Toasted Yosties

July 10th, 2020 at 11:48 AM ^

I once lived in the Rio Grande Valley in south Texas. The hospitals there are already overwhelmed, and yesterday they reported over 1200 new positive cases. It’s only going to continue to get worse across the state here. I’m so proud of the government of my home state of Michigan taking this seriously. 
 

edit: Here’s where we are with one of our senator’s. John Cornyn: “We still don’t know whether children can get it and transmit it to others," Cornyn said in an interview Thursday with NBC 5. Our leadership here in Texas is abysmal. 

Njia

July 10th, 2020 at 12:13 PM ^

Cornyn is wrong, but there is quite a bit of uncertainty about the degree to which children can spread the disease. They can get it, of course, but beyond that, there are still a number of unanswered questions. Several studies have shown that, unlike the flu, SARS-CoV-2 does not seem to be as transmissible by school-aged children.

Mitch Cumstein

July 10th, 2020 at 12:20 PM ^

Is that statement by Cornyn inaccurate? That seems to be consistent with the school guidance that the AAP recently put out:

Although children and adolescents play a major role in amplifying influenza outbreaks, to date, this does not appear to be the case with SARS-CoV-2. Although many questions remain, the preponderance of evidence indicates that children and adolescents are less likely to be symptomatic and less likely to have severe disease resulting from SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, children may be less likely to become infected and to spread infection.

I guess the question isn’t if they “can” but “to what extent” - is that your issue with his statement? Are you aware of info that counters what the AAP said? It’s an important topic as we approach fall.

outsidethebox

July 10th, 2020 at 2:01 PM ^

It is a difficult call. Per my wife, primary care pediatric provider, here the AAP recommendation places learning and emotional development above the risks for their physical health. Their rationale includes placing major responsibility for mitigation of risk in the out-of-school environment upon the adults in their lives. 

bluebyyou

July 10th, 2020 at 12:21 PM ^

I could care less what you do to yourself.  If you don't want to wear a seat belt and get into a bad accident, so be it.  

What would piss me off is your survival if it required taxpayers/insureds to pay for your medical costs and rehab that would otherwise be mitigated or eliminated if you had followed the law.

Your attitude is one of entitlement and a disregard for others.  I don't know anyone who likes wearing a mask, but if it helps someone else, it's a small price to pay.

If you'd care to debate the constitutionality of laws that are passed to promote the health and welfare of society, I suspect I and others on here with law degrees or a knowledge of constitutional law can give you more than a run for your money.

 

shoes

July 10th, 2020 at 1:35 PM ^

It is an executive order, not  a law passed by the legislature. That doesn't mean it isn't required to be followed, but we should at least proceed cautiously with the breadth and frequency of executive orders unilaterally imposed by a chief executive whether that is President Trump, was President Obama, or is Governor Whitmer.

slblue

July 10th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^

I agree with you.  The better comparison is not the seat belt law but the speeding law because it Is intended to prevent harm not only to oneself, but to others as well.  So, the question is, is the speeding law “tyranny?”  

Brimley

July 10th, 2020 at 5:40 PM ^

Part of the belt law is intended to save a person from himself, but choosing not to wear one hurts me too as I have to pay insurance and governmental benefits (EMT costs, disability benefits, what have you) because some dumbass wants to exercise "freedom" by not wearing it.  If said dumbass wants to renounce ALL insurance and publicly funded benefits, then I don't give a shit if they turn their face into a jigsaw puzzle.

Longballs Dong…

July 10th, 2020 at 3:19 PM ^

They were damn close and only survived because other doctors/nurses/units/buildings were re-purposed as ICU doctors/nurses/etc.  Also, at that time all elective stuff was prohibited and several inpatient visits were sent to different settings, like IV meds given from home instead of a hospital setting.  Your attitude appears to be, I didn't die yet so I probably never will.  That's dumb.

I think the seat belt analogy holds up but I like smoking better.  Is it tyranny that you can't smoke cigarettes in restaurants anymore?  A shit ton more people are dying (and much more quickly) from COVID than second hand smoke.  Just wear the damn mask and stop bitching.  

ijohnb

July 10th, 2020 at 12:24 PM ^

Here is your answer.

