Peppers at 10, which seems low.
Where would Michigan be if Les Miles was hired in 2008?
...I think the correct answer is "on probation."
Given a chance to justify it, LSU fans would gladly be rid of the Mad Hatter (not that they are overly concerned with NCAA rules or recruiting violations, imo.)
would still be in Michigan. If that helps.
I logged in to say Ann Arbor. So I will see your Michigan and specify Ann Arbor.
don't make me think about these things...
Well we would be pretty damn good and a weird team. However everyone would be happy since we would be wining a lot.
We'd probably enjoy the coach's press conferences a lot more.
Damn you, Kirk Herbstreit.
We wouldn't have to read this post.
Nope. The post would had said "what if we hired RR"
Michigan fans will never be happy until we are Bama. Even if we were like Oregon, people would demand to be winning the NC every year and demand to fire the coach cause they lost 1 game.
But I think folks were content last year even though it was below our unrealistic expectations.
But yea, the blue blooded programs do complain when we aren't Alabama. It's not just a M thing though
2008 may not have been as bad. We probly would've kept Mallet, and maybe some of the receivers. But out o line was still brand new. D would've been better, but I still think we'd probably have a ceiling of 8 wins that season.
After that, we may have been better but we also wouldn't have had Denard. As crappy as the last six years have been, how much fun was it watching this group of guys out there? We probably would also have loved whomever we had, but it's hard to accept that we'd like them as much as Roundtree, Molk, Kovacs and company.
I guess I'd rather look forward than "what could've been" because I've grown attached to the teams we had, if that makes sense.
I love Denard, but would trade him in a second if it meant more wins per season.
He probably would have gone 4-8 in year one.
Eh, I don't think so. He is a much better coach than RR and I don't think we would have lost so many players to transfers. Also, Les understands that defense is important.
I don't think Les Miles is a long term solution. We would not have hit rock bottom but he benefits from amazing recruits and great cordinators at LSU.
So he's Brady Hoke with a National Championship?
Yes, except for the "great coordinators" part
Les Miles has been a damn good coach for a while now. And that includes his time as an offensive coordinator.
we would never had gone 3-9 in 2008, Mallett would have stayed and played for Les, Cam Cameron would prolly be our OC right now....so yeah, much better off.
Thanks for being a great sailor Mr. Bill Martin, asshole extraordinaire.
In an ethical morass of oversigning, grayshirting, and complete disregard for the well-being athletes that make us millions of dollars. Probably would win more though.
We'd probably have Cam Cameron as our OC.
So, I've got that goin' for me, which is nice...
Would we be worse off had he fired GERG and kept RR?
And whether that guy had ever run a 3-3-5 in his life before.
Bolivia after getting hammered for recruiting violations.
yup, just like LSU. Oh, wait...
LSU isn't in the B1G.
...if Michigan went to the SEC, I'd be all for Miles or any other borderline coach that wins. It's fair game in the SEC. In the Big Ten coaches "b snitichin n shit."
So you must believe OSU will be sunk any day now under Urban Meyer!
Also, RR put the team on probation too. At least Miles would have won.
That's your difference.
We would have a damn strong football team.
Have a great day.
(dances with a mouthful of grass)
Under investigation by the NCAA
More likely we would be living the Kentucky basketball lifestyle...aka...Whoo go team...They're going to keep looking the other way, right? Right?
What's that even mean now?
Just Like OSU dodged it by not hiring Urban Meyer. Oh wait!
It was always my understanding - and I could be wrong - that the speculation that Miles had accepted an actual offer was just that. As I recall, he acknowledged that a conversation between himself and Coleman and Martin took place, but stressed that it was more of a consultation than anything else. That was after he signed the contract extension, publicly reiterating his commitment to LSU. It never seemed clear that he was part of the process or that there was in fact a process.
Yeah, it was something like this I believe.
Although, I think he was on record saying that he would accept an offer if it was made. If I remember it was an interview on ESPN or some show where he said he could never say no to Michigan.
I think he wanted the job.
Yes, there was no "botched process". Michigan never had any intention of offering Les Miles. Bill Martin wasn't taking Miles' call . . not on a sailboat, not on a hayride, not on rollerskates. No Les Miles.
Are you saying John Bacon made all that stuff up then?
In 2008 we had probably the worst roster ever. It didnt help that Mallet was homesick and Aarington and Mannigham left. Maybe the defense's would have been a little bit better, and we would have gone 5-7 or 6-6 but thats all. After that it would have gotten better, except we never would have had Denard.
