JoePa Soon to be Out per Pete Thamel
Pete THamel of the New York Times just tweeted that Joe Pa will not coach next season.
PeteThamelNYTPete Thamel
November 8th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
Do they need a clean break from all things Sandusky? Does having played for Paterno suddenly become a liability rather than an asset?
November 8th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
The man is guilty of reporting the nasty details to his superiors, but not the police. Jeez, it's not like he suddenly becomes a horrible human being. He made an error in judgment - it's not like Paterno himself was doing these nasty things.
Who cares if the guy played for Paterno?
I think Princess Di one time had her hair cut by some broad whose sister had unprotected sex and whose uncle got caught drinking and driving. Let's burn Princess Di in effigy!
November 8th, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^
Well, if she knew about it and didn't report it to the proper authorities...
November 8th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
to report to his immediate superiors?
November 8th, 2011 at 12:44 PM ^
No, I don't. Like I said, it was an error. But that doesn't make him a horrible person who should be treated like a leper. Just because Al Golden played for Paterno back in 1985 (I have no idea when Golden was there) doesn't mean that Golden should be blacklisted from the job.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:33 PM ^
You're still ignoring that there could be a response to all this along the lines of "The school needs a clean break from this era and the horrible circumstances surrounding the scandal."
Paterno is not a leper, he'll be recognized for all the good he has done. But that doesn't change the fact that there will be at least someone advocating that the next staff must come from the outside to help the school move on. Where before it was assumed that Schiano or Golden would be the principal candidates based on their ties to Paterno's PSU, now, someone is going to say Schiano's out because he was a defensive coach under Sandusky, and Golden's out because he coached at PSU at a time when Sandusky had full access to the athletic facilities.
I'm not saying it's fair to Golden or Schiano, but it is a certain possibility. A few years from now, people won't look at it in such stark terms. But right now, this year, it might be a negiative to be the "continuity" candidate.
November 8th, 2011 at 2:30 PM ^
Actually not reporting that to the police does make him a horrible person, when he saw the AD was going to sit on the information it became his moral responsibility to report the information to the police. You could say molesting a child is just an error in judgement that doesn't make it ok. Paterno's inaction is despicable and there really is no defending it
November 8th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
I'm not disagreeing with you. I just said in the other thread that Paterno doesn't deserve to have this erase all the good he has done.
But you're ignoring the potential institutional response to the situation. Scandal hits, and many times you clean house entirely. No remnant of the former regime, even if that regime produced a ton of positives.
I'm not saying someone from the Paterno tree shouldn't or won't be hired, just asking the question of whether that has become a negative for a school that may be looking to clean house.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^
First, Joe Paterno has no superiors at PSU. He is one of the most powerful men in PA. Don't let his kindly old man image fool you. He could get the governor on the phone at 3:00 AM if he needed to.
Second, he made an error in judgment, yes, but a truly terrible one. It doesn't take much to call the cops (the real police - not the VP of the school) when you hear about a child rape from a witness whom you know well.
As for Golden, I see no reason to tar him with any of this, so I agree with you there. I'm also not attacking you. I do think, though, that you are underestimating the gravity of Paterno's failure here.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:44 PM ^
He reported the "nasty things" (not that's there's a word or phrase in English to describe the contents of the grand jury report), and when it was apparent that nothing significant had happened, that no police would come asking questions, and that Sandusky was still welcomed to campus with open arms, didn't say WTF? to anybody.
Don't get me wrong, I know that everybody, especially "great" men and women are flawed, but to stick your head in the sand once you've passed the buck to someone else on something this inhuman is disgraceful.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:48 PM ^
I understand it's disgraceful. All I'm saying is that he's not even alleged to have done anything wrong...except that he failed to report what SOMEONE ELSE did to the POLICE, even though he told people above him.
He made a mistake, and I admit that. But you're suggesting that a coach call the police on his own defensive coordinator, someone he's probably friends with and sees 6 or 7 days a week for hours and hours on end. He should have done it, but that can't be the easiest thing.
It would be much, much easier for someone higher up in administration to make that call.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^
Dude...you really need to stop downplaying JoePa's inaction. (He didn't do anything "except" not report what "SOMEONE ELSE" did!) JoePa's failure to do anything here is inexcusable, and the fact that he worked all week with Sandusky for hours and hours on end doesn't change that.
Yes, it would have been much, much easier for someone higher up in the administration to make that call. That doesn't excuse the fact that he didn't do it. Especially when it became apparent that no one else would.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:57 PM ^
Ugh. I'm not downplaying his inaction. I've said about three times that it was wrong. My point is this:
molesting boys =/= a failure to report someone else's molestation
Paterno effed up. That doesn't erase all the good things he's done in the world, just like a serial killer giving someone the Heimlich doesn't suddenly make him a saint.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^
"just like a serial killer giving someone the Heimlich doesn't suddenly make him a saint."
