TBT-Should Peters have been the starter from 1st game of season?
Here's a topic that's rarely been discussed. /s The board is so busy right now, but there will still be a lot of replies. /s If this was the old board, I'd get a ton of upvotes for starting this topic. /s
On to the topic.
Should Peters have started?
Yes. Reason? Because.
Thoughts? Comments?
I did. I also witnessed Speight complete a higher percentage of passes and have a higher QBR...
If you want to talk Speight's passing offense...
In his last 7 starts he threw 99/181 for 1066 yards, 6TD - 6INT (3 pick sixes) and had 5 fumbles. If you include these numbers against ncaa.com's 2017 QB stats Wilton would have ranked;
95th/111th in completion percentage with 55%
100th/111th in yards per completion with 10.77
105th/111th in yards per attempt with 5.89
In 2017, right up until Speight got hurt we were ranked 129th out of 130 FBS teams in red zone TD%. We were 1 for 10. Without Speight at the helm we climbed from 10% to 52%
These are critical statistical categories and Speight was not just bad, but bottom of the NCAA barrel bad. He peaked against Maryland in 2016 and has been downhill since. Many refuse to acknowledge this but the stats do not lie. For any of you who just know Speight would of "got back on track" if he stayed healthy have all blind hope and no logical evidence to support that claim.
Jim would NOT of been lambasted and labeled crazy for starting Peters over Speight. Clemson returning senior and starter Kelly Bryant might lose his job to a true freshmen this year. Nick Saban benched his 2nd year starting QB who led his last year's team to the national championship for a true frosh QB who only played garbage time all year. And he did it halfway thru the national championship game...that is crazy! Hurts had 17 passing TDs to only 1 INT all season long and ran for almost 900 yards. Yet Saban still had the balls to bench him and what's even crazier, it worked. Peters starting over Speight would have been on much less of a magnitude than this.
None of the QB last year were worth raising your eyebrow over---except Brandon Peters accuracy would at least catch the attention of an eyebrow.
But this year that's all different. Shea Patterson and Dylan McCaffrey will be worth the time for your eyebrow to raise for the next 4 years.
Then comes Cade McNamara.
Then, maybe, Harrison Bailey.
Brandon who?
If I turned left today while leaving my house instead of right, would you have started this topic?
Started?
I guess the whole Throwback Thursday thing is lost on you?
Absolutely not. Speight should have been handed the job and told to lead the team from day 1 based on his play from the prior year. If Speight had been given the confidence he needed from the staff last year, then I think we would've seen Speight be closer to the QB who played after the bye week in 2016.
My take as well.
Speight should have been the starter. He was the best QB on the roster, a returning starter as a RS JR. Had one awful game against Iowa the year before, one up and down game with a dead shoulder against OSU, and an otherwise very good season. He was a top 3 B1G QB.
I've been critical of how the staff handled Speight last offseason. I understand constant competition and the cream rises and all that, but you also have to handles certain situations individually, and Speight needed confidence from the staff. Speight's start was pretty rough last year with some of the changes to the offense and new receivers (recall: he lost two NFL WRs and an NFL TE), but I have little doubt it would have improved and opened up the offense over the course of the year. After Speight went down, the offense seriously condensed and the WRs mostly disappeared with both JOK and Peters.
Speight was the best option last year.
Something was not right about Speight even to start the season. Everyone claims we would have won more games with him starting the rest of the season, but I don't see it. He was missing throws from the first half of the season against Florida until he was hurt. I don't know if he never quite healed right, he was lacking confidence, or something else, but he was never the same after that hit against Iowa. We'll see what he does out West.
These are my thoughts as well. He just wasn't the same, whatever the reason.
This is why I contend that it really doesn't matter who our starting QB was at the beginning of last season was.
None of the QBs were ready and the poor O-Line play sealed the deal.
He was also throwing to freshman WRs when he had been throwing to senior NFL draft caliber WRs the year before. There's a huge difference in the importance of timing, route running, and strength requirement between WR in HS and in college. One of Bill Connelly's best indicators of offensive success is % of returning WR production, and Michigan lost something like 90% of their catches from 2016. Even with a top QB the offense would have struggled and looked disjointed.
