We haven't gotten a single commit from PSU yet this year. At most, the only commit UFM would want this year is Dorian Johnson.
fair point that
We haven't gotten a single commit from PSU yet this year. At most, the only commit UFM would want this year is Dorian Johnson.
Meyer won't accomplish half of what Tressel did while at OSU.
You're pissed about the wrong thing.
OSU's class is mostly full. Also, Meyer didn't really have any choice of recruiting strategy for the last class.
Otherwise I agree with you.
I really don't think this is outside the NCAA's bounds. Penn State football clearly benefitted from covering this up and it was a big thing that was covered up. They deserve serious punishment of some sort
The diehard PSU fans are already spouting venom everywhere and anywhere except at JoePa and the cult of personality they helped create for him. If you look at PSU fan boards you hear anger over and over at the PSU president and Board of Trustees, outside media, Freeh (even going so far as wanting to sue Freeh for the report) and of course Sandusky, the former AD and former president. But at some point, the PSU fans have to recognize that JoePa was a central figure in the scandal and acknowledge that their intense adulation of JoePa was misplaced and is part of the reason it was so diffucult to out and prosecute Sandusky in the first place. Hell, even the prosecutors who finally indicted Sandusky waited until JoePa set the record for most wins.
If the PSU fans ever want Happy Valley to be known as anything other than the creepy little town where winning football and idolizing a football coach took precedence over prosecuting a child rapist, they need to start backing away from their delusional groupthink that there was one monster and two other miscreants in their midst (not JoePa) and that everything else was always just fine except for that, and that the only thing that needs to be changed now is the current president and Board of Trustees because they are being influenced by outsiders and not defending the honor of JoePa.
I honestly don't care how harsh the penalty is, they deserve it.
As for the players...could the NCAA screw them any more, if the rumors are true? 1 month before the season starts? Freshman are arriving, Seniors are getting ready to play their last season...many of these kids may never play football again.
Just throwing this out, but not only does the NCAA remove all obstacles to leaving PSU, but also removes a few to landing a roster/schollie at another university.
Say the NCAA agrees not to count up to four PSU transferees against existing scholarship limits, subject to
This would allow all players to land immediately at other colleges w/ the ability to play this fall. It also would provide an incentive for schools to accept the marginal senior.
I'm sorry, I've seen you say this before, but that is easily the dumbest thing I've read about this whole scandal so far.
I'm sure if somebody came up to you at your job tomorrow and said you had to pack up, move to another city, you'd have no assurances of meaningful employment there, and even if you did, you'd have 2 weeks to learn everything there before being forced to compete with others, you'd lose your accumulated pension or other similar benefits, you'd be unsure of the new benefits you'd get at this potential job, and you'd have to leave your friends and family, you'd say "No big deal guys! It's nothing more than inconvenient!"
Give me a break.
Isn't that apples to oranges? The "benefits package" should be the same: a full ride scholarship in exchange for playing football. Plus, they get to select from over 100 landing spots and situations. While the playing time/learning a new system is true, I think you over extended the analogy.
I'm sure the emplyees working for Enron would have been very happy to get new jobs where they could have the same pay and benefits (free education).
is disgusting. Maybe this will finally serve as a wake up call to those still blind to the tragedies that took place.
I wouldn't bet on it. Anyone who hasn't figured it out by now is never going to. The point is mostly now being made to the NCAA's other members.
NOPE. My brother now thinks its a knee jerk witch hunt, and that people blaming Paterno are ignorant.
Ummmmm first off the ncaa has no flipping right to punish pennst in this matter no matter how angry we are at what happened. Don't tell me about any moral clause in ncaa bylaws those are aimed at protecting athletes and you all know this.
Pennst will get hammered and deservedly so by the dept of justice and dept of education for what happened and those responsible for enabling sandusky are going to prison, joepa aside and even he gets his sentence with his entire legacy in ashes now.
So now the fact that the ncaa is jumping into this mess when they haven't been able to properly handle, auburn, ohiost, usc, north carolina, miami, oregon and others they want to deal the death blow to pennst for something completely out of their jurisdiction and not a single page in their bylaws about this..............................no it isn't pennst that should suffer the ncaa death penalty but the ncaa itself!
The NCAA only piles onto the weak...right now, no one can stand with PSU. I hate the NCAA
I am somewhat sympathetic to this point of view, especially since the NCAA has made such a mess of dealing with the other schools you mention. If they are levying penalties, it seems they must be using the Freeh Report as the basis, which unlike the other universities' fact finding missions was given free reign, was independent, and turned up evidence that was more damning to the university than was initially presumed.