Good grief. Your analogies are mind-numbingly stupid.. And while failing to report the rape of a 10-year isn't the same thing as actually comitting the act, it's not a huge step up. Especially when it became readily apparent that no one else was going to involve the authorities. Who knows how many more kids suffered at the hands of Sandusky because no one did anything in 2002.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:58 PM ^
This shit happened almost ten years ago and there was no followup by JoePa? There is no justification for the failure to report the incident. Was it a crime? I don't know local statutes, but it sure was a moral failure to not take the next step.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:45 PM ^
Magnus, you're a coach with kids who trust you. Can you imagine knowing one of your fellow coaches was doing something like what Sandusky was, to children who trusted him, and NOT making sure to follow through? Paterno knew bad things were going on and turned a blind eye after telling the AD. Having read this blog since the haloscan days (and never logging in to post), I have a pretty good sense that you would have made absolutely certain it came to a stop. How many kids could have been saved had Paterno made certain it came to a stop?
You're getting lost in the logic that says it couldn't have been easy, and I agree with that. But come on, in that situation, you have to protect those kids. Period.
November 8th, 2011 at 2:12 PM ^
You're absolutely right. I'm not excusing his behavior. I'm saying that if there are multiple people who can report the issue, such as a) the head coach and Sandusky's friend or b) multiple university administrators, that call SHOULD be made by administration rather than the head coach.
You're damn right that I would report it if I knew about it. It's the right thing to do. That doesn't mean it would be easy, and if my AD said that he would call the police instead of me, then I certainly wouldn't argue.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:59 PM ^
I think you are missing the point that, at PSU, JoePa is more poweful than the AD/President, etc.
It absolutely should have been his call and he passed it off to someone else and never looked back. What a POS.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:29 PM ^
On paper, the AD is more powerful than JoePa.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:56 PM ^
On paper.
In reality he is not...if you can't fire a subordinate employee - THEY are more powerful than you. And JoePa is seen as the face of not only the football program but of the entire University.
November 8th, 2011 at 2:17 PM ^
You're absolutely right. I'm not excusing his behavior. I'm saying that if there are multiple people who can report the issue, such as a) the head coach and Sandusky's friend or b) multiple university administrators, that call SHOULD be made by administration rather than the head coach.
You're damn right that I would report it if I knew about it. It's the right thing to do. That doesn't mean it would be easy, and if my AD said that he would call the police instead of me, then I certainly wouldn't argue.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:21 PM ^
All this reminds me of those cases you read in Psych 101 about group psychology and how people will do some pretty disgusting things if they're not alone or not the first one to do them. Should JoePa have gone to the police and made sure something was getting done? Absolutely. But as much as we hate to believe it, there ARE some people in this very blog that would have done the same thing. If everyone in a position of power at the school was brushing it under the rug, it's hard to be the one to reveal the truth. It's a disturbing reality but it's true.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:01 PM ^
i realize it's his friend, but give me a fucking break.. If you knew your best friend is "raping" young boys you wouldn't call the fucking cops? get real
November 8th, 2011 at 1:04 PM ^
His "Mistake" sentenced even more kids to unspeakable horrors. This isn't like he didn't turn in his friend for recruiting violations, or stealing a pack of smokes from the local 5 and dime. This constitutes a willfull disregard for the welfare or countless CHILDREN.
JoePa does not desreve to finish out his life with anything left of his character intact let alone anything left of his association with the football program he built. He has to go and go now, and count himself lucky if he doesn't spend whats left of his miserable life behind bars.
How anyone can look at the grand jury testimony and think differently is sickening.
All that said, anyone who did not know what was going on should be free to come back to the program and coach.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:08 PM ^
FWIW, I agree with this 100%. FFS, we don't even know how much JoePa was even told.
It is probably right that his coaching career should end, and it's sadder than sad that this should be why. Guilty, essentially, of thinking too highly of a close friend. I'm not interested in winning the outrage contest by painting everyone with the same brush.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:16 PM ^
"we don't even know how much JoePa was even told."
Yeah we do. He was told about a rape. What else does he need to be told? I'm sure you are right that he thought too highly of a close friend, but there are certain acts that you are you simply have to act upon if you are told about them. Just passing the info on to a superior isn't enough.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:39 PM ^
Yeah we do. He was told about a rape.
That's the assumption. Is it the truth? If you or I could say "yes" for sure, I'd be taking a different tack. McQueary says that's what he told JoePa. JoePa says it's not. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if neither of them can correctly remember. The level of outrage directed at JoePa is based on what he knew. I can't say what he knew and I don't think it's right to assume we do know.