"Otherwise a very good season". Are seasons only three games long?
Speight was nowhere close to very good most of the season. He was, at best, fine the first part of the season. When the team hit the garbage portion of the schedule - MSU, Illinois, Maryland - he lit things up. He was atrocious against Iowa and I guess get's an incomplete the rest of the way because of the shoulder injury.
His performance this year showed exactly why there should have been a competition: Because he isn't very good. He's fine. He's middle of the pack. He's okay. He's average. And he won the job because average is actually the best Michigan could produce last year.
He was a game manager as Harbaugh wanted him to be, but showed the ability to be more in some games (Illinois, MSU, Maryland, UCF). The Iowa game was terrible, but that happens at Iowa (ask JT Barrett). Speight was the best QB on the roster and I think his development was really hurt by the switch from Jed Fisch to Pep Hamilton - I think its been said that Hamilton preferred O'Korn basically from the start; how is Speight supposed to be confident instead of insecure with that guidance from his QB coach/OC?
In no way do I think Speight would have been fantastic, but he would've been fine to good; which is a lot better than we got out of O'Korn and Peters and probably good enough to beat MSU & OSU.
If a QB is that insecure and sensitive he has no business being anyone's starting QB. Also I never heard anyone preferred O'Korn from the start. If true that is news to me.
No way...Speight and every QB that comes through should expect to earn it in every camp. Which means showing leadership and dedication through the off-season (and that can happen even if he was recovering from injury. Plus if he's too injured to compete in camp then he's probably too injured to start).
Setting up a different set of standards around ONE guy, esp. at a leadership position, would be a disaster for team morale.
And besides...Speight did win the job in camp which is exactly what you want from your starting QB.
Its not about not competing - if he isn't going 100% or isn't doing the extra things he did to win the job originally, then absolutely he should lose that right - but if he is the unquestioned team leader from Day 1 then he can be confident to take shots, to call audibles, to be the leader of the offense. When he won the job, performed reasonably well, then was told to do it again, I think it didn't give him the ability to be the leader he needed to be because he always had to worry if the coaches would pull him for making a mistake or for changing plays, etc.
I think competing is extremely important, but at some point you need to empower the QB to be a coach on the field; that empowerment loses a lot when the QB is worried about being pulled for a bad pass.
You mean the QB who played well against the garbage portion of the schedule before falling apart against Iowa?
Disagree completely. No player should ever be handed anything. They should practice and work like they have to earn the start every day. Tom freakin Brady even said he competes every day like he is trying to win the starting job. Handing players things brings great risk for complacency and decreases competition. Not many people in the world love competition as much as Jim Harbaugh. How much would your back up QBs slack off if they knew from day 1 they had a zero percent chance to win the starting job?
Harbaugh filled Speight with enough confidence to make him believe he is a better QB than he actually is. In the Amazon series Speight said he was playing good last year and honestly believed it. Confidence was not his issue. Speight peaked in 2016 surrounded by NFL talent and a better QB coach. 2017 Speight showed his talent level when he was needed to carry the offense.
Look at his game log and tell me he should have started from game 1. Which performance would make anyone come to that conclusion?
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brandon-peters-1/gamelog/2…
Yes.
Maybe he wouldn't currently be in a battle for 3rd string with a true freshman.
Maybe he still would be not sure. He has alot of growing up to do mentally if he is ever going to be successful.
Not sure where you're getting your info, but Peters was second string out of spring ball. Unless Dylan puts on weight he is going to have a hard time making it through a season 6'5" and 199 lbs (last reported weight) could get broken in half. Especially if Bosa blindsides him.
The concerns about his frame are true, but way overblown. No coach is going to start a worse QB because he is more durable.
This is a case where you'd like to have him bulk up for his own good and the team's, but its not something that would keep him off the field on its own.
It doesn't even make sense on a theoretical level. If one guy gives you a better chance of winning, but a higher chance of injury, you still play him and maximize the chance of winning the games he plays in. Because when he is injured, you still go to the other guy who you would have starting anyways.
Brandon is not 2nd string.
You must've missed the Tom Brady boding shaming post
Joe Montana did not get to over 200 pounds until his 5th year in the pros. He had already won 1 Super Bowl, and was the MVP in the game, by then.
