New Morgan Trent - RichRod Allegations
Bobby Deren, a senior writer for the Rivals Rutgers site, scarletnation.com has published Draft Season: Four Months on the Clock in which he chronicles the experiences of Morgan Trent, Kenny McKinley, Frantz Joseph and Lydon Murtha as they prepared for the 2009 draft.
This bengals.com story reports that Draft Season contains some sharp allegations about RichRod's evaluation of Trent in his communications with NFL scouts.
At the end of the book, Deren describes the scene with Lloyd Carr, the former Michigan head coach that recruited him to Ann Arbor, breaking the news to Trent that current head coach Rich Rodriguez did him no favors.
“Rodriguez had bad-mouthed him to every NFL scout he could,” Deren writes. “Rodriguez claimed that Morgan was lazy, he had an attitude problem and he was a big reason the Wolverines finished with a 3-9 record…”
Trent admits the words were “jarring,” and they were hard to understand given that he was so serious about his career that he actually moved in with his brother and sister-in-law and their two small children while going to Michigan.
...
[Bengals defensive backs coach Kevin] Coyle heard the rumblings, but he didn’t talk to Rodriguez and put more stock in other people close to the Michigan program that had been there before.
“When there is a coaching transition and the team ends up not having success, you have to step back and try to decipher what the truth really is,” Coyle says. “There was a lot of heat on those people and there was some pointing of blame. Plus, the players were somewhat chagrined, so you had to look at everything.”
Presumably this information has played a part in Trent's willingness to speak negatively about RichRod and the Michigan football program.
Predictably, to date this story has only been picked up by the Freep (print version link).
...from RichRod because it the book's theme was about exploring the players' perspectives and providing an inside view of the process. That theme gains nothing from exploring this particular allegation for its level of accuracy and fairness.
Like many authors, he came to identify with his subjects and it's only natural that someone who has such complete access to a subject will become less than objective regarding that subject.
While writing this book, I became friends with these players and their families as I was given full access to their professional and private lives. I got to know the players on a personal level during this stressful period and was able to understand the world as they saw it – to experience the simmering tension that only a 22 year-old vying for legitimacy with a billion dollar franchise can know. I came to see a different side of these athletes, to look beyond the myriad of quantitative analyses fans are so often exposed to, to see the young man beneath the helmet. These young men are more than just world-class athletes who wear football uniforms on Sunday afternoons. They are real people with real worries and real obstacles ahead of them. During this extraordinary journey, I was able to gain a new understanding of what professional sports really means to the people who play them.
Clearly the accuracy of the comments are in question as they came third hand to Trent (scout to Carr to Trent) and fourth hand to Daren, but the point of the post was to point out that Trent's comments in February which seemed to be out of the blue were made for a reason. And that reason is because he has a deep animosity toward RichRod. Someone without such deep seated negative feelings would never have said the things he said.
How about the fact that Morgan Trent flat out just couldn't play. He just wasn't good and he and his friend Brandon Harrison were big reason why Michigan has struggled so long in the secondary. Having players with their very limited abilities start for so long severly handicapped our secondary.
he was so terrible just look what he amounted to his rookie year in the pros.
I want to agree with this, but it's flawed logic to say he was a good football player at Michigan just because he has found success in Cincinnati.
The question that would have been posed to RR and other evaluators before the draft is whether or not Trent played up to his ability while at Michigan. I didn't watch him like a hawk (Maybe old UFR's can shed some light on this?) but the defense played pretty poorly his senior year and it seems pretty plausible that he didn't play like an NFL DB that last season (something he is clearly capable of doing).
I haven't looked up many numbers, but in my memory I seem to remember saying "Godammit Morgan Trent!!" a bunch of times during his last few seasons. I also seem to remember Brian writing something in the 2007 version of HTTV that mentioned Morgan Trent struggling in pass coverage in '06.
while this may be true, and this may be something that coaches do, RR needs to understand what is happening to him in the media around here and make sure he doesn't do anything that can be construed as negative to him or the team. its about time we stop hearing things like this, and it starts with him doing a better job of shutting his mouth. I don't care if this is the way he was at every other school he coached at, its not about the x's and o's any more. we know he can coach, he has to do a better job of being a person and making better decisions. this doesn't have anything to do with win and this will all go away
Lloyd Carr, the former Michigan head coach that recruited him to Ann Arbor, breaking the news to Trent that current head coach Rich Rodriguez did him no favors.
Let the conspiracy begin!
Authenticity aside, I thought that was the juiciest part.
I blame John Navarre
I blame the the special teams guy in 2003 who installed the spread punt(I don't remember his name).
