SIAP: Meyer broke the law in deleting text messages
"Fred Gittes, a veteran open records lawyer in Columbus, said any elimination of texts on Meyer’s university-issued phone related to his coaching responsibility would break Ohio’s open records law."
The article also goes on to say that if the NCAA ever needs to evaluate a recruiting issue, he is likely to be in trouble with them as well. NOT that I am holding my breath that either someone in the state of Ohio or the NCAA will ever make this an issue for him or OSU.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^
If you break a law and there is nobody to prosecute or arrest you, did you break a law?
August 26th, 2018 at 8:01 PM ^
Yes, but it speaks volumes about equality before the law.
August 27th, 2018 at 5:03 AM ^
And to paraphrase George Orwell, some coaches are more equal than others.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^
This topic was already posted.
I'll play along, though. Nothing will happen. The investigation didn't find he deleted texts. It found he inquired about deleting texts. No one is going to open another investigation for this shit. No one at OSU cares.
Time to move on. Beat OSU.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^
This topic was already posted.
I'll play along, though. Nothing will happen. The investigation didn't find he deleted texts. It found he inquired about deleting texts. No one is going to open another investigation for this shit. No one at OSU cares.
Time to move on. Beat OSU.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^
The point isn't, "did the investigation find deleted texts." The point is that whether he intended to delete them or not, them not being there on a university-issued phone, is breaking the open records law. Technically, it is not an OSU issue, its a State of Ohio one. Again, not holding my breath that the authorities in the state of Ohio will prosecute in any way, but those should be available for public record. Look at the deep shit Hugh Freeze got in because of them.
August 27th, 2018 at 5:53 AM ^
In less than 24 hours of finding out that there would be an investigation he inquired about how to delete old texts and then all of his old texts were deleted. Even an honest cooler pooper can see what was happening, they just don't care that it happened, because they would rather Urban cover his tracks than be exposed.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^
Although top Ohio State lawyers and athletic officials were aware of this records’ request, “no one appears to have actually checked Coach Meyer’s phone or even approached him about the requests,” the investigation found.
I mean, when they said that they would investigate this, they did not promise that it would ever be in danger of being a thorough investigation, so you certainly cannot fault Ohio State for keeping its promise to the public that this would, in fact, be a sham. They simply didn't word it as such.
August 26th, 2018 at 9:06 PM ^
I'm sure the Powell police department will do a thorough investigation and eventually find that there is a terminology change to make sure Meyer is unscathed.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^
This is a cool story bro moment. Nobody expects anything to happen from this, Urban Meyer IS Ohio. He’s now above any judgement unlike in Florida. He knows it .. he can do no wrong in their eyes. That’s why he was unapologetic at the news conference.
Let’s beat his ass on the field this year & wait for his heart errr memory issues to flare up again & leave with his tail between his legs
August 26th, 2018 at 7:50 PM ^
And OSU will probably throw him a party for doing it. I hate OSU so much
August 26th, 2018 at 7:51 PM ^
If OSU was ever going to ever care about Meyer deleting text messages, they would’ve shown it by now.
The only way any further action would be taken against Meyer is if some external organization (i.e. the NCAA, outside lawyers or law enforcement) forced OSU’s hand.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^
So who here is going to go to Columbus and perform the citizen's arrest of Ubran?
August 26th, 2018 at 8:00 PM ^
I posted the ohio code on this a while ago, in the earlier thread where this was discussed at length.
It's a civil infraction.
August 26th, 2018 at 9:25 PM ^
"I AM THE LAW."
August 27th, 2018 at 9:07 AM ^
I see many similarities.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:58 PM ^
FOIA laws can be upheld in court and his phone texts can be recovered. He will probably lose his phone or have it destroyed like the Clinton team did.
I am surprised that no media outlet has filed this FOIA request in court, so to make sure all phones would be preserved.
It was obvious, Urban was scared to death about his past texts.
August 26th, 2018 at 10:12 PM ^
You're gonna have to pry that phone from Urban's cold dead fingers.
August 26th, 2018 at 8:02 PM ^
Too bad for us nothing else will happen. That piece of shit got off easy in this.