From the Division I Handbook, Section 2.4:
"For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program"
This is the Principle Of Sportsmanship And Ethical Conduct, which is a basic principle of conduct for all NCAA member institutions. This principle is the basis of one of the four questions that had been asked of Penn State back in November by the NCAA, and in all honesty, they have apretty solid case for saying that Penn State did not comply with this basic principle. I would think that we agree that the program's behavior, and indeed the school's behavior, do not demonstrate any of the values mentioned here. We can quibble about the NCAA's intriguingly inconsistent history on follow-through with various schools, but recognize also that what happened in State College isn't even on the same planet with the violations at Miami, Oregon or Ohio (among others). While I am not entirely sure what to expect from the NCAA, if they wanted to use this particular principle, it's definitely applicable.
You still don't get it.
and you're not the only one, but this argument makes no sense at all.
The NCAA rulebook details actions that are not permitted to gain a competitive advantage. It only specifies activites that are lawful. It doesn't detail criminal activities because they don't need to. By their very nature, all of them give an unfair advantage. A single ethical conduct section is the logical way to address criminal behavior. I can't imagine reading a rulebook that detailed every possible criminal act that would also be against NCAA rules.
One thing that should be relevant to the NCAA is whether the criminal acts either benefitted the program or were intended to. Sandusky's crimes did nothing to help PSU and the NCAA should not be acting on them. PSU's coverup was designed, at least in part, to maintain the sterling reputation of their football program. Since they actively used that reputation in their recruiting it has rightly become an NCAA matter.
Punishment is necessary for Penn State. The only reason why a child molester was allowed to have unrestricted access to multiple victims was because the leadership of the university placed the reputation of the football program above the safety of young boys. It is more than appropriate to take a step back and put the importance of the Penn State football program in perspective as to how important it really is.
Well if the Big Ten needs to fill Penn States spots in the schedule there is always the possibility of playing fcs se, fcs ne, fcs sw, orr fcs nw. The great thing is the schools can play multiple games in the same day too.
The B10 should go hands-off on PSU players. A feeding frenzy would look awful.
The penalty is not redundant. Brian is way wrong here. Just because a program faces legal issues doesn't protect them from NCAA punishment. That reasoning is illogical. The NCAA is free to punish for program-related infractions, among them lack of institutional control. This was the quintessential example of same.
I don't think you and Brian are talking about the same thing. You are talking about what the NCAA can do, a legalistic argument. If I understood Brian correctly, he was talking about what the NCAA should (or should not) do, a moral / ethical argument. I still disagree with Brian, though. I do think the NCAA should be involved.
but potentially significant loss of scholarships and a multiple year bowl ban.
Paterno family has released a statement onthe statue coming down and they continue to not know to JUST SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!
Tremendous, Taco Pants, Bolivia, The Horror, etc.
So.... who won the Elite 11?
The land grant trophy just won't mean as much for them this year....
I was wondering what the death penalty this year would do to the conference schedule since we are one of four teams who does not play Penn State. (For instance, who would go to the conference title game? 7-1 Michigan or 6-1 Nebraska?) But it seemed doubtful anyway.
I'll tune in tomorrow but it will likely be nothing more than scholarship losses and bowl bans.
TV bans are no longer an option in 2012 no matter how big of a scandal it is.
I haven't read all of the comments, so apologies if this was said, but,
I'm thinking that Hoke should have his number on speed dial. We could desperately use a talented non true freshman body at DE.
I was thinking the same thing, honestly. The kids playing there on offensive or defensive line will have plenty of opportunities to play for another B1G school because of all the recent coaching changes
Also: CJ Olaniyan is from Warren for whatever that's worth.
Those who committed the crimes are long gone. The few, the loathsome few, are now either dead, in forced retirement, and/or without hope for a future. Why, then, are we talking about punishing the university as a whole for the crimes of a few people??
If it was wrong(as many in academia today say) to punish the Germans and Japanese for acts FAR worse than what the Penn State administration did then why is it okay to destroy PSU football? This punishment is nothing less than cruel and unusual.
Anyone who supports or advocates for PSU football destruction is a person guided not by reason or justice, but by pure vengeance. A mind guided by reason can readily see that the crimes here were npt those of the PSU community, but by a few who represented said community. If we establish the precedent that an entire community can and ought to be punished for the crimes of their leaders then we Americans ought to prepare ourselves for a hellfire unlike few countries have ever seen.