Jim Boccher is the name you are looking for...
Aug
Jim Harbaugh can't here fast enough.
Eh, Trent may not of bought in, RR may have had it out for him, Lloyd was looking after one of his recruits. This stuff will go away not only when the team starts winning, but when the team only consists of RR's guys. What it is.
I agree completely. It seemed to me at the time that Trent was not buying into it and to be honest it could have partly been Schaffer as much as RR. We all saw Trent get burnt time after time and it was his speed at the combine that saved his draft status.
Now RR may have had it out for Trent but that could be because partly what he was seeing from Trent in practice and games combined with not buying into the changes.
I can see why each side has reacted as they have. Just have to point out that while everyone has taken potshots at RR how many times has he lashed back with negative comments?
The Freep is really grasping at "Anti RR" straws here. You know they are running out of material when they begin to bring up things from two years ago.....
you do realize the book just came out, and the bengals.com article that the freep quotes was posted a mere 14 hours ago.
I know you are itching to turn this into a "Fire RR" thread...........but yes, this took place over two years ago.
Give it up.
We get it. You would follow RR into the fires of Hell. Enough.
I will staunchly support whoever the coach of Michigan football is.
... why are you getting negged for every post?
this has turned into a pro/anti RR flamewar/pissing match.
It's not always about RR, but of what he is...
He's our coach.
Without passing judgment on this particular instance, him being OUR coach should have nothing to do with how we evaluate things like this. Not trying to be inflammatory, but how would you have treated Brian Ellerbe?
Someone isn't infallible because they coach or play for your favorite team. This is the type of fan who supports Roethlesberger, Mangino, Ellerbe. If thats what it means to be a fan then count me out.
I think people are objecting to what has become a biased, outright attack that is, more or less, baseless.
Comparing RR to Mangino or Roethlesberger isn't really valid, as the last I read RR wasn't being accused of anything nearly as egregious as they are, nor are any of the accusation as cut and dry verifiable as those two cases.
Ellerbee, fair enough comparison, so my answer. Had Ellerbee become coach and walked into a team that was depleted with talent and was in the process of making drastic changes to make UM competitive again AND had be been greeted from day one with a hostile segment of the fanbase, based solely on their desire for another candidate or perhaps his accent or the color of his skin, then I would be behind him ALL THE WAY until it was evident whether or not his philosophy would pay off on the court OR there were concrete and salient evidence the he was lacking in character. I would look at the entire body of evidence in assessing this, team GPA, comments by current and former players, for and against, history, etc. etc.
I wouldn't throw him under the bus, that is for sure.
I've never seen aaamichifan ascribe blame to Rodriguez for anything. Whenever anything vaguely happens his response is basically the same as what he said above, "I staunchly support whoever's the coach at Michigan". Whatever that means.
Would love to lay the blame for anything and everything at his feet.
I don't think anyone on here, no matter how pro-RR they might be, would say that there aren't some things, both on the field and off, that could have been handled better. That will be true of any human being that takes over any coaching position at any program anywhere in the world. No one is perfect, nor is it fair to expect perfection.
There is, however, a segment of the fan base that will jump on whatever negative information they can get their hands on and portray it in the worst possible light in order to drag RR's name through the mud as often as they possibly can. Uhm.....Go Blue?
Blind faith is wrong, no matter which side you want to support.
mentioned anything about firing rr. and you're right, the substantive issues took place two years ago, but they just happened to be reported half a day ago. thats not exactly reaching through the annals of history to pull out a story.
but the question remains......is this really even a story? Was Rich Rod dishonest in his assessment?
Trent was a physically gifted player, but it was pretty obvious that he didn't "buy in" to the system in 2008. Were you expecting RR to potentially ruin his future credibility with NFL scouts to defend a guy who didn't give a full effort while playing for him?
To me, this is just another non-story that the Freep will use to reinforce preconceived notions about RR.
I'm not sure he was "dishonest" more than "wrong", if he actually said this. Trent played well as a nickel back on an NFL divisional champion. Obviously, he can play.
I was speaking more about his work ethic and ability to adapt to a new defensive scheme. At the time, it was probably pretty tough for RR to say he was a "team player".
Yes, now we can see that Trent can actually play. But that's not what any of us saw in 2008. Of course there can be a number of reasons for this, but attitude might have played a role.
While he has done well in the NFL, if all RR ever saw from him was apathy (I'm not saying that's the case) I don't think he'd be "wrong" to be honest about it. He was only around him for a year, after all. That Trent has done well since then does make it wrong in a sense, but not totally. If that makes any sense...