August 27th, 2018 at 1:11 AM ^
That’s why I think many of us look like insincere pieces of shit....that comment right there and so many others in that same league. “Too bad for us”... it’s supposed to be “Too bad for CS”
This was never supposed to be outrage over the fact that the program didn’t crumble and ours was lifted up through better recruiting and their loss of a .900 win average coach. It was ALWAYS supposed to be “How can that POS get away with protecting a wife beater, I can’t believe she will never see these people punished”
Im pretty disappointed on a daily basis to see that most on here are upset that this didn’t turn into a positive for us and our team and not sympathy for a woman who got her ass beat by a bitch of a man and got away with it for years by administrations turning a blind eye to what was right in front of their faces. Shame on a lot of you for being more upset about our program not getting a leg up from this instead of the big picture.
August 27th, 2018 at 1:58 AM ^
There’s also a third option.
I’m a decent person, so I am against domestic violence and would like perpetrators to be punished. But I have never connected the Meyer issue to Courtney Smith, because firing him wouldn’t affect her in any meaningful way.
At this risk of sounding callous, I don’t care about Courtney Smith at all as it pertains to Meyer. I hope her ex is punished to the full extent of the law, I hope her divorce settlement left her in a good position, and I hope she never has to deal with such a relationship in the future. I hope she lives a wonderful life. I just don’t see Meyer being fired would matter to her, other than some sort of retributive peace of mind.
Nor do I want OSU to fire Meyer to help Michigan. I suspect they’d hire another top coach, continue to recruit well, and be a top program immediately.
If I’m honest, the people who are framing this as a matter of justice for Courtney Smith are just as deluded as those of us who are framing it as a matter of it helping Michigan. Both are fundamentally misreading the real issue.
I just think that people and their institutions should do the right thing, and I think firing Meyer would have been the right thing morally and ethically. I also think it would have been the right thing for OSU - they wouldn’t have to deal with the current negative backlash, they might have even garnered some praise for having done the right thing, and, as I said, I don’t think the football team would have suffered in any meaningful way.
August 27th, 2018 at 7:42 AM ^
Here’s the reason “a good settlement” includes “taking down Urban”—if you think an abused person simply wants money, then you’ve never been abused or seen it happen to someone you love. For Courtney Smith, I guarantee she would feel more psychologically healed that scUM get repercussions for being a wife beater. She wants validation that how she’s been treated has caused her great mental harm—she wants validation that she is not just “out for vengeance” or a “vindictive” b___ or c____.
Meyer was the guy who, with his cultural power as a premier football coach, persuaded Smith to not destroy her family (ie. the Bruce name and Zach’s earning potential) so he would t have to fire his “apprentice.”
So yeah, the only reason Michigan fans should be happy is if a victim who has been vilified gets retribution for those who have caused her great harm. For us, we should feel better that corrupt morality gets punished to the appropriate consequence—not getting to raise young men under his false mantras of making them good citizens.
Harbaugh being able to throttle Meyer for years to come would be better for Michigan. Otherwise, the obnoxious Buckeye fans will always blame losing Meyer and diminish Harbaugh’s future successes. Again, what good does it really do Michigan fans for Meyer to be fired for them? It does not. If Meyer makes it to this year’s The Game, this will be a Great Wall for our our team to break though. If he is there and we lose—then Ohio State fans will just feel great. If he is not, they blame losing on a. Assistant coach. If we win and they have a temp coach, they’ll talk shit about that. So again, what benefits Michigan other than a 50/50 probability of a win?
August 28th, 2018 at 12:21 PM ^
I didn’t even begin to imply a Courtney Smith only wants money. But in our legal system, money is the primary form of recovery. To that end, I hope she gets all she wants.
And I’m sure she would like to get Meyer fired, which I mentioned as her retributive peace of mind. But our legal institutions don’t work that way, by and large.
Again, Meyer should have been fired. He should have been fired because he failed his employer (amongst others, including Courtney Smith). But I don’t think he should have been fired in order to provide peace of mind for Courtney Smith. That’s a bridge too far, and one that is rightly, in my estimation, not a legal remedy for her.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^
Reader 71, I hope it won't kill you, to hear from me that this is one of the handful of the best MGoBoard posts on this entire saga. You don't sound "callous" to me. You sound like a reasoned legal voice to me.
Not only is it unclear how a firing of Urban Meyer would help Courtney Smith; it was never clear to me how a firing of Zach Smith would help Courtney Smith.