November 8th, 2011 at 2:14 PM ^
November 8th, 2011 at 2:52 PM ^
I don't think there's a clearly delineated line between "everything's OK" and "a crime has been committed." If JoePa wasn't given enough information then his line of thought might be "let's get this guy out of here before he commits a crime." After all, adult males showering alone with children does happen in public places, and this is a semi-public place. Less so than, say, the local pool, but more so than a private home. Not saying that what McQueary saw wasn't a crime, but what he relayed to Paterno might not have been.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:14 PM ^
November 8th, 2011 at 3:26 PM ^
I saw plenty of naked old men in public showers at public pools growing up. I'm 110% sure I'm not the only one. Sometimes it might have even happened where I was the only other person in the shower area. If you think that's never been set up that way you're probably about 16 or under. These days they're usually built with stalls and curtains and such, but they didn't used to be. I'll bet the shower at Penn State is set up like a regular old men's room shower without stalls, just a bunch of showerheads in a room.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:47 PM ^
I think the point is that it wouldn't be allowed today under any circumstances....let alone at a college facility where there should be no one under the age of 18 in the showers.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:32 PM ^
1998 =|= 2011. Our societies awareness and precautions against child molestation have increased exponentially since then.
November 8th, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^
that is total BS. I was in Ann Arbor as an undergrad in 98, no fucking way anyone would have thought it normal to see a 50+ year old man in the shower with an unrelated 10 year old boy.
NO. FUCKING. WAY.
1978 - probably no one thinks twice
1988 - maybe
1998 - no way
November 8th, 2011 at 5:46 PM ^
November 8th, 2011 at 3:28 PM ^
Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.
Joe has admitted it was sexual in nature what he was told. Mcqueary, with his dad said he told Joe anal sex. Even if what Joe said he heard, that is more than enough for his firing. This is not about guys showering together.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:08 PM ^
You don't have kids do you Magnus? I do I can't stop thinking what if my boy was attacked after JoePa failed to go to the police. I'd want him dead. If it was easier for someone higher up to actually make the call, then he should have made sure that they did just that. You can't keep your sterling reputation for doing the right thing when the time it mattered the most that you do the right thing you didn't.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^
i was under the impression that after joe pa told the AD sandusky wasnt allowed on the main campus anymore for his camps but he was allowed for several more years on the satellite campus. do you think joe pa knows what happens at the satellite campuses? unless joe pa was part of those camps, in which case how could you not question why this guy is still around, he may have had no idea he was still allowed around PSU. also, why aren't we bashing the dude who saw it happen and told joe pa? he was the actual witness, he should have gone to the cops instead of joe pa
November 8th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^
"The man is guilty of reporting the nasty details to his superiors, but not the police. Jeez, it's not like he suddenly becomes a horrible human being."
The "nasty details" to which you refer are the alleged rape of a 10-year old boy. Downplaying that as "nasty details" is idiotic. (As is your Princess Di analogy.) JoePa's failure to report that to the police does, I assure you, greatly tarnish his reputation as an educator and leader of young men. And, in my opinion, quite reasonably so.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:50 PM ^
Yes.
And what does that have to do with Al Golden? Nothing.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^
I'm not talking about Al Golden, or whether he should be the next Penn State coach. I'm talking about the stupidity of your comment.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^
And my comment was in regard to Paterno's actions diminishing Golden's chances of getting the PSU job.
This is my last response to you. I used to get in long, drawn out arguments on here. I'm trying to avoid that these days. Later.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:25 PM ^
Trust me, this is a very good one for you to walk away from, because you're coming off as horribly tone-deaf to the subject matter at issue.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:46 PM ^
What Paterno did was maybe "legally sufficient" to avoid criminal responsibility, but it was morally reprehensible.
Why would you mitigate knowing kids are being sexually assaulted and failing to report that to the authorities to an "error in judgment"? Paterno could have made sure a predator was held accountable and could have prevented further abuse--he didn't.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:13 PM ^
Or at least told them that he wants to be there when they do. My one question is, did he and how often follow-up with his superiors on the issues?
November 8th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^
it's not like he suddenly becomes a horrible human being.
Apparently he's always been that way. Or at least for the last 13 years.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:52 PM ^
the lengths people will allow their minds to travel to justify something just so they can go against the grain.
Hey man:
Please, go to your blog and write up a defense piece of Joe Paterno's actions. I'd love to see how you justify him having knowledge of a child rapist (or child horse-arounder in the shower, if you will) on the campus in which he is basically God and doing absolutely nothing productive to stop it.
It'll really bring the hits.
November 8th, 2011 at 1:18 PM ^
a Princess Di reference? On a football blog?
I've passed into some f'd up parallel universe.
November 8th, 2011 at 4:37 PM ^
Apparently Paterno cared enough to fire him and keep him away from college athletes. But he had no problem with PSU hosting Sandusky's football camp for boys for the next ten years.
Apparently protecting the football program was a high priority for all involved at PSU, the welfare of children, not so much.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^
None of Paterno's coaches were likely to take over after his retirement anyway. Regardless, I'm sure they'll clean house. The school will want to remove any connection to the old regime. Remember: university and football programs are hothouses, so people would always wonder whether other members of the coaching staff knew about Sandusky.