Ranking Offensive Lineman - A Perspective on the Shuffling

For what it is worth I remember the Chargers OL coach last year saying that he frequently shuffled them around in practice to get the best 5 on the field and also to better prepare for in-game injuries.  They had quite a few injuries so you saw a lot of tackle to guard, guard center, and they held up pretty well.

I hope you're not being dreamy. Haven't read any articles, only twitter, but was hoping it was something along these lines. My hope is they are moving them around not because there aren't five good guys, but because there are more than five and they are trying to figure out what the best combination of the best five is.

On your first post, I'll say this, we have no excuses this year, I think we should win 2/3 tough road games against our rivals. Other teams around the country have won with less and younger talent up front. Enough excuses, this is Michigan!

When you blockquote make sure you are in "plain text format" instead of "rich text format"

Agree with 1. Glasgow and 2. Magnuson.

I know Cole is terribly young, and also still small for a tackle.  But based on what insiders (i.e., coaches) have said, the lineups I've seen published, and outsider's views (DiNardo, etc.), I think Cole could be ranked higher.  Perhaps as high as 3 or 4. 

I fear that in the coaches' rankings Kalis may be headed lower, based on the lineups I've seen.

I think the Oline will be at least above average this year due to the experience most of the potential starters have coming in, a simpler blocking scheme, and size that the linmen have.  As the season goes on and the line has time to develop chemisty they will continue to get better barring injury.  

Have shown much more than Kalis

mean that our D will be like Swiss Cheese!

I kid, I kid.

[q]"I've only been sacked, like, twice since camp started. And that's a positive."[/q] He also said he's learned to throw the ball away. I know people who read all the comments are probably getting tired of me, but I don't think most people read the article. The article was actually about him not doing it all himself and creating huge negative plays. Instead he has learned to throw the ball away and live to play another play instead of getting broken ribs and feet from the continuous abuse. That said... I'll be happy if the OL is NOT a tire fire this year. However. After 6 years of listening to players talk about winning the B1G, I think I'm going to wait until I see what the team looks like.

My optimistic side agrees with you, although I wonder if Cole isn't cracking the top 5. Next year we'll be returning all 5 starters and likely 4 the year after that. While that will be a very pleasant change, it could also mean it will be getting even harder for him to win a job. I could see plugging Cole in now if it's close and they think he has a higher upside.

This has been one of the most logical and level headed posts on the OL i've seen in a little while.  Maybe it's because i feel the exact same as the poster.   

Shifting OL positions and trying new combinations is not a new thing to the OL.  I watch the Lions religiously (yes, it's been crazy tough to do) and the one thing both of the past 2 regimes have done is move their OL backups to different positions so they know every possible position in the case of injury.  A team is MUCH better off tryiing people in new positions and getting them accustomed to different positions in the case of emergency and also to give them the perspective of all line positions.  Imagine a line of 5 5 year seniors that have played 4 of the 5 line positions.  Just imagine the line calls before the snap.  Everyone knows who's who and what is going on.  

No, I don't think our line will be top 10 or top 5 in the B1G, but I think Hoke and Co knows exactly who our best 5 are and are trying to get the rest comfortable with the other positions in case of emergency AND in case one of the 5 doesn't live up to their practice skills (let's face it, some are practice players and some are gamers).  

Wow... too much to drink before dinner.     Go Blue!  Love this team!

I can't wait until Saturday for the scrimmage. We'll have a much better idea of which it is then (shuffling to figure out the best guys vs shuffling because there aren't enough adequate guys).

I have a feeling you're right, that they're using the opportunity to cover contigency plans by seeing where else everyone can play. On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if the time wouldn't be better spent by naming starters and making sure they get every rep the possibly can.

i think youve got way too much confidence in braden, considering he hasn't played even a single snap of competitive college ball. i know other players and spectators have talked up his impressive combination of size and athleticism, but that doesnt mean much unless he can put it all together. and the fact that he couldnt see the field last yr makes me somewhat skeptical of his game readiness.

I think jack miller is the dark horse here. i have a feeling that miller outperforms braden in the opening game, and braden gets replaced at RT by glasgow after week 1.

Im just ready to celebrate how good they are as a group when we average 200+ ypg rushing with less than 50 of that being from the QB.  A short passing game with some three step drops and quick reads will help our running game immensely as well.  3/4 of our passing plays last year took an eternity to develop.

Here's my list:

1. Glasgow

2. Magnuson (first two are easy)

3  Kalis.  Ever so slightly ahead of Bosch based on last year and spring game.  Happy quotes from him in fall camp tells me starting lineups without him aren't correct.

4.  Bosch. 

5.  Braden.  I hope you're right that he is ahead of Kalis and Bosch since we haven't seen him.  He has a higher ceiling this year than Bosch/Kalis but also a lower floor since he has barely played.

