So can we burn down Ivan Maisel's house now?

Submitted by rbgoblue on

Holy MGoBlasphemy!  This nugget from his livechat on ESPN.com.

Mo (Canada): They took back Reggie's Heisman, can they take back Charles Woodson's and give it to Peyton?

Ivan Maisel (2:38 PM):  I'm with you on that one. That, to me, was the greatest Heisman injustice of the last 25 years. In second would be Tommie Frazier losing to Eddie George in '95.

ish

September 15th, 2010 at 3:06 PM ^

ivan's usually a great writer and on the mark with his comments.  he's from the south, so we'll just assume that he said that because his home crew threatened to kill him if he didn't.

csam1490

September 15th, 2010 at 3:07 PM ^

He's always been a bit of an SEC homer. I think he's an Auburn guy or something. I think his writing is consistently good, and there were certainly a lot of folks who thought Manning deserved it. I'm not getting in a huff about this. As an aside, what other two Heisman candidates have had stellar long-term NFL careers like Woodson and Manning? That seems rare.

blueblueblue

September 15th, 2010 at 3:13 PM ^

He's an Alabama guy, but got a journalism degree from Stanford (or some similar degree). If you can stomach Beano Cook and listen to the ESPN podcast, it will become clear that he loves the SEC and dislikes Michigan. Prior to this year (I stopped listening this year), he either only said negative things about Michigan or simply brushed us aside when Beano brought us up. 

csam1490

September 15th, 2010 at 4:59 PM ^

I think I wasn't clear. I was musing about players who finished 1-2 in the same year who both had careers of long success. 1970 may qualify, two Super Bowl-winning QBs in Theismann and Plunkett. Also possibly '81 and '82, depending in both instances how you feel about Herschel Walker's career.

MGoPHILLY

September 15th, 2010 at 3:09 PM ^

hey remember that time in 1997 when peyton manning threw a pick six to lose Florida.  Yeah he deserved the Heisman over the greatest college defensive player ever.

Steve Lorenz

September 15th, 2010 at 8:19 PM ^

0-3 vs Florida with a stacked Tennessee team that won the NC the year after he left with TEE FREAKING MARTIN at quarterback 

142 yards and 3 turnovers in the 1998 Orange Bowl after dominating shitty opponents all year

0-3 in high school state championships 

Shitty QB rating in the playoffs the year the Colts won the SB on the back of a rugged run defense and playing a shitty Bears team to win it. If I remember right, Trent Dilfer had a better QB rating in the playoffs when the Ravens won it in 2000. 

Pick-six on the biggest drive of the year last year that cost Indy the game against NO. 

Manning = The most overrated quarterback in history. He's still a great quarterback, but does not belong in the conversation as one of the greatest. Of course, he'll always be in that conversation because he throws for 400 and 3 TDs against a 5-11 Cleveland team in the middle of October every year, but always folds when the pressure is on and his career shows it. So fucking overrated and Woodson was an easy Heisman winner because he made game changing plays in almost every big game that year: 

Bad-ass pick against Colorado 

Best fucking pick in history against MSU 

Game changing TD pass on the way to fucking up Penn State (my personal favorite) 

The epic pass back to Griese down to the 1 against Wisconsin 

Ohio State....I don't really need to say anything about what happened here.....BUT I WILL. Punt return and that pick in the end zone after Dee Miller beat him once. 

Rose Bowl....pick in the end zone in a close ass game. 

 

Fucking case closed Manning is overrated and give me Brady in a big game 10 times out of 10

 

/rant 

the_white_tiger

September 15th, 2010 at 3:10 PM ^

What a moron. Charles was one of the best players of all time, and probably the best ever at his position, and on a MNC team no less. Just because a whole state of white-trash mouthbreathers think their quarterback should have won the best QB/RB award, and because Woodson played defense doesn't mean that he should lose the award to Manning. Absolutely ridiculous.

kevin holt

September 15th, 2010 at 3:20 PM ^

To Maisel:

Heisman = best college football player. Woodson = defense, offense, and special teams, and amazing at all of them. Yes, he was primarily defense, but it cannot be argued by anyone with half a brain that he was the BEST player OVERALL. Try to put Peyton in any other position and see how he does. Now do it with Woodson. Who did better? You bet your ass it was Charles, now go back in the corner and stop expressing your retarded opinion.