Funny how Mineral King is one of the VERY FEW on this blog that has been right, but he keeps on getting down votes. How MGoBoard that is!
No because he didn't win the job.
Nope. The state of the o-line didn't allow us to be able to care who was at qb with regard to their actual qb skills -- have to go with experience there.
How much time is the team getting to spend together this summer. I know coaches are limited, but player led events? I would assume shea and the receivers spend every minute of the day together, running routes and throwing? How much can they actually work together to where it's beneficial? Do position groups lift together in off season?
Yes, he should have. It was clear that Speight was not the guy this past season. He played poorly in every game. O’Korn looked good against Purdue, but other than that, he did not play well. It’s concerning that Peters shit the bed in the bowl game. But if you look at the performances of last year’s quarterbacks in the regular season, Peters was the best—and it’s not even close. Had he started the season, I think things would’ve gone better. At the very least, Peters would have more experience going into this year and he couldn’t have been worse than Speight or O’Korn.
Third out of fall camp last year for a reason.
Didn’t Pep come out and say that they misjudged Peters because he was quiet though?
Perhaps the same reason for his poor bowl performance. Peters admitted, before the bowl game, that he didn't or wouldn't study the playbook and had a knack for creating turnovers.
No. Speight was a very effective quarterback for much of the 2016 season. If he never got injured we probably would have beaten OSU and would have gone to the playoffs in 2016.
Oh no! What might have happened in the past if something changed?
Potato Salad!
An oldie, but goodie.
Just let 2017 go. It's over. We have a great team and QB this year. I'm ready for the 2018 season.
Let it go? Well then what's the point of Throwback Thursdays? j/k
Also, I am SO ready for 2018.
Well you're in luck! 2018 started over seven months ago.
*six months ago
Yes, definitely. /s Harbaugh should have cast aside the QB he told could be the best in college football for a RS Freshman who had never thrown a college pass. /s M would have had like 30 TD passes against Florida & won the National Championship before the first half was even finished. /s
Should maybe have given him the snaps that went to O'Korn though.
Still surprised that O'Korn wasn't drafted. /s
Even Brandon Peter's admits he wasn't ready. Why ask the question?
Does anyone remember the bowl game? Ton of time to prepare.. Wasn't his first start... 4.2 YPA, 0 TDs, 2 Ints.. No?
By this logic, Michigan's cornerbacks should all be benched, as they gave up 7.5 ypa, 2 TDs, and one of Brantley's best passing performances of the year.
The entire offense struggled in that game against SC; Evans and Higdon averaged about 3.0 ypc and also fumbled the ball near the goal line.
I mean, it's not new to say that fans typically base their entire perceptions on a player based on his last game, but people are reading WAY too much into that bowl game both ways.
Ok, well 2-2 as a starter. Never passed for even 200 yards in a game. Completion percentage below 53%. He's mediocre at best right now. It's been so long since we've had a decent quarterback that now when we see mediocre stats we think, "oh wow, this guy is good".
Before the bowl game he averaged 57% completion, 7.7 ypa, 4:0 TD:INT ratio, and was moving the offense along decently against Wisconsin before getting hurt. He wasn't fantastic, but he looked pretty good behind a pretty terrible line that absolutely failed the other 2 guys who lined up under center.
He had a bad game against USC. He also had the team on the doorway of going up 23-3 midway through the 3rd quarter before Higdon fumbled. Had they scored to go up 23-3, I think that game turns out way differently and people are a lot less worried.
He didn't have the team on the doorway of going up 23-3. The special teams and defense had the team on the doorway of going up 23-3. Michigan kicked 3 FGs in the first half despite great field position because of poor QB play. He was god-awful in that football game.
And you are really going to give him credit for his first 3 starts when he threw 14, 13, and 18 passes respectively while the team ran for nearly 900 yards!! Any QB on the Michigan depth chart could have won those games.
In reality, our defense dominated that bowl game up until all the wheels came off the offense and they had a nuclear meltdown.
Once our offense imploded, the defense soon followed suit. So I place the blame for the pathetic showing in the bowl game mostly on the offense.