It sure looks like Zach was not the kind of guy that OSU or the Big Ten or the NCAA wants as a representative. But that's not a legal issue. And like you, I just do not understand how this was ever a "justice for Courtney" issue. Ever. She's had a lawyer representing her in domestic issues for years. She's had unfettered access to law enforcement whenever she felt like she needed it. The hysterical MGoBoard claims of Zach Smith as "wife beater" and his "beating the shit out of Courtney" are not remotely shown by any public allegations prior to this having become a media circus.
I want to repeat that the one thing upon which I am in major agreement with Brian Cook and the MGoCommentariat; it is the "spoliation" and "public records access" aspects of Urban Meyer's actions. I think that there will be much more on that. It is a very complicated claim I think; and one bit of precedent was the ESPN v Ohio State case going back to the Tresell/EdRife/FERPA claim emails. In which Ohio State seems to have gotten a remarkably favorable ruling from the state's supreme court. Ohio State has lost a few public records cases in their supreme court, but only a few. Public Records Act compliance has been a big problem, and a big deal, at Ohio State for many years.
August 28th, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^
Let me say I disagree on your assertions as they pertain to Zach Smith. The evidence might not reach beyond a reasonable doubt, but as a commenter on a blog and not a juror, I’m applying a preponderance of the evidence standard. I think he’s likely a wife beater.
The PD changing his arrest record also casts some doubt on the evidence itself.
August 26th, 2018 at 8:17 PM ^
There is a rule of evidence that says that a court can draw an adverse inference if a party in possession of relevant evidence fails or refuses to produce it in response to a valid request or summons. If Meyer and his deputy deleted messages, a court is entitled to presume and find as a fact that the messages would be adverse to their interests and make the inferences about what the messages said, aside from and in addition to any inference about consciousness of guilt. All we need is a valid claim by someone with standing and it should be like shooting fish in a barrel as my first boss and mentor used to say.
August 26th, 2018 at 8:24 PM ^
“Heh, I just hope he doesn’t arrest me!” ~ Columbus Chief of Police
August 26th, 2018 at 8:53 PM ^
Nice, comment of the day!
August 26th, 2018 at 8:25 PM ^
Good thing the B1G said they’re okay with all the findings
August 26th, 2018 at 8:33 PM ^
At this point the most annoying part about this whole thing to me is that the Big Ten basically just said "Great job Ohio State. You handled this fairly and impartially." My dream is that the national medial (ESPN) just goes on a vendetta against him for calling fake news and either mentions the scandal every time OSU comes up or just doesn't cover Ohio State games so they get zero exposure. Will never happen but it would be great. What will actually happen, what a lot of the media even predicted will happen, and certainly what OSU anticipated will happen, is that after the 4th game of the season no one will ever mention this again until he either retires or OSU badly covers up his next scandal.
August 26th, 2018 at 8:44 PM ^
I thought that would be the case, but I’m not so sure anymore, just judging by the way this was talked about several times during the Hawaii game last night. For sure everyone involved thinks that will be the case, but I think they misjudged the social climate we are in on this one. Two years ago, maybe, but today, not so sure...
August 26th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^
Cant FOIA a burner
August 26th, 2018 at 10:15 PM ^
You miss the point. This has nothing to do with us and whether we get some pound of flesh. This has to with what was done and overlooked either to avoid accountability or just give the appearance of it. Any response to this matter, would have to be initiated by the media. That's never going to happen in Columbus.
But the other question is this: if Meyer never deleted any texts or phone messages, how come he never produced his phone so that could be determined? Because there came a point when he would have to acknowledge that his phone records were being sought, and memory loss either by prescribed medication or simple forgetfulness is not an excuse for denying access or retrieving that documentation.
And even if you conclude that he his not personally culpable for failing to respond to a records request, the university is. And this doesn't have to be about nailing the coach; this can be about showing up the school.
Because in conspiring to protect Meyer, others took measures to aid in that effort. So other heads could roll. At the very least, the fact that neither Meyer nor Gene Smith produced documentation sought as part of an official media request, whether by FOIA or not, the evidence shows that football department officials took actions designed to coverup whatever they felt might damage Meyer personally and the football program as a whole.