No one else can play multiple positions like that, with that much dominance. He was the best in football, and that is that. This is a main reason why normal QBs probably shouldn't win the award automatically like they do some years, IMO, because often they aren't versatile. Denard is an example of the contrary if he keeps it up. Peyton, though, is one-dimensional, and therefore not worthy.

the_white_tiger

September 15th, 2010 at 3:25 PM ^

It's not the fact that Woodson was versatile which made him the best player in college football, it's that he played his position better than anyone else played theirs. He played cornerback better than Manning played quarterback, but #2's versatility was just an added bonus.

Bill in Birmingham

September 15th, 2010 at 3:42 PM ^

So true. The returns and receiving were great. But Woodson shut down half the field and allowed the rest of the defense to be uber aggressive. And the story of that college football season was Michigan's defense. It was not Peyton ("But Waah...he stayed four years. And statististics and he played quarterback. And SEC! SEC! SEC!") who lost every game he ever played that mattered at UT. He is a great pro quarterback who deserved the ring he won. But at UT he could not win against Florida or in bowl games. If he was so freaking great at UT, he wouldn't have laid the ultimate egg against Nebraska that cost us half of the MNC. I have listened to these freaking SEC assholes bitch about this for thirteen years. They were wrong about their chosen one in 1997 and the are wrong now. Maisel, Finebaum and the rest of the brilliant SEC media.

Not that I am annoyed or anything.

mgomistercheezle

September 15th, 2010 at 3:14 PM ^

Peyton looks like an effing mongoloid--I can't stand him.  I hate his stupid "Forrest Gump" persona he takes on in commercials, and I hate how he starts convulsing at the LOS and people say "oooh, he's so smart, he's psyching out the defense." 

UofMFaninDC

September 15th, 2010 at 3:13 PM ^

He said it was in his opinion, guy has the right to his opinion.  That being said, its a dumb comment. Peyton didnt win the Heisman because he couldnt win the big game; ie beat florida.

michgoblue

September 15th, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^

To me, Charles Woodson was the greatest college player ever to play the game.  I am biased (the NC year was my senior year, so I watched every college game he played at Michigan), but that is my opinion and I am sticking to it. 

Not only did Woodson shut down half of the field, but he was an amazing punt returner and a hell of a receiver.  The guy dominated offense, defense and special teams.  He also came up big in EVERY big game.  

Manning was also an amazing college football player.  As a Michigan fan, I believe that there is no debate that Woodson deserved the hjeisman, but I imagine that if I were an SEC fan, I might feel differently. 

HOWEVA, for him to say that this was "the greatest Heisman injustice" is stupid - both players had strong arguments in their favor. 

Elno Lewis

September 15th, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^

all threats of physical violence including burning homes, death threats, things like, I want to beat his ass, and such.

 

seriously people.  if you really feel that strongly perhaps you need to re-examine your priorities

neoavatara

September 15th, 2010 at 3:18 PM ^

was a great QB.  But that said...he did lose to Florida 4 times, right?  Did he ever really win a big game in college?  He was not the most important player on the best team that year, period. 

Mr. Robot

September 15th, 2010 at 3:35 PM ^

Charles Woodson was a better player that year. Period. Anybody who doesn't believe it can kiss our national championship and watch Nebraska vs Tennessee 5 times straight. Matter of fact, if Peyton was better than Woodson, maybe they would have beaten Nebraska and we would have all the national championships. Instead, Fulmer had to shaft us in the coach's poll because he was butthurt that our cornerback could pick his quarterback like he was a lottery card.

briangoblue

September 15th, 2010 at 5:08 PM ^

On the morning of January 1st, Tennessee had a chance to win the national title. If Michigan lost and Tennessee (11-1 at the time) beat Nebraska, the championship was theirs. Of course, Michigan won, and Tennessee absolutely, flat out, laid down, and Peyton Manning was a big part of that disgrace. People can cry all they want- I have no sympathy for Tennessee fan on this one.