I think we need to remove the disgust and horror at Sandusky's crimes from the equation when discussing what ought or what ough not to be done to PSU.
Jerry Sandusky should die. Those who aided and abetted him should be in jail.That is my belief. But that is where the punishment ends in my estimation. Punishing others who had nothing to do or benefitted in any way from these crimes is simply wrong.
By that reasoning no organization should ever be punished for the acts of individuals. Do you think the SEC should punish Goldman Sachs when its employees commit securities fraud? Should Southwest Airlines be fined when one of its maintenance managers doesn't perform required maintenance on its fleet?
If organizations couldn't be punished for the acts of individuals every organization would simply create a firewall around the part of the organization that was cheating. Organizations are punished so they don't have incentive to commit crimes.
countries for many years after the war. Individuals were arrested and tried for war crimes. Some were put to death and others imprisoned. But the occupation did indeed impact the culture of both countries. The Allies imposed their will so that these countries would not rise again to do the horrible deeds they had done.
Penn State needs the NCAA, Government, victims lawsuits to all come down on a culture that neglected human rights and thought football was more important. As of this morning there two people interviewed by ESPN who said it was wrong to take down the statue. Nothing was said about the victims. When are the victims going to be given sympathy and due consideration.
Don't people get it. The culture at Penn State needs to change. That school cares more for football than human rights. Maybe not all, but not all Germans were Nazis either. Still the penalties must be given to all.
Question: Were you home-schooled? Or an only-child?
Hmmmm . . . So you are saying that the NCAA needs to occupy the PSU athletic department? They then can put in their own administration they can control?
BTW - The fate two countries and their citizens far outshadows what happens to an entertainment entity. I have a hard time finding any correlation between WWII and the PSU scandal. Germany, Japan, and much of the world needed to be rebuilt for the betterment of the world's population. The citizens of the world were starving, without housing, medical treatment. Major cities were destroyed. People were killed because of their heritage and beliefs. A new weapon that could destroy a city and kill thousands of people had just been used. The fairness of what happens to a group of players who were getting an education in exchange for playing a game pales in comparison to the atrocities of WWII.
I will play this game anyway. The Allies took over Germany and installed their form of government to change the culture (and protect themselves). I'll give you anther thing to ponder: when was the last time Japan had a strong military? The culture of what happened was changed. If the culture of PSU is changed, it can and will survive without football.
Your logic fails in multiple ways. First, don't compare this to WWII. Second, if you must draw the comparison, you should understand that Germany and Japan continued to be punished (directly and indirectly) for many years. Third, if you don't punish an offender for crimes committed previously -- and all punishment necessarily comes after the crime occurs, sometimes many years after -- then how do you deter future infractions? It's the only way. Otherwise, PSU just gets away with it.
DEATH PENALTY BITCHES.
This is worst. Penn State still has a team, but with nothing to play for over half a decade, and with how gutted scholarships may be, theyll be fielding a DII team.
...agree not to complain that the NCAA sanctions against PSU naturally favor Ohio State? Because that would be missing the point.
I actually feel bad for the employees of penn state that have had nothing to do with any of this. The AD of compliance and their staff members lives will be a living hell for the next few years. Imagine getting hired on for a job and being completely excited about it, then 2 years later this stuff rolls out. The amount of work that a compliance officer has to do under a probationary period is horrible. At Regional Rules the year after Indiana got hit with their sanctions their employees looks like they had been going through a war. They had to feel like as if everyone was judging them and they had done nothing wrong. An intern found all of the violations and the compliance office immediately turned it into the NCAA, but people still judge them. It's sad.
When you are the person/team that has to deal with it, you will come or on the other end looking better. Clearly, so many people who played no role will be the ones left to restore some sort of pride. It won't happen now, or a year from now, but most of those people will go through the shit days and at least know they can do something to restore pride to the school they love. Our society tears people down, but also loves a comeback...
I am the first to jump all over the culture that was created at PSU, but I believe most of the alumni are proud and know there is no other choice, then to take what is dished out. They need to take their penalty. Not bitch about it..and move forward to be what they all thought they already were. Those people doing that work will ultimately be gratified.
(am I a pollyanna??)
What a mess he voluntarily stepped into.
A new twist: now their own university president is viewed as one of the villains.
A lot of "I can't believe....". Total delusions by the PSU faithful.
agree. They are not a caring bunch to say the least. Open up you mind and your eyes PSU faithful. Look what reps from your school did. Damn. This isn't brain surgery. There were little children involved in all of this. PSU is starting to cry out like they are the victims. NOT.