6.  Miller.  Comparing play in the spring game, I'd put Kugler here.  However, Hoke's comments in the fall give Miller the slight edge here.  If he's really ready to play, I could see Glasgow pushing Kalis, Bosch or Braden out of the starting lineup.

7.  Kugler.  To me, he looked ready to play in the spring game.  Plenty big and strong enough and seems to know what he's doing.  Won't be surprised if he starts at center or guard later in the year.

8.  Cole.  I still think he is better than 50/50 chance he will redshirt unless there are multiple OL injuries.

9.  Burzynski.  He's ready as an adequate fill in at guard if noone else is ready.  I'd bump him ahead of Cole if Cole hadn't been in most of the starting lineups.

10.  Dawson.  Wait until next year.

OL competition next year will be ridiculous with 12 or more guys ready to play.  Expect battle between Bosch, Kalis, Kugler, Cole and Dawson for three spots to be epic!

This is my guess as to what we are seeing. The back up center is miller but there is no Glasgow for the first game so miller has to be the center. Now who is the back up guard? If it's not miller and assuming Bosch and Kalis are the left and right guard respectively then who is the back up left guard? At right guard you have Dawson but only one with experience on the left. That would be magnuson. If that's the case who is your back up tackle? It's not LTT, and it's not Fox. Only one left is Mason Cole. Who is the back up right tackle? That would be Glasgow. So there is but one real life scenario where the team benefits from looking at alternative line ups. I think there is a lot being made of very little. The real issue is the tackle depth which is really the primary issue to me.

Agree with 1. Glasgow and 2. Magnuson.

I know Cole is terribly young, and also still small for a tackle.  But based on what insiders (i.e., coaches) have said, the lineups I've seen published, and outsider's views (DiNardo, etc.), I think Cole could be ranked higher.  Perhaps as high as 3 or 4. 

I fear that in the coaches' rankings Kalis may be headed lower, based on the lineups I've seen.

I hope your dreamyness happens. 

As much as I like to beat this OL dead horse I think we are just going to have to sweat it out.  When Coach Hoke announces the OL then we will have our questions answered.

I do however expect anyone faiiing to get hanked early.  I don't think they can wait long for someone if they start bad out of the gate.  

Giter done or get the heck out of the way.       

 

I still think come App. State the O-Line reads Mags, Bosch, Glasgow, Kalis, Braden. In his interviews Kalis doesn't seem like a guy who's fallen off the map. Don't think Miller/Kugler are ready to push Glasgow over to guard just yet. That's a lot of talent right there, just hope they can mesh well together.

None of it matters until we see what is done on the field.  A year ago Lewan called Braden a man child, the most impress physical specimen he has seen yada yada and Braden was handed the LG and not only lost that but in a year they shuffled every man on earth into  the OL he was not one of them.  So talk is talk.  If you did this analysis 12 months and 1 week ago you'd have Braden as #4 behind Lewan, Schofield, and Kalis based on those type of comments.

Its a cliche but all this guessing is useless - how they do versus ND and Utah will tell me what we have in store.  (The 2 baby seals won't tell us much)  And based on their ages there should be significant improvement in early Nov vs early Sept unlike last year or Funk should not be retained.

IMO Devin is never going to say a negative thing about his line - he is going to build them up and support them as he should in public so I am not going to read anything into what he said.

OP:

 

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Google Image search comes up pretty weak on this one...

The ranking game is fun, but really what we're looking at is Glasgow #1 and then 3-4 guys tied for #2. And frankly, Glasgow wasn't that great either. He was just as prone to boneheaded missed assignments as anyone else. Neither Bosch nor Kalis were much better than Miller and we don't know what Braden or Cole can do. A little anecdote: I watched a camp practice during Jake Long's freshman season. After practice, one of the position coaches told a couple who I presume to be Long's parents that Moeller was sure that Long was going to be, "one of the best that we've ever had." High praise. He never took a single snap with the ones and took a red shirt. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, but maybe it has to do with the coaches knowing what these guys are going to be down the line but having to work with what they are in the mean time.

has yet to prove anything. Until they do, Michigan is a 7-6 team.

I think you're being a bit dreamy (I wish I could be so dreamy). If coaches move players around on both really good and really bad offensive lines, you don't learn a ton if you know simply that the coaches are moving bodies around. It is more like no information, rather than good or bad information.

Furthermore, you're taking one of the player's comments at face value while discounting all that was said at the BTN open practice. It seemed like all those guys were openly questioning if the line was any good. Why ignore that in favor of all the positive comments? If anything I would think the BTN folks would be more even-keeled in their evaluation than a current player speaking to the media.