 

Sidenote: a better indicator than a bowl game in which only one participant cared- Michigan and Nebraska shared a common opponent in 97-  Colorado.  Nebraska barely escaped Boulder with a 27-24 victory. Michigan demolished them 27-3 (like a national champion should a 5-6 team) at the Big House earlier in the year. 

blueheron

September 15th, 2010 at 3:53 PM ^

Let's not forget that Woodson's achievement may have resulted in some angry anti-Michigan voting in ye olde coaches poll at the end of the year.  I know Fulmer screwed Michigan that year.

TheOracle6

September 15th, 2010 at 3:59 PM ^

Ivan Maisel obviously didn't watch much of Charles Woodson that year.  The interception against Michigan State was one of the most difficult receptions in NCAA history.  He shut down everyone he played against that year including TUOS David Boston who was supposed to be one of the bes WR's in the country.  Let's not forget about all of the contributions he made offensively, and of course no one will forget the punt return against TUOS that wrapped the hesiman up.  Undefeated, national champions and Maisel wants to give it to Manning?  What a joke.

marco dane

September 15th, 2010 at 4:03 PM ^

Perhaps Mr Ivan should review the 1997 Tenn/Floda game.

The Heisman isn't some lifetime achivement award given out for someone career...its a seasonal award.

Wonder if Ivan knows,the south lost the war also...hmmm!

st barth

September 15th, 2010 at 4:08 PM ^

I've never quite understood the bitterness that southerners have had for the Charles Woodson Heisman.  I have met a few who are otherwise normal people but when the subject of that Heisman came up they seemed to lose their brains.  I'm kind of indifferent on the subject and will usually try say something polite like "Yes Peyton was a brillant quarterback, but you have to admit that Woodson had a very special season?  Right?" and this is usually met with no answer except for a nasty glare that'd make you  think I just admitted to molesting one of their sheep or something.  Hmm...southerners are just weird.

Bryan

September 15th, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^

is the only reason I ever turn on an NFL game. In 1997 he took away half the field and can still do it today. There is no arguing that Peyton Manning was a very good player and perhaps would have won the award in any other year, but Woodson was on another level that season, one that we haven't seen since. 

M2NASA

September 15th, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^

Seriously?  Greatest injustice ever?

How about Paul Hornung in 1956 from a 2-8 Notre Dame team with a 53% completion percentage and only 3 TDs over Jim Brown?

MI Expat NY

September 15th, 2010 at 8:25 PM ^

Still... even if you think Manning should have won, it wouldn't be the greatest injustice.   Both would have been deserving.  For that matter Eddie George was also deserving (though Tommie Frazier was moreso). 

The greatest injustice to me was Jason White over Larry Fitzgerald.

ehatch

September 15th, 2010 at 4:38 PM ^

Peyton wasn't even the 2nd best player that year, much less the best.  Randy Moss had 96 receptions for 1,820 yards and 26 Touchdowns + 534 Return yards.  (By comparison the year Desmond won the Heisman he had 62 receptions for 985 yards and 19 TDs + 694 return yards and 2 TDs). 

OMG Shirtless

September 15th, 2010 at 4:49 PM ^

I actually thought 'Mo from Canada', was referring to taking away Woodson's Heisman Trophy due to the Marion Darnell Jones scandal (which many people choose to forget all together, mostly because it was never proven) and Maisel completely avoided it.  

Farmhouse Funk

September 15th, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^

This really bugs me when people talk about Chuck didn't deserve the heisman. All you have to do is look at what Woodson and Manning did in their biggest games of the season. Woodson almost single handedly won the ohio state game, where as Manning single handedly lost the Florida game. 

Then look at what they each did in their bowl games....

One thing that has always bugged me about Manning is when he throws a TD he just goes to the sidelines, look at Brady when he throws a TD he goes and celebrates with his team.