August 26th, 2018 at 9:38 PM ^
This has come up before, and it is hardly a revelation. The Lantern requested his text messages before the meeting where he discussed sanitizing his phone. If someone could prove he deleted messages, it would violate the law and arguably give you the right to an order telling the school to do everything possible to restore the text messages. There are no criminal penalties associated with the action, but there could be additional civil penalties.
August 26th, 2018 at 10:04 PM ^
Would the Lantern journalists be able to push their initial FOIA request or sue or something to get this into a courtroom?
August 26th, 2018 at 10:30 PM ^
Yes, of course. They could do it. You could do it if you could prove a certain standing. The Lantern or McMurphy would have the greatest reason to do it. And if McMurphy were still working for
ESPN, then he might have the resources to make the case.
What you really need is connection to a media access attorney, typically one working for a state press association. That is usually how these issues are fought. When you stir the shit in cases like this, the dscovery process can take you anywhere.
I doubt The Lantern would press the cause, though I think other school papers like the Michigan Daily would have no qualms doing it if this happened at Michigan. But maybe I'm wrong about that. The Ohio AP or one of its members wrote the story, so they would be the logical one to actually take it to the next step. Even the Ohio Press Association could take it on for its membership if prompted.
The reason I think this is a big deal is because the local media buckled and played propagandist with this story even when it was shown to be weak in every aspect of reporting on this, and I mean having a national independent reporter drop the dime on Meyer and his program.
August 26th, 2018 at 10:58 PM ^
I do live in Ohio these days... :p
Thanks for the answer! I'd upvote if I could.
August 26th, 2018 at 9:56 PM ^
Meyer could kill 5 hookers in the street and he wouldn't go to jail.
August 26th, 2018 at 10:15 PM ^
If Craig James can get away with it...
Allegedly.
August 26th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
Wonder if yall thought the same about Tommy boy ;) (they're both guilty)
August 27th, 2018 at 7:59 AM ^
Tom Brady erased messages from his personal phone where he could have any number of things. It is his right. Your beloved lying POS did this on a public property. He better not be doing personal shit on a phone funded by university.
August 26th, 2018 at 11:20 PM ^
Not only does OSU not care... they actively recruited and hired Meyer even after his issues at Florida became common knowledge. OSU had to have someone like Meyer to replace Jim Tressel, who was just as corrupt. Tattoogate? A drop in the bucket of a thoroughly corrupt regime. The ESPN account of Maurice Claret's ascension into football elite, with impermissible benefits a daily occurrence, described how Tressel himself was actively involved, calling up car dealers, giving Claret a booster's name and telling him to go visit. It's all in the ESPN story, in my posting history if anyone has not seen it. Unfortunately, when Claret stopped short of giving the NCAA what it would have needed to go after OSU, not wanting to take down Tressel and half the team, he got the worst of both worlds. His perks vanished and OSU was not dealt with as they should have by the NCAA.
It's taken me the last few days to really connect the dots. After the Cooper years, all OSU and its fans wanted was to win. Woody Hayes was gone and Michigan was now on equal footing with OSU. They really didn't care how, they regained dominance, or they would not have hired Tressel, who was already known to have provided cash and cars to players while he was at Youngstown State. Claret described how high school football players in Ohio knew they would be compensated for their talent if they played for OSU, and played well. Recruiting advantage, anyone? Well, after Tressel was busted, obviously Luke Fickell wasn't the man for the job, so who could they get, to continue the winning formula? A man with known ethics issues who would stop at nothing to win. Urban Meyer. He employs, and retains, a no-talent, loose cannon mess of a WR coach who takes high school coaches out to strip clubs? No problem if he brings Meyer those recruits.
It would probably be interesting to know what Meyer was afraid of being discovered in those text messages, I wonder if he was trying to cover something even more damaging than covering up domestic abuse. OSU has consistently nurtured a culture of corruption; in today's world it's not as easy to keep it all in-house.
August 27th, 2018 at 2:20 AM ^
And the hits just keep coming for Urban Liar.
August 27th, 2018 at 9:54 AM ^
Liar, Liar
August 27th, 2018 at 10:22 AM ^
Please report a bunch of fake recruiting issues where he's deleted the evidence to exonerate himself.
#popcorn
August 27th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
No shit Sherlock.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:37 AM ^
I'm sure Ohio courts will enforce Ohio law fairly when it comes to issues that affect Ohio State's football program.