Trent was okay last year, but he wasn't exactly a Pro Bowl player. I saw plenty of Bengals games, and he did some nice things in zone coverage, but he was no world-beater. Let's not forget that the Bengals just drafted a CB in the third round and signed Pacman Jones (though, admittedly, these acquisitions were likely in part preparations for the fact that Jonathan Joseph or Leon Hall might leave in the not-too-distant future).
His years in the NFL are irrelevant. RR does not have the ability to look into the future and see how he performs. He was given a certain amount of effort out of Trent for the yea he played. RR made his opinions based on what he was given as a coach from his athlete. Since Trent did not buy into the program, it is no surprise that he developed the thoughts he did, because based on what Trent gave him, he DID have poor work ethic, he DIDN'T appear to have NFL ready abilities.
Morgan, you bear the fruits of your labor. You did not labor, so don't expect any fruit.
...the events in the book took place one year ago during the lead up to the 2009 draft.
By the way, how was Lloyd better? (I'm referencing your signature.) It's a serious question. Please reply at your leisure. Be sure to "normalize the data," too.
This can't be an honest question. Can it?
Of course it's not completely honest. RichRod has three Big 10 wins in two seasons.
I realize this is a dead horse and everything, but I find parts of the whole anti-RichRod firestorm intolerable.
Of note, this response isn't directed to you personally.
---
At this point I think it's fair to say that Rodriguez is in over his head in some ways. He has clearly mismanaged some issues.
But, too many people (possibly including los barcos) haven't bothered to look at the raw materials. (That's what I meant by normalizing the data.) How well would Lloyd have done with that '08 team? Probably better than RichRod, but I have a hard time getting past five wins. Maybe seven. Maybe. That's still two fewer than what is sometimes guessed.
So, to just say "Lloyd was better" is, IMO, a shallow analysis. Of *course* his record was better. I'd just like to see a full RichRod football lifecycle. Maybe his ceiling here is 7-8 wins. Fine... just so he doesn't get fired before that point because of the efforts of the Freep / Les Miles Fan Club / others. Can we at least wait until then? (That's not a question for you personally.) Until that point, we can't conclusively say that "Lloyd was better." Yes, I know things look bad now. Yes, I also realize that calling the upperclass talent pool depleted (even if the last two drafts were bad and '11 doesn't look promising) isn't completely fair.
To put it another way, I think some of what he is experiencing is unfair. Part of the game, sure, but we don't have to like it.
It's a signature. You can't expect someone to "normalize the data" in a signature.
Regardless, it's impossible to say how Carr would have done in the past couple years. But his worst team in ~13 years (I think) on the job went 7-5 in the regular season, which is still two games better than Rodriguez's best year.
Some flak Rodriguez has received has been justified. Some not.
If you ask me, the losing is less embarrassing than the infractions and general personal missteps have been. To me, that's the biggest difference between Carr and Rodriguez. It's not that Carr was perfect in his personal and professional life, but he was certainly better off than Rodriguez. To the general public, the worst thing Carr ever did was tell that sideline reporter, "Why would you ask such a stupid question?"
now, that is
there won't be any alumni flag football games in Morgan's future.
NFL teams ask coach for honest assessment of player. Coach says layer is talented, but prone to not giving a full effort. Player eventually finds out and is upset.
This happens all the time, and it's being blown out of proportion in this thread more than the Freep ever would.
i agree entirely. if trent didn't "buy in" or didn't give full effort and rr tells scouts that trent is the second coming and best teamate, then scouts will dismiss rr's future player evaluations.
i also doubt that rr went out of his way to find scouts. i will bet that he answered questions more truthfully than not when scouts sought him out.
That's not how it works.
If you don't like a former employee/player, you don't need to talk trash like that. The proper response is to merely confirm employment (or, in this case, that he was on the team). That is it. Nothing more. Why? Because it is a truthful answer that doesn't open the door to future problems (like lawsuits and negative recruiting).
Qualified privilege generally protects employers who give negative references, unless you can prove malice.
Assuming, arguendo (shit, I haven't used that word since law school), that you are correct, it still doesn't prevent the filing of a claim. As you likely know, a baseless claim is easy to file and we don't need a legal battle over whether Trent was indeed lazy or the cause of the 3-9 season. The reason to avoid negative references is to avoid the litigation, not just the losing of litigation.
Valid point, however I don't think Rich Rod or any other Millionaire gives two shits about paying their attorney a few grand to write a fairly simple Motion To Dismiss.
On a smaller scale, I'd completely agree.