of the game with starters still in. DB-move by Franklin. What's more, Franklin then makes that Super Bowl/Akron remark. I think those seeds of legit bad blood, and the fact that it's been a pretty even matchup recently (unlike Ohio State, unfortunately...) makes it a game that I look forward to just as much as Michigan State. So, if it looks like rivalry game, feels like a rivalry game, and if our coaches hate each other (which for me is a must in a rival), then I say it's a rivalry game. :D
September 21st, 2018 at 3:13 PM ^
I feel like it is a generational thing. Being a younger guy (graduated 2 years ago) I didn't have the yearly games vs ND during school, and the PSU game provided a big game environment with a ton of visiting fans and usually a competitive, impactful game.
September 21st, 2018 at 3:26 PM ^
I agree. I feel like a lot of the people here are a little too legalistic when it comes to who our "rivals" are. I hate to break this tough stuff news, but there was a time when OSU, MSU, and ND weren't our rivals. Rivalries aren't some super elite club that only a few respective schools can and will ever get into. And I understand where people come from when they say "we need tradition/history/geography to have an official rivalry". Welp. The endzone is blue, we have maize jerseys, we give players historical jersey numbers, we play night games, the big ten is at 14 teams, etc.. History is continually being made.
I have a strong dislike for Franklin, the school, the fans, etc. I want to beat them when they're good and when they're bad. Feels like a rivalry to me.
September 21st, 2018 at 3:23 PM ^
Official rivals list:
1. OSU - well duh
2a. MSU - in-state hatred
2b. Notre Dame - historical best two programs
3. Minnesota - but only because of the Jug
4. Anyone else
September 21st, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
No. "Unrivaled" is their tag line. If we declare them a rival, it would be pathetic on our part. At least that's how their fan base would take it. I'm not dealing with that BS, and I certainly can't care enough to fight about it with them.
September 21st, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
From Michigan's point of view, there are three true rivals - ohio state, michigan state, and notre dame. We have decades upon decades of history with them and tradition still counts.
Penn State is a johnny-come-lately in that sense. There have been some great games and maybe they can be considered a "secondary" rival, so to speak, but when you think of "Michigan Rivalry," PSU isn't one of the first few teams to roll off the tongue.
Looking at it from PSU's point of view, though, it makes sense that Michigan and osu are considered their rivals. Coming from being an "elite" independent to being in the Big Ten, they had to prove themselves. Of course, the only way to prove their mettle was to beat the Big Two - Michigan and ohio state. Given the geographic proximity and relative "status" of these programs, it only makes sense that PSU would view us and osu as its primary rivals - Land Grant Trophy notwithstanding.
September 21st, 2018 at 3:30 PM ^
No but I enjoy beating them more than the average team.