Isn't this a pointless exercise? I suppose wild and reckless speculation can be fun, but, I'm not sure what we gain from this... besides maybe a bit of fun.
I think we'd have switched from turf to grass for Les though.
Maybe we could plant some grass and put it in a little cart for him on the sidelines. That might just be appealing enough for him.
It is pointless, but would you rather think about this or the state of the offense?
Grass on the field
I always think about this, too. Yeah, Les is a little crazy and does shady stuff, but the guy wins a lot. I really wanted him to be our coach after Carr and frankly, I would still take him if Harbaugh is not an option (and I don't think he ever will be because he has a hard on for the terrible NFL). MIND YOU ALL...I am still OK with Hoke's being our coach. I hope it works out for him, but if it doesn't within the next two or three seasons, he needs to be replaced. Another guy who interests me is David Shaw from Stanford, but I think he is also NFL bound some day or will stay at Stanford. He has it good there right now.
there was no way Miles was going to leave LSU.
HAHA, so true.
That means we can blame RR for two things and not just one ("one" being losing so much at M).
Yeah, and they had a top 2 or 3 recruiting class coming in and it appeared they were poised to become what Alabama eventually became.
This thread will go well.
It already is.
Probably on probation for recruiting violations, but looking a lot better on the field.
hai. hai hai guyz. guyz listen guyz. guyz what if we, guyz listen. what if we hired Hoke, guyz srsly, listen. wat if we hired Hoke and RRod was, guyz listen, and RRod was offensive coordinator and, srsly guyz listen, and Mattison was DC.
Sh*t, in hindsight that doesn't even sound all that bad anymore.
It doesn't sound bad. It's just totally unrealistic. Head coaches do not go down to being coordinators unless there's nothing out there for them.
Somebody else's wife woulda gotten slept with, is my guess.
Impossible to speculate as far as win-loss and championships, or violations, for that matter, but a few things I'd comfortably wager...
2008-09 would probably still have been rough. Maybe not "eight wins in two seasons" rough, as MAYBE Mallett stays and that in turn possibly convinces Manningham and Arrington to do so as well, but still fairly rough as o-line and defense issues were coming with Lloyd's late recruiting drop-off. However, I think that would have been the bottom.
Offensive line recruiting crater doesn't happen. Mark Dantonio isn't handed the state of Michigan on a silver platter.
Definitely not back to '90s-level domination of Ohio State, but I doubt Les would be 1-4 against them, en route to being 1-5, as Michigan currently stands since 2008. Les vs Urban would be considered one of the hottest rivalries in football.
Highly doubt Dantonio is 5-2 against Michigan.
Horrible losses in that span which MAY not be? I'll go with Toledo and Northwestern 2008, Illinois and Purdue 2009, Penn State 2010, Iowa 2011, ND and Nebraska 2012, obviously Penn State and Nebraska 2013. Even Michigan State 2011 is a toss-up, he'd have had upperclass recruits by then.
Someone's going to say I'm an idiot and putting way too much stock in merely having a different coach, but I'm not going overboard saying Michigan would have won multiple NCs or would be the new scourge of the Big Ten, I'm simply saying I feel there would have been a greater level of competence, focus, and aggressiveness, and Michigan wouldn't be where it is right now, with a host of embarrassing losses the last few years, and hilarious ineptitude in the games that matter most.
Well our press conferences would sure be a hell of a lot more eventful than they are right now.
This is really just a pointless exercise, though. Yeah, it can be fun to speculate, but he didn't come here. He's not coming here, and he never will. That doesn't mean there won't be plenty of good candidates out there should Hoke not be the right guy.
We'd be the top team in the big ten and always in the top ten of the ap top 25. We'd be tough and exciting to watch and we'd be relevant. I wish he was our coach still to this day.
Who cares? They didn't hire him, and at this point we might be better off if he who can't be named without spread hating true blue fans blowing up were still coaching.
announced we were getting Miles. He's shady and definitely crazy but a good coach that just wins. There wouldn't have been any investigations or any fractured fanbases, but Llyod would have disappeared.
I think we'd be farther ahead if for no other reason, 2008 and 2009 wouldn't have happened and the bowl streak would still be intact.
At LSU he was taking over from Saban so the cupboard was stacked. He is able to pull in Louisiana recruits now because they are playing at home. LSU as an SEC school is allowed to bring in JuCo players to fill in gaps that develop. Even still he has only had two bites at the apple and one championship. True that is more than about 120 other programs in the BCS era.
It isn't even the cries of "over signing" or such nonsense. It is just being a school in a state that has more NFl talent per capita than any other.
I do not see that level of success at Michigan.
That being said I could definitely see some trips to the Rose Bowl.
Where would Alabama - and Michigan - be if Rodriguez had taken the Alabama job after the 2006 season?
A large part of RR's problem was the trouble off the field, such as a lack of support from higher-ups, including Lloyd. Now Lloyd famously didn't want Les, so if we hire him and there's that same void of support and Lloyd freely lets any player transfer that wants to, we still probably get a hellish 2008 maybe 2009. Who knows what other off-the-field issues we might have had besides.
Alternatively, what if we had hired Hoke then? Would he have been able to keep it going after Carr?
I think this question is interesting also. Hoke may very well turn out to have been a better choice than Miles. Regardless of whom, I just wish they'd have hired someone in 2007 who had more internal support, which would mean today Michigan has a coach in his sixth season instead of his third. If nothing else we'd know a lot more about where this program stands.
Wait three more years and we'll know.
I guess it all depends on what DB expect out of his coach. He may be happy with 3 to 4 losses per year. Hoke & CO. may lose 6 or 5 games this season and I doubt 2014 will be much better, may be a win or two more?
It will be interesting to do a study on how long successful coaches took, to turn around their programs. I know it took Bo his first season to turn Michigan's fortune on a dime. I thin Saban only took two seasons and he had the same lack of depth problem that Hoke had. It just seems like some staff's can coach their young players up!
Why is that the case ... Only a win or two more in 2014??? Our schedule is tougher (@ ND, Sparty, and Ohio) but two of those teams lose major talented upperclassmen on their best sides of the field. Besides, check out the comparisons ...
1997: Rose Bowl / Nat Champs
2006: 11-2 (#1 v #2 in Columbus)
History shows that young teams struggle. My verdict is still out until next year on whether Hoke is still the guy.
Les Miles needs Lloyd Carr to get out of the picture. He's a winner!
Is the correct answer.
I'm starting to feel like Lloyd Carr did a great job of screwing Michigan football and then placing the blame on RR.
but only because I go with the assumption now he would be in the sixth year of his systems and his recruits.
We had a few years off if recruiting and you can't do that in this landscape anymore.
There is something amiss right now but what it is is hard to say. Youth is a reason and I'm not sure yet if Borges is a reason or an excuse, but by all accounts of those who write up about Michigan practices there was as much teaching and attention to detail as they had seen anywhere. So I struggle with understanding the gap.
"...but by all accounts of those who write up about Michigan practices there was as much teaching and attention to detail as they had seen anywhere. So I struggle with understanding the gap."
Exactly. People say the coaches aren't capable, but everything people who know and see practice say is the opposite. Intense, detail, and technique oriented practice. Intense film study, hard hitting, etc.
To me, that screams of youth and an overall lack of talent left over from the RR years.
In re the OP: better because we likely would not have lost so many current players and recruits. 6 years is a full recruiting cycle + 1.
If your current program is having a lot of problems, one exercise to figure out why is to look back 3 or 4 years ago to what the recruiting was like, and a lot of times you'll have part of the answer.
It just so happens that 4 years ago was the infamous 2010 recruiting class that is almost totally non-existant today. You want to know why we're struggling? There is a huge reason why.
Newsflash; the 2011 class was not a whole lot better, but at least the proceeding classes will have another year under their belts.
You can't have one full recruiting class crater like that, and be devoid of major issues 4 years removed from it.
Something is amiss: first, poor senior leadership, second coaches lost the team, third players lost confidence. My three cents...
I liked this discussion better when Miles was named Tubby Smith.
John Beilein just called...he wants his third year collapse(and ensuing overreaction/panic) back.
We probably still would've been terrible in 08. Maybe not quite as bad but probably 5-7 or 6-6
We would have lost in the national championship after going undefeated in the easiest schedule we've ever had 2011.
Better quesiton is where would we be if Brandon had just let Rich Rod hire Casteel and given him backing the way he gave it to Beilein when he was struggling in year three.
That's on Martin, not Brandon. The latter doesn't arrive until RRod's third season.
The University of Michigan hospital would have made history as the first hospital to surgically remove field turf from a coach's esophagus.
Still on probation.
Looking for a new coach.