This is not about Covid.  It is about power.  It is about stripping away rights from individuals.  I am going to accept the negs, the name calling, and whatever else may follow and exit this thread quietly now, but please, if you are on this thread, and you have been just kind of going with the flow but are starting to get a inkling that this may be on really shaky ground, constitutionally.  You are absolutely correct.  This should never be a law.  This is a law applicable to five year old children?  It should absolutely not be anything that has not undergone legislative debate and approval and formal public debate. I encourage you to understand that there are more and more people shouting from the rooftops right now and the collective mob is silencing them.  Thoroughly research the laws, decisions, and causes you are supporting right now.  Think about them critically, not just on the surface.  This is a really bad sign.

TheJoker

July 10th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^

Wow look at this big brain guy here name dropping the constitution. Sure more time is needed to definitely say that masks will help curtail the spread of the disease. And I say definitively so that a big brain like yourself gets hard evidence. But the one thing we don't have right now is more time. Even preliminary and anecdotal data from countries like Japan and Korea has shown that their existing mask culture has helped in their fight against the disease. The longer we wait, the more lives that get lost because we didn't properly fight this disease. 

MoralSupport

July 10th, 2020 at 1:22 PM ^

I don’t think Japan’s mask wearing culture actually does anything to slow the spread of airborne viruses. Last I checked, pneumonia and a lot of influenzas are spread in the same manner as COVID-19. However, Japan has significantly more Influenza and pneumonia deaths on a year to year basis as compared to the United States. Which makes it really weird why they have so few COVID-19 deaths and positive cases. Maybe the game is rigged? Or maybe Japan isn’t as liberal with how they are counting their cases and deaths?

Gulogulo37

July 10th, 2020 at 5:02 PM ^

"However, Japan has significantly more Influenza and pneumonia deaths on a year to year basis as compared to the United States."

Source? I'm suspicious of that. Also, do you actually think all or even most Japanese people wear masks around in normal times? It's a tiny percentage at any one time.

BoFan

July 10th, 2020 at 12:30 PM ^

You seem to lack a basic understanding of what happens in a pandemic and probably a basic understanding of math. You need to act about a month or more ahead of time when any significant case data, raw numbers and growth, shows up.  By the time numbers become obvious, as you seem to want, you are screwed.  

You seem to want to use current numbers to make decisions in a pandemic and that is the fundamental cause of why we are where we are today in many of these politically run states. 

In fact, one month ago an mgblogger in Florida said on here exactly the same thing about Florida that you are saying about Michigan today when he/she tried to counter everybody’s posts a month ago that Fl was going to be screwed.  The difference is MI is making the right decisions and FL was not.  I doubt they are posting this month. You should feel lucky to have competent leadership in MI because otherwise it would look like FL.

Wearing a mask is about getting the transmission rate R0 to below 1. A mask alone is not be enough to do it.  Everyone has to comply, there can be no gatherings, bars need to stay closed, and restaurants are risky as long as the cases are at a certain level as they are today.   But anyone that wants to complain about having to shut down businesses and shelter in place should be the first to want to wear a mask. 

GoBlueTal

July 10th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^

If all you'd wrote is that last paragraph, we'd agree 95%.  Everything else, not as much.

" politically run states"  Whenever anybody says their side is morally pure and insinuates the other side is all about the politics, it kind of makes me assume they've replaced all their organs with fecal matter, just saying.  That kind of thinking requires one of three things, delusion, bigotry, or stupidity.  Nothing else.  No wait, it could be a combination of those.  Regardless, it's not good thinking.  

 

BoFan

July 10th, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^

All four paragraphs are absolutely true.

The comment about “politically run states“, I would agree is more conjecture and is the only exception.  It’s tough to prove that point.  However, a government leader has to take significant political risk to make the tough decision that some constituents won’t like where they need to close things down, have people wear masks, and take other measures for the benefits of all of their constituents. It’s therefore an a political decision.  In this case there is little little to be gained politically for a governor or similar leader to follow generally accepted “pandemic” protocals early, when the timing is critical, because they leave themselves open for criticism and political backstabbing. On the other hand another Governor, with credentialed medical and scientific advisors, that ignores the advice and instead follows the political pressures is acting politically. I therefore stand behind my statement. 

MoralSupport

July 10th, 2020 at 3:45 PM ^

Hold on, is sending COVID-19 patients to nursing homes, the location with our most vulnerable population, competent leadership? Because that’s what Whitmer did, and I believe that’s the complete opposite